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Why aren't we all skiing in boots full of custard?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
RattytheSnowRat, There are also those folks, that are 1-2 week a year skiers who are less informed than me who will happily grab boots from the internet/the special offer merchants at the ski show and if they seem comfy will happily go and ski in them for a week and if they come home without bruised feet will probably happily ski in their boots into the future with no thought to improve things.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Heard in a ski shop in Colorado a few years back:
10 yr old girl - 'mommy when can I get new boots ?'
mother - 'when those boots get comfortable'.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've got a pair of the Technica air shell boots, and for bog standard interimidiot me, they are very good.
The insulation benefit is not to be sniffed at, although I do have to give them more airing after a holiday than my old Salomons, however that might just be middle age ...

The rear heel balloon I find is most useful, keeps the heel locked in place without having to ratchet up the buckles

Im sure the purists will tell me that they will burst, deflate at altitude, valve will stop working etc
But they work for me, and they cost me £110 new from Decathlon 2 years ago,n compared to the €345 in Brides this weekend that they were going for
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Just googled - they look nice!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Wobbler wrote:
Just googled - they look nice!

But tecnica have discontinued this technology fro next season, so you better buy now Toofy Grin
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I've snagged a pair of the Technicas already but have yet to do more than try them on as I am skiing in others at present.

I cannot believe they are ditching this tech AGAIN! As sev112, said there are distinct benefits, the rear heel balloon alone is a great, great help.

For the avoidance of doubt I skiied this tech for years in Nordica Syntech Air's and I suspect that it was only the rubber perishing in one bladder due to age and wear and tear that casued one boot to fail nearly two decades after I bought them. I still ski them sometimes when I want a stress free piste day as they stand up well until you start cranking up the pace (and then only becasue the shell was not designed to take the abuse I give them). I expect the Technica's to surpass the Nordicas and will be putting apiar into vaccuum storage if they do indeed discontinue this tech across their lines. In fact I like it so much I have just bought a pair of plain vanilla Syntechs of the same vinatge and colour so that I can re-fit broken or tired bits on my Syntech Airs - that's how much I like them.

I've got Technica Phoenix 12 Air Shell but this blurb is for another in the range about the tech:

"The Tecnica Phoenix Max 10 Air Shell Ski Boots allow you to slide in, inflate the cushiony cloud surrounding your feet, and take off with hours of perfect comfort ahead of you. The Air Shell System on these men's boots inflates to provide extra support, but since it's air it conforms perfectly to your feet without hard pressure points. This trapped air also makes the Phoenix Max 10 warmer, so you can stay out longer. Everything on this boot is adjustable, so you can be sure you have the perfect setup before you head out into the wilderness."
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
RattytheSnowRat, not a case of if they discontinue, the information was given to me by their UK sales manager at a trade show in Munich in January, it IS discontinued
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
CEM, what do you think of these please? The idea sounds perfect to me - and you can still use whichever liner you prefer I guess?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Wobbler, personally (and i will stick my neck out here and say many boot fitters will agree) it isn't a great thing, if the boot fits the foot then there should be no need for air pockets, i have had a load of grief from Tecnica about my views on this product so i expect some more soon

from a fitting point of view it was a nightmare, PITA to work on as you have to try and move the bladders out the way of any area you need to get at, but for some reason mid level skiers think it is great, maybe because many have only experienced this or an over sized boot prior to it, and yes it enables you to make the boot tighter, but you shouldn't need to if the boot fits well in the first place

you use the liner that comes with the boot, it won't be any better/worse with an after market liner

not a lot more to say
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Megamum, often it's not so much 'freebie' as heavily discounted. Some bright spark in the marketing department of one of the big ski companies worked out that plonking a set of their planks on the feet of every ESF instructor would be the greatest advertising EVER since a group of rental skiers would be staring in their general direction for most of the day and being told to copy what the skis were doing. We all know that you could plonk the instructors on the cheapest set of skis going and they could make them look good to this audience BUT the rental/novices don't know that so they conciously or unconciously associate those skis with what they are trying to achieve and have a tendency to try and buy that brand, if not that actual ski. The big companies offer direct deals to the agencies like ESF free or at 'cost'. I'll bet a number of the pairs of skis that end up on here came via that route.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks CEM, appreciate your thoughts. I hope I haven't got you into more trouble! wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have a slightly different problem: the joint that allows my big toe to bend upward is totally destroyed, limiting the amount of flex. I am unable to force my foot into normal 4-buckle boots. I have some elderly Nordica Syntech Air (like Ratty mentioned -- one bladder is blown, but that's not a problem) 4-buckle boots with a "walk" feature (big knob in the back that sort of flips out and allows the rear part of the boot to move backward roughly 3 inches) which are satisfactory provided I put some thin foam over my ankle to prevent concentrated pressure from the tightening adjustment. I fear I'll have to give up skiing if something happens to these boots.

Anybody making anything like this now?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
TheRealBev wrote:
the joint that allows my big toe to bend upward is totally destroyed, limiting the amount of flex. I am unable to force my foot into normal 4-buckle boots.


Is the problem that your toe joint prevents you from getting the boot on? Or is the problem that the boot is uncomfortable when you are wearing it?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wobbler,
If your having problems you cant resolve , try boarding................the boots are sooooooooo comfy, its well worth the transition Smile
,
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Yes, I can't get my left boot on. If I can get the boot (some standard Nordica 4-buckle boot) on, it's too loose at the tightest setting. I put in a 3/8-inch footbed insert (home-made) that worked OK with my more-or-less normal right foot, but I couldn't stuff my left foot in.

Mitchell -- Boarding looks interesting and I might consider it were it not for the fact that I see many young boarders sitting down -- presumably tired. I'm collecting Social Security and I get tired a LOT sooner than they do.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
TheRealBev, there's a good choice of touring/WTR boots on the market which would allow you to put the boot on with the cuff unlocked & rotated to the rear. Have you been to a good boot fitter? Go & see CEM.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
TheRealBev,

What spyderjon said.

Also might be worth looking at a higher volume 3 part boot with a tongue. Something like the Full Tilt Mary Jane. Pivoting the tongue forward may make it easier for you to get the boot on

Boots also exist with a fold forward tongue and a walk mode, although the only one I can think of that would fit in a conventional alpine binding is the discontinued Garmont Xena.

If you don't mind the expense of buying skis with a touring binding, then there are loads of boots available with both a tongue and a walk mode.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
how many weeks have you skied? 1,...... how many weeks do you ski each season? 1 ....what level of run are you happiest on? BLACK......what are your aspirations as a skier? "already and advanced skier thank you!" (YES THAT WAS WRITTEN ON AN EVAL FORM)


Incidentally, that is EXACTLY what I am going to put on my form when I see you on Saturday Very Happy
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Needs a bit of modification - you clearly want to put Denali/Everest as your level of run and identify that you are the best skier on any mountain you are on.

I know I do in rental shops so the guys know to give me the special not ordinary punter stuff (retrieved from the skip out back).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Oceanic wrote:
TheRealBev,

What spyderjon said.

Also might be worth looking at a higher volume 3 part boot with a tongue. Something like the Full Tilt Mary Jane. Pivoting the tongue forward may make it easier for you to get the boot on

Boots also exist with a fold forward tongue and a walk mode, although the only one I can think of that would fit in a conventional alpine binding is the discontinued Garmont Xena.

If you don't mind the expense of buying skis with a touring binding, then there are loads of boots available with both a tongue and a walk mode.


I didn't know there were 3-part boots. One more thing to think about Sad

The touring setup seems like WAYYY overkill given the nature of the skiing I do -- Snow Summit in SoCal, with perhaps one trip to Brian Head/year.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Or look for a modern version of the rear-entry:

http://www.head.com/ski/products/boots/all-day/
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
TheRealBev,

Quote:

I see many young boarders sitting down -- presumably tired.



They're not tired. They're just passing a spliff around.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I might hang out with 'boarders more.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
That explains their proclivity for sitting out in the middle of a run just beyond the lip and invisible to everyone up the hill. I gave my grandspawn boarding lessons at Mountain High (the ghetto of SoCal) because it was cheaper than the Big Bear resorts. I figured there isn't a lot of skill involved in beginner lessons. The skinny kid caught on, the heavy one had a miserable time, and NEITHER of them was told about stopping at the edge of the run or being aware that they have a blind side.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
As an aside, I have often noticed that the people who spend their life clipping/unclipping their boots and complaining about how uncomfortable their boots are are all too often the people who have had their boots custom fitted.

I am not sure if this is just a view taken from a small unrepresentative sample, or whether:

1. Custom boot fitting is a rather hit and miss affair. (I am sure this is part of the answer)
2. The people who get boots custom fitted have feet that are not a 'standard' shape and will consequently always struggle.
3. Only experts get their boots custom fitted and they expect far tighter fitting boots than intermidiots like me.

Any thoughts?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
foxtrotzulu, not sure about the only experts comment, however it is often true that many people have ski boots that are two loose, the trick is to know the difference between a firmly held foot and a tightly held foot !
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
TheRealBev wrote:

I didn't know there were 3-part boots. One more thing to think about Sad

The touring setup seems like WAYYY overkill given the nature of the skiing I do -- Snow Summit in SoCal, with perhaps one trip to Brian Head/year.


Dalbello make 3 piece boots for 'normal' skiers. http://www.dalbello.it/en/technology-cabrio-design Plenty of dealers in California.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
foxtrotzulu wrote:

1. Custom boot fitting is a rather hit and miss affair. (I am sure this is part of the answer)
2. The people who get boots custom fitted have feet that are not a 'standard' shape and will consequently always struggle.
3. Only experts get their boots custom fitted and they expect far tighter fitting boots than intermidiots like me.

Any thoughts?


All of the above! Though I might change 'experts' in number 3 to 'experienced skiers'.

You have to get to a certain level of experience before it dawns on you that:

1. There's slop in your boots
2. This might not be ideal
3. If you had better fitting boots you might ski better

and so starts the highly addictive process of believing that buying better equipment every year will transform your skiing....




(It does help of course, but the real answer is to do a season or two and get some decent instruction. There's no substitute for time on snow.)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
D G Orf wrote:
foxtrotzulu, not sure about the only experts comment, however it is often true that many people have ski boots that are two loose, the trick is to know the difference between a firmly held foot and a tightly held foot !


And I learnt that difference today when trying out my shiny new Redster WC 110s Very Happy

foxtrotzulu, I wouldn't agree with any of those 3 points.

1. Getting a perfect pair of custom boots first time round is very unlikely. No bootfitter can tell what your skiing style is like just by standing in your boots. You need to use them, and more than likely, they will require some fine tuning afterwards (if they really are a complete miss then I would have questions about your bootfitter!). When I first started skiing, I didn't even consider going for a second visit when I got my Tecnica Phoenix 90s, because they were perfectly comfortable, and have been for the past 3 years I have used them. BUT my ankle was not snug at all and this transpired that was because my boot was one size too big. So this really played havoc with my stance. Until today, I didn't realise how much. Second time around, I am much wiser. I picked up my Redsters yesterday, and have just spent 3 hours in Hemel using them. The only issue I have with the so far is that the heel in the left boot does not pinch as well as the right, so I have a little heel lift. Doesn't mean I'm on the phone to the bootfittter asap! wink I plan to use them once or twice more before doing that, just to be sure it isn't me, and give myself time to fully adjust to the boot.

2. Ironically, I would say that anyone who doesn't get custom boots will struggle to raise their game in skiing. No one has the perfect alignment, foot shape, etc. An experienced bootfitter worth his salt, I would think, would be able to cater for almost everyone. If you have 7 or 8 toes on one foot, then you are part of a small minority who are screwed, and should donate your feet to medical research.

3. In my eyes, your ski boots are the most important bit of kit. They are transmission for your skis! Custom boots are not just limited to experts, but anyone who wants to be able to ski comfortably, and more importantly, ski correctly (that is not to say you can't ski well without a custom boot, but you can only go so far with a standard fitting boot). Think of it like a sports car: stock model works well, but the tuned model is always going to be perform better. That doesn't mean it will automatically transform your skiing (this doesn't apply to my redstars obviously, because wearing these boots means I am Marcel Hirscher, the advert said so wink). You still need the technique! But a custom boot will supplement it. A custom boot does not mean it is going to be tight like a vice either. It means it will be snug. Which, unless someone disagrees, I think all skiers look for in a boot. Except racers, who love to have a vice on each foot, and a heel pinch that feels like a crab's pincer is on the end of it Very Happy

If you ski once every year, or even two years, I would still get custom boots. Might sound expensive, but most people would end up keeping a boot like that for many, many years. Until you realise that you are performing much better with these custom boots. Which in turns wants you to perform better, and as a consequence you get the bug. Then start buying new kit on a regular basis. At this point your accountant (if you have one), will intervene and point out that you will not be able to pay off the mortgage that month, or feed the cat. Ignore.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
c0Ka|Ne, I am sure you are right on all counts, but I can't help feeling I am a bit right too.

Then again, the purpose of my boots is to try to isolate all my erroneous inputs from the perfectly made sks that would do far better without me interfering at all. I want a pair of Ugg ski boots!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
c0Ka|Ne, Always used Atomic liners for years no problem, Redsters have brought my feet out in allergic reaction in heel ankle areas
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ugg ski boots! Where is the vomit emoticon?? Razz

Cynic, that is weird! Did you ever find out what caused it?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
c0Ka|Ne, Don't worry, I wouldn't be seen dead in Uggs. I just meant something loose and floppy.
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Cynic, My old boot liners packed down mid season after approx 150 days skiing in them and then I smashed a buckle off in a crash. I managed to get an appointment with a guy who spends most of his time working on the race circuit (some very big names as satisfied customers) and he firstly confirmed that my old Nordica Superchargers (as supplied by our own ex smallzookeeper) were a very good boot and suited to my foot shape. He put me in Atomic Redsters but I decided to go for the foam injection liner. Love them with added emphasis. Comfy from day two (after two slight pressure points due to an old ankle injury were blown out slightly) yet hold me feet like a vice. I prefer the medium flex (GS) inserts but by god, they don't half give me confidence that my narrow heels won't slop around Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Is there much difference between the medium flex and the stiff (SL) flex? Worth getting?
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