Snowboarding: how bad is the slide?

A snowHead

There's no doubt now that the snowboarding market - about 30 years young - the first serious equipment appeared in the late 1970s but the market didn't really gain traction until the mid-late 1980s (advent of steel edges, quality boots and bindings) - is wobbling. At the recent ISPO global sports trade fair in Munich - the key launchpad for 2013-4 hardware - snowboarding had a massive presence in terms of stand-space and footfall, but the fear was a sharp decline in orders. Slopes not far from Munich - the major accessible ski areas of Austria - are seeing a significant decline in snowboarder numbers. There's more than a murmur that snowboarding is not doing the business any more.

Recent media reports in the US prove statistical evidence of a decline, measured over recent years ...

http://www.rocklintoday.com/news/templates/golf_and_ski.asp?articleid=11435&zoneid=89
http://travel.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/travel/has-snowboarding-lost-its-edge.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

A snowHead

Comedy Goldsmith, it's a bit like the Conservative vote being split into Conservative / UKIP. The snowboard dudes are still out there just that some of them have discovered two planks can be better than one some of the time. Grooming must be having an impact (and I don't mean brushing hair and nose hair tweezering)

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I was chatting to some local youfs in Zell am See a couple of weeks ago, enthused about modern ski technology being so good that some of the original benefits to snowboarding over skiing have diminished.

Snowboarding does have a bit of an image problem. It was so fashionable for a period, and that simply can't always be sustained. I think the NYT article hints at that (maybe more than hints - I read it a week or so ago and don't recall the exact details). Skiing maybe was never so achingly too cool for school that it doesn't suffer in the same way.

Whilst it seems that ski technology improvements genuinely has been game changing, snowboarding has tarted around with technology over a recent years but without really taking things forward. Boards were cambered, then rocker, hybrid camber/rocker, flatline profiles, and seemingly now realising that camber is still where its at after all there are more camber boards on the market again than in the last few (4-5?) years.

That's just trivia for the marketing teams to get their heads around. If you're going to strive to be cool, you've got to accept you won't always be so.

Ageing snowboarders like myself - officially mid-30's Shocked

- probably will be doing our fare share of harm to the cool image

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Mid 40s in my case, but know what you mean, I was practicing at MK a few weeks back and saw a yoof with the same jacket as mine. I bet he returned to the shop that afternoon Little Angel

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Boris, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but as far as 'yoofs' are concerned, you're invisible. Grandad. Laughing

After all it is free

Here in the UK snowboarding is still pretty big. Up at Glencoe and even Yad Moss its often pushing 40%. There also seem to be a lot more Telemarkers in the UK than the alps. In Austria three weeks ago I saw only 3 other TMs during the week.

Perhaps in Britain we're just not as conservative (or UKIP) as our continental cousins. snowHead

To echo what Peter says, from a quick count up from the photos I put on Winterhighland from last Sunday on CairnGorm Mountain, we get:

56% Snowboarding
44% Skiing

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To be honest, this doesn't really worry me. The huge and rapid growth of snowboarding could never be sustained indefinitely and at some point a decline had to come. Things move in cycles - skateboarding has boomed and crashed at least 3 times, but always stays around. Snowboarding will be the same - in a few years, the current generation of cool-kid skiers will be the ones with kids in tow and all of a sudden they won't be so cool anymore and things will turn around again.

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I'd not really noticed a reduction in numbers boarding, but perhaps I'm not that observant. If there is a decline is it because of a reduction in the number of people taking up boarding compared to skiing, or are boarders quitting the sport in larger numbers than skiers?

Doesn't seem to be much reduction in numbers here. Balance was about 50:50 in Whistler in Nov/Dec.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Having recently spent 18 days in Canada, at five different areas, snowboarding is definitely not on the decline, at least as many boarders as skiers at some hills. Plenty of beginners, too.

I'm guessing this might be mainly more of an Alpine thing. So the world, to some.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I think a lot of people get hacked off with it especially if their friends ski: harder to ride lifts, strap in each time, a pain on the flats, uncomfortable to stand and most people board/ski piste and the tray isn't a good hard snow/ice/hardpack tool.

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My daughter is working her 2nd year in VT. When she went out she vowed to improve her boarding instead of spending all season on skis. She's not been on a board all season. When I asked her why she said "Everyone is skiing now" The vast majority of her co-workers are on fat twin tips.
When I was skiing with her and her posse it must have been at least 80% on skis.

(OK, this is only one Alpine resort)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

World's first snowboard - the Snurfer - invented Michigan 1965

World's first ski - invented by Norwegian cave painter, 2000BC

Skiing's just old hat, so I can't see why boarding can't take over with a bit more intelligent thought (rather than the usual knuckle-dragging).

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having been hit (again) by a snowboarder today who apologised with the " sorry lost an edge dude" line I really can't wait for it to die out.

I didn't think this way a while back and was very much of the whatever floats your boat camp, but a few things have changed that:

- skied with an intermediate snowboarder and it was quite painful - off the lifts do up the bindings, flats, sigh...
- Keep getting hit by snowboarders this year. Yes they could be crap skiers too, but I've "really liked" seeing a great tray coming towards me when predictably they've lost it on any sort of marginal surface.
- When skiing with my son, it really is snowboarders who are the thing to watch out for - sorry but it is. They need to keep speed up to avoid walking but this means a lot do so recklessly. Also the stance means they are not really looking where they are going half the time and a small skier just gets missed.
- I really am getting annoyed sking down slopes looking straight into the eyes of a boarder spinning around on a cat-track

Sorry to the good boarders out there.

After all it is free

I have a strong feeling of Deja Lit here Toofy Grin

Wasn't this discussed just a few days ago and someone gave the absolutely obvious (which I hadn't thought of!) answer as to why snowboarding is dying out.

Youfs are on skis not snowboards now, because........ Their parents are on snowboards. simples.

And I concur with sequoiaboard, I was in 3V at the end of january and snowboards were noticably reduced.

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[quote="stevomcd"]

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VT being more skiers than snowboarders has had a few mentions, and its probably worth pointing out that each resort/ski area will have its own natural split, probably influenced by the terrain, typical snow conditions, off-piste options and parks.

Take the 3Vs for example. VT has some weird policies with their snow parks and seem to want to charge lift pass holders an extra fee to use the parks. Much better parks are available in Meribel with no additional fees, so it would be natural for snowboarders interested in hitting some kickers to stay away from VT and ride other parts of the 3V lift system.

(Of course this applies equally to skiers - as parks aren't the exclusive domain of snowboarders, but may have an influence)

On my last trip, whilst staying in Zell am See, I rode the local mountain (Schmittenhoe), Kitzsteinhorn, and Saalbach-Hinterglem. All 3 areas had their own mix of skiers vs. snowboarders. Saalbach - which has a good circuit you can complete in a day was popular with mile hungry skiers, whilst Kitzsteinhorn - with great parks and marked freeride zones - was very popular with snowboarders (pushing close to 50%) - and Schmitten somewhere between the two it seemed.

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Too many people snowboard now, and you know when older people gets involved it's no longer cool. Laughing

Although at local hill (close to urban center so lots of beginners) I see tons of boarders, majority teens.

You know it makes sense.

I think you'll find that it's not a question of "older people gets involved" [sic]. "Older people" like me *started* the sport.

Most of us don't snowboard because you think it's cool. I choose to ride because for most of my riding the snowboard's more challenging and more fun.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

If I was in the position of a total beginner wanting to learn to ski or snowbaord now, with the intention of only ever doing 1 week a year then I would defo ski. WAY easier to pick up and in a few short days you are cruising the blues and easy reds with decent style and speed, barely ever falling over. Contrast that to snowboarding where as a beginner it is a nightmare; constantly falling, hard. Constantly strapping in and out. Walking the flats or ungainly scooting. Having trouble on narrow runs as you need room to turn and can't just chuck in a snowplow to slow you down.

As it is, I love snowboarding off piste and enjoy the movement of it. I don't have ot sit down to stap in, I can ride one foot realativly well so will just keep one foot straped in and push where required if there is a loong crap flat with a few bits of downhill.

I wouldn't change back to skiing now, as to get to the skiing level where I can ride off piste as well as I can on a board I would be looking at a very lengthy process. But if you are just interested in being a blue run hero on hardpack then I really se no reason to board.

A snowHead

I hate to break it to the guys above who 'board but the reason for decline is .... you.

Snowboards took off as a sort of protest against skiing. 14 year old boys could go on the family holiday but not have to traipse around with the parents all day and hang with other equally cool kids. Most important - you could be better than your dad at it in a season. For 14 year old boys now, people older than their father are there and doing it better (after 25 years of practice) and therefore it is most def not cool anymore since all the cool bits have been usurped by crumblies.

No amount of kit progression is going to unwind the fact that snowboarding is now mainstream and therefore something your old man would - and possibly has - tried.

It's over, suck it up and move back to the true winter focused progressive tool - ski's. Face it - skiiers rock!

And, Admin, please take this post to the backwater thread on the Forum that was set up to host this type of marginal stuff. Very Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

This 'it's not cool because your Dad does it' argument has a big hole in it. The majority of parents out there are skiers, so if kiddies take up one sport or the other purely to irritate the olds you'd still expect to see more teen boarders than skiers.

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...so what we're saying here is that snowboarding has reached a level of equilibrium - where all the have-a-go heroes, piste poseurs, fashionistas and one hit wonders are quitting and returning to their more natural, 2-plank state...

The future seems brighter. Toofy Grin

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Lizzard, yeah, isn't it?

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After all it is free

Ooh, decrying fashionistas and then immediately go into a sarky comment about the way people look and dress.
You're right about one thing Ratty, skiers do seem to be able turn about quicker than snowboarders...

Clearly this has just turned into the usual utterly f-ing tedious 'ooh, boarding is so rubbish, skiing is much better, no it isn't' claptrap.

What is it about middle aged skiers that makes them so insecure in their own choices that they have to get all tribal about the way they slide down hills on bits of plastic during their holidays? Freaks. Laughing

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tbh I could care less - it's just fun poking 'boarders and seeing the reaction.

Neither's better than the other, they are different sports that occupy the same mountain space with a number of others. If you get a kick out of any of them, more power to you.

Being serious for a second, I do think there is some mileage in the 'it isn't cool any more' argument. Look at skateboarding and in-line skating, especially the latter. They are both way off the highs at which they once stood and have now settled into a minor sports slot with a few die hard adherents. They may resurge again (still waiting for the hula hoop to sustian that leap) but I would not hold your breath.

The reality is that the initial surge was ‘cool’ driven and that is now gone. The sport will settle back into reduced participant numbers and will be none the worse for it. A few marginal snowboard manufacturers will decide that the space no longer justifies their participation and the remainder will consolidate. I think that those coming into snow based sports may very well choose to learn both skiing and snowboarding and ‘major’ in the one that suits them physically and the environment they are usually based.

But face it guys, there is a time when you are just too old to skateboard e.g. too sad to see a forty year old on a plank of wood with wheels. I am not saying that snowboarding is necessarily the same but ....

Richard_Sideways,

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Snowboarding: how bad is the slide?

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