 Poster: A snowHead
|
Noticed that in various threads many posters appear to focus more on equipment than building skills. A sort of "Buying new kit is cool but lessons are for absolute beginners" view.
The trend is for fatter skis especially when skiing offpiste - nothing wrong with that, I have also bought wider skis within the last 2 years. We are also there to have fun so everyone is entitled to strap to their feet what gives them the most fun.
Having said that I'm seeing a trend whereby some skiers (often British) who can't ski that well on piste are picking up wide 110mm skis and hoping that the week they go skiing will be blessed with fresh powder. Now in places such as Japan or west coast USA there might be daily fresh snowfall but more often than not in Europe the big Powder dump doesn't happen and these skiers spend a week scrapping around on the hard pistes. Very good skiers often have problems getting wide skis to perform on piste - lower level skiers have a very slim chance of getting more than a scrape out of these skis.
Can't help thinking these skiers would advance better, have more fun and be better skiers in the long term if they focussed more on skills than equipment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
You finally noticed the UK are a nation of back-seat punters that generally don't get the chance to ski very much ?
Talk a good game over dinner and think they are experts after they hack down a black piste in Meribel or Verbier.... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
DB, there is some definite truth in what you say. By the same token, there are those skiers who enjoy having the latest gear and also spend lots of money on instruction. The Scandis must be the worst gear whores out there! The difference is, they can ski really well.
With regards to inappropriate skis, since there is no silver bullet (i.e. one ski that is perfect for all conditions and all terrain), at some point everyone's skis will be inappropriate. You just learn the quirks of your skis and how to ski them on everything, no matter how fat/thin or long/short they are. It just doesn't matter.
What does matter is instruction. I'm firmly in the camp of spending money on improving technique and skills to better enjoy myself all over the mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Most of them would have more fun if they burnt the cash on lift passes and lessons rather than stuff, it's true. No telling them that though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I don't get to ski much, so I sate my thirst for powder by buying kit and hanging round internet ski forums during the down time - which tends to be the vast majority of the year.
I am not alone 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Just signing in to my personal thread
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Perhaps it's because equipment questions are easier to ask on a forum than technique questions? I know the plural of ancedote is not evidence but I've had three weeks on the snow so far this season, about 20 hours of instruction and have just purchased a pair of new skis. I've started two threads about the skis but not really mentioned any details of the instruction.
New equipment and working on technique are not always mutually exclusive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Zero-G wrote: |
With regards to inappropriate skis, since there is no silver bullet (i.e. one ski that is perfect for all conditions and all terrain), at some point everyone's skis will be inappropriate. You just learn the quirks of your skis and how to ski them on everything, no matter how fat/thin or long/short they are. It just doesn't matter.
. |
It is not just skis, Brits are boot fixated too spending huge amounts of money tweaking and twiddling when the problem a lot of them have is just being unfit, fat or lacking in skills.
No ski will be perfect but an 80-85mm width ski will ski most euro off piste and on piste well. I was skiing heavy powder on 65mm GS Slalom skis a couple of weeks ago and I'm far from an advanced skier.
BTW I think it is actually a marketing myth that the US gets a fresh dump of powder every night. Certainly the Yanks I know tell me it is nonsense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Whatever makes you feel superior to the next guy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
many posters appear to focus more on equipment than building skills.
|
| Quote: |
Brits are boot fixated too spending huge amounts of money tweaking and twiddling
|
I used to make this point a lot, we certainly are Gear hounds (i'm guilty of it too, i vindicate myself by saying i am a local and work in the industry but it's all bull i don't need it, I want it), I guess it's fun to have cool stuff, I downhill bike as well and trust me british downhillers are even worse. I think though, a big point is that if you are already spending a few grand to get your family out there, wasting your precious holiday and risking the weather then spending a bit extra to make sure your kit is not going to let you down is more understandable!
bit too easy to fall into the "need new stuff every year" hole and far too hard to get out!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Zero-G wrote: |
| no matter how fat/thin or long/short |
Oh and, gentlemen, this is the only time where technique is everything and size doesn't matter. Just sayin'
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm guessing for most Brit holiday skiers their one week a year is pretty much the only skiing they will do in a year so oogling and buying kit keeps them feeling connected to skiing. Technique even if you got rigorous instruction every year is going to plateau well below someone that skis a lot with that little practice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
^this
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
meh, +1 - no-one could suggest that taking up tennis or golf (possibly at an "advanced" age) and practising for 6 days in a row once a year would let you rapidly become competent...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
DB, any hard facts about brits "all the gear no idea" - a tad racists I think. Whilst I agree concentrating on technique over gear, for some people that only get out once or twice a year a big part of their skiing experience are the new skis, boots, gadgets, etc. I see plenty of skiers around ski amade that are on wannabe race skis, most are not Brits as only 2% (read that recently but can't find reference now) of skiers in Ski Amade are Brits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
And just to shed some light on the other side of the coin, it's French school hols and Chamonix is filled French holidaymakers. I've never seen so many fartbags, rear entry boots and skinny skis and they are still poor skiers. So meh's point is closest to the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Zero-G, the French just don't have the same tat-buying habit as the British and Americans do generally, possibly because consumer credit is a lot less available. Don't know what they're doing with their dosh though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I like trying different skis, and if i don't like them just sell them, different tunes, different boot centre positions on them its all part of the fun (but have had the same model boot for the last 14 years! a few liners and 2 new shells but same model) instruction is also part of the fun as well, and keeping my core strength up which seems the most important bit to be honest.............
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Zero-G, the French just don't have the same tat-buying habit as the British and Americans do generally, possibly because consumer credit is a lot less available. Don't know what they're doing with their dosh though. |
The French prefer to spend their money on things they will enjoy : vin rouge, packet of gauloise fags and a decent 3 course lunch
FWIW : Plenty of punter skiers from Paris too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
meh, I think you are right. Also it's nice have nice things. I tend not splash my cash without thought, but I am not adverse to a bargain, and will pay what I need to if I really need something. For example, last season it was necessary to buy a jacket that fitted  The only one that fitted was a Schoffel so that's what I got [ouch! went the bank balance!]. When I needed a helmet, the only one that fitted with sufficient build quality to be worth the cash was a No Fear one from Sports direct for £14 so that's what I got. Bargain wise I got offered a steal on a top quality set of skis this year, so I bought them, I also sprung for new boots - which I admit was a bit of a treat, but I hope they will help me to ski better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Lizzard wrote: |
| the French just don't have the same tat-buying habit as the British and Americans do generally, possibly because consumer credit is a lot less available. Don't know what they're doing with their dosh though. |
In other words, they don't spend money they don't have. And rightly so. The whole credit card culture is collective insanity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I have two perfickly good jackets. But just realised that my daughter and daughter-in-law will both be borrowing gear from me at Easter. Which seems to leave me with absolutely no choice but to buy a new jacket. What a bummer. The newer of my two jackets (Head, expensive jacket but super bargain in Filarinski dutch auction) has only done 3 seasons. Will have a look round out in France next week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you earn it for the rest of the year it's surely up to you what you spend it on for the other weeks isn't it ?
Whether or not you buy the stuff with money you haven't got wasn't, if I understand it, the point of the thread (not that there really was one  )
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| DB wrote: |
| Can't help thinking these skiers would advance better, have more fun and be better skiers in the long term if they focussed more on skills than equipment. |
These two points aren't mutually exclusive. I'd advocate both.
And to be honest, for around £1,000 you'd be able to get fitted, customised go faster boots and a pair of boutique skis. I'd guess that a set of golf bats would be similar, cycling would only get you a mid range shed and it just doesn't compare to the cost of horse/motor/boat related sports.
It's all about SKS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Kit is there to do a job and gets replaced when it's no longer fit for purpose. I'm still on my first pair of boots (circa 2006) and am loath to replace them because they're comfortable and still work. My skis are only 2 years old (although they've done 8 weeks in that time) and are nowhere near due for replacement. I'll only replace my jacket, salopettes, gloves, socks, helmet etc when they're too torn/theadbare/cracked to keep me warm/dry/safe.
Money is much better spent on ski trips 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Mosha Marc wrote: |
And to be honest, for around £1,000 <snip> cycling would only get you a mid range shed <snip> |
No, you can get a pretty sturdy shed for £1000. You wouldn't be able to afford a bike to go in it though
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I need big skis to compensate for other things.
In all seriosuness though, if I could only have one pair of skis for everything, I'd stick with my 118mm Bibby Pros. Icey pistes suck, and given their battered state (heavy use over the last three seasons with only service means bases and edges are screwed, and the flex/tortional rigidity is going now too) any sort of firm snow now requires a lot of concentration (they were a lot better when new), skinning is hard work but not too bad, but their versatility still amazes me. In anything soft (crud/tracked/corn/slush), and the feeling (like surfing) they give in powder (20-70+cm of fresh delivered the night before) is sssssoooooooo much better than any sort of compromise ski (also have 97mm tip and tail rockered Nordicas) that I couldn't give them up. I'll gladly deal with lesser performance elsewhere to keep that feeling in those conditions - which I find much more than is often suggested in Europe. It's not that other skinnier skis are hard to ski in powder, they're not, it's easy, but they just don't give the same sensations and feeling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Just to pick up on a few points .....
The title of the thread isn't a statement but a question.
Maybe it's because I'm British that I notice my fellow countrymen / women more and so have a biased opinion on how Brits compare to skiers of other nationalities.
Meh raises a very fair point although I suspect Elstons solution (more time on the slope, even if it is only dry or in a snowdome and less time in the shop) will give them more fun in the long run.
I agree with waynos too, whereas other nationalities will tend to buy "race" skis and ski badly, in my experience Brits are more likely to turn up with something really wide and end up having to ski the piste which doesn't bring their technique much further. The guys/gals on the TGR forum are probably skiing a lot lighter powder than is normally found in Europe so have a greater need for wide skis.
Suspect that in many other countries people who are serious about skiing go for lessons, kit and fitness training (as is the case with many snowheads) or skimp in all areas. Do other nationalities have many "dressed for the part skiers" who spend their training budget in the Apres ski bars?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
Do other nationalities have many "dressed for the part skiers" who spend their training budget in the Apres ski bars?
|
Russians, Italians, pretty much everyone in Courchevel 1850. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
DB, do you have nice stuff? (edit: actually applying this question to everybody)
and if so, at what point is it ok to have nice stuff?
I need to check as all my stuff has to be the best!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Lizzard,
Ah yes I tend not to ski where there are Russians and Wayneos about.
dulcamara,
All you need to know is - my stuff is better than yours and that's what counts
Seriously I'm not saying people shouldn't have nice stuff but if the long term goal is to improve your skiing then having suitable equipment to best aid that improvement along with spending money on training/snow time makes more sense to me. As opposed to just buying a quiver of snow specific skis to make up for deficiencies in fitness and skill.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 12-03-13 14:35; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| DB wrote: |
| Suspect that in many other countries people who are serious about skiing go for lessons, kit and fitness training (as is the case with many snowheads) or skimp in all areas. |
Holy generalisations, batman. Is everyone really the same where you come from?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
buying a quiver of snow specific skis to make up for deficiencies in fitness and skill
|
My 5 pairs of skis might agree with you!... but I NEED them all !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I see no evidence to suggest that people spend so much on toys that they don't have enough money for lessons.
When we were the guys in "Rodeo" gear people presumably daubed inverse thoughts on the walls of their caves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DB wrote: |
, whereas other nationalities will tend to buy "race" skis and ski badly, in my experience Brits are more likely to turn up with something really wide and end up having to ski the piste which doesn't bring their technique much further. The guys/gals on the TGR forum are probably skiing a lot lighter powder than is normally found in Europe so have a greater need for wide skis.
|
This is a bit of a 'who cares' kind if thread. Most Brit punters I see ski on whatever crap the rental shop has doled out to them and have no more idea about kit than they would about the spec of the bus that brought them from the airport.
As others have pointed out as its hard to travel with a quiver that is perfect for all circumstances inevitably stuff will be suboptimal a lot of the time. Your guy skidding around on fat skis on early morning hard pack might well we laughing it up later in the day when you've long since quit as it's 'too slushy'. The reason Brits don't take more lessons IMO is down to a few factors including historical ally poor experiences, limited time on snow and realistically limited opportunity to get significantly better at a sport you only do once a year.
That said if you're going to buy something mid fat (110mm) upwards then punt around on groomers everyday then you're a bit of an idiot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
DB, you state a trend towards Brit skiers on wide skis - is that based on what you see in resort or what folks post on SH's. Are the majority of Brit skiers on wide skis - say 90mm+ underfoot? I started on 68cm, my mags were 78, my new skis 76mm. Surley the majority of folks skiing on-piste aren't on much wider than that sort of ski? and I would suggest that there are more that still ski on-piste than off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Serriadh wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| Suspect that in many other countries people who are serious about skiing go for lessons, kit and fitness training (as is the case with many snowheads) or skimp in all areas. |
Holy generalisations, batman. Is everyone really the same where you come from? |
I come from Manchester init; and no, some are City some are United supporters.
Of course at least one Austrian I know is gear crazy. Rather than spending more time trying to ski a paticular snow condition he is more likely to reach for his wallet and order another pair of skis. It doesn't improve his technique much but it makes it easier for him in difficult conditions. Another Austrian I know doesn't have much money and so has to ski everything on the same old crappy skis but he skis much better because of this. I don't know any Austrians that buy equipment just to look the part and talk it up at Apres though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
