 Poster: A snowHead
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Dynafit have enjoyed a massive growth in the last 4 years. Their boots leading the way in lightweight powerful touring boots tailored for the modern BC skier on wider than average skis. Their bindings albeit practically unchanged have been tweaked to for modern skiing, where once shops sold a couple of pairs per year to the beards and Lycra brigade, are now selling upto 200 pairs to the helmets and harlequin frimrimders. They've moved into apparel and even have seen some loyal followers trust them to make skis. However, as a retailer we're seeing signs of greed, corner cutting and some bizarre politics, reminiscent of the industry big boys Salomon and Rossignol in the early part of the millennium.
Where once, product was touted as "gamechanging", it disappears, way before it can have been profitable. If it has been profitable, they have either ripped off the general public and retailers, margins on Dynafit product are the lowest in the business, we for example cannot discount the product, for anyone, no matter what their spend.
Their bindings now have non remove able brakes, result, you want to put your bindings on a wider or narrower ski? Well you can't, this didn't stop them selling us tens of pairs of brakes, without us knowing they are useless unless destined for older models.
Their politics for discounts to retail are no longer based on euros, but on product groups. Now Dynafit are not alone here, but shops like mine don't want Dynafit helmets; rucksacks, Lycra speed suits and certainly not their skis.
Next winter, some great products go, boots, Titan, TLT5, the Vertical ST bindings. Their new products, good, TLT6 awesome, The Beast 16 binding, possibly a genuine "gamechanger", but apparently only 200 pairs being made ( a smart marketing ploy IMO, no truth I think) will retail at 900 euros, and while we'll no doubt sell around 20 pairs, collectively the offer leaves a nasty taste somewhere near my mouth.
Their "office" for the first time in 13 years, now runs with typical German efficiency, in place of a paper trail reminiscent of the Andrex puppy being in command.
But the industry, while admiring them, is ready it would seem to turn the screw. If this company has the same margins they offer me, I'm not surprised their boots and bindings are at such high prices. If we see soon the rumoured new standard bindings from some of the Alpine giants, and the Alpine boot companies carry true to their threat of exposing why boots should not have Lo Tec compatibility, I think we'll see them return to the Micro Brand they were just 10 years ago.
We love their innovation, there is clearly massive talent there, the people that first bought you real Freeride boots, the Adrenaline and Axon boots now head up the RnD, but will the other manufacturers, the retailers or you be the first one to scream, "The King is in the altogether, the altogether."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CH2O (formaldehyde known as SZK)
So, what do you want them to do? Stay as a small player or move into the big-boy league with big-boy tactics?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dynafit are bringing out a ski for 13/14, what will they do next bring out son of 3F? I really liked the 5 clip version.
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altis, nothing really, better margins, cheaper retail, and continued innovation. Love the products, just not sticking them in my ass for pleasure as seems the trend. It's all about balance, and not sticking ski kit in your ass obviously.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The 13/14 production run of the Beast 16 is limited 2500 sets & I believe they'll all be numbered. From that the UK allocation is 20 sets which I understand will be in 105mm & 120mm brake widths (Dynafit also list them with 90mm & 135mm brakes). IIRC the brakes aren't interchangeable. UK list is £790. I've got two sets coming of which one is definately a 120mm set (which are already sold) & I'm hoping the second set will be 120's as well but I've yet to have it confirmed. They're gonna sell out way before their autumn delivery date.
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2500, that sounds better, and to be honest more than I'd expect them to sell at this price in the first year. That said their boots this year were delivered 2 months late, resulting in all being sold almost within a week. This kinda tactic Salomon used during the X Scream days.
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CH2O/NewZooKeeper, why did you come back here?
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To balance out your utter drivel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh wow, ignore!!! Genius.
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Okay I can see that, so why did you change your screen name?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Heard the TLT5 was just going to renamed "the One"
What's going to replace the Vertical ST bindings?
Can the brakes be changed on ST Radical 12/13 models?
As you know I have my quibbles with dynafit but up until now many have tried to produce something to compete on the bindings. (e.g. Naxo, Marker etc) and failed. Plum are even more expensive and don't have brakes. If the competition brings out better products at cheaper prices I'm all for that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DB wrote: |
Heard the TLT5 was just going to renamed "the One"
What's going to replace the Vertical ST bindings?
Can the brakes be changed on ST Radical 12/13 models?
As you know I have my quibbles with dynafit but up until now many have tried to produce something to compete on the bindings. (e.g. Naxo, Marker etc) and failed. Plum are even more expensive and don't have brakes. If the competition brings out better products at cheaper prices I'm all for that. |
Some Plums do have brakes (certainly next year, I don't know prior to that), but yes, wow, they are expensive, even at discounted trade.
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Well engineered products, manufactured in small volumes to niche markets (such as dynafit or any ski touring kit) will always be expensive.
The internet means that customers will shop around online for the best price - doesn't take a genius to see that. Customer doesn't actually care what margins the middle men / ski shop / distributor are able to make. It is a tough life, especially in ski hardware retail these days. Ironically one easy way to make products cheaper is to cut out the middle man who expects a 30-40% margin ?
C'est la vie.
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You know it makes sense.
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DB, the One is a different boot which is already retailing, it is basically is the same as the Mercury and Vulcan but with different materials and the ability to add the stiffening tongue removed. The replacement boot from the TLT5 AFAIK is the TLT6 which has several different stiffness tongues and is a touch wider. The Radical replaces the Vertical and no you can't change the brakes on this years models without a lot of bodging.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| DB wrote: |
What's going to replace the Vertical ST bindings?
Can the brakes be changed on ST Radical 12/13 models? |
I suspect that any Radicals sold with the latest anti-rotation system already attached will have permanently fixed brakes. Quite when the move to fixed brakes happened I don't know... I think Wildsnow might have said more about it in the past but I'm too lazy to search.
| DB wrote: |
| As you know I have my quibbles with dynafit but up until now many have tried to produce something to compete on the bindings. and failed. |
Marker compete with Dynafit, now? Seems to me they're competing with Fritschi, what with the whole conventional AT binding with alpine boot compatibility and brakes and stuff. Maybe not even then... there seem to be a lot of Duke and Baron owners who don't have skins. Dynafit are now trying to compete with Marker and Salomon by selling a bigger, beefier binding that won't scare off tech-phobics.
Anyway, that aside: the issue is partially one of patents, and partially one of standards. Between Dynafit and G3 holding all the IP it seems to be pretty tricky to make some tech-binding compatible brakes... it has taken Plum forever. and ATK seem to be the only folk with alternatives that they're not great. Maybe Fritschi's new offerings (probably out in 2014/15?) will do the trick, but its a bit of a long shot.
Trab have a neat design that will finally surface this winter in limited quantities but it doesn't appear to be compatible with standard tech fittings. That's a massive problem and will hugely restrict their sales, and yet the existing tech binding standard isn't anything special. It is just everywhere, and a big discouragement to anyone trying to innovate. Dynafit might be able to change things here, but if the Beast uses a patented heel fitting that won't be much help for the rest of the industry
Incidentally, looking at the history of the Radical, it seems that even Dynafit don't find it very easy to compete with their own past designs 
| DB wrote: |
| Plum are even more expensive and don't have brakes. If the competition brings out better products at cheaper prices I'm all for that. |
Apparently there's not a big enough market for brake free designs which would presumably make it difficult to finance some serious R&D work to invent some really good new brakes that don't breach anyone's patents. Maybe Plum have managed this now, maybe not. But the daft thing is that brakes aren't hugely useful when touring anyway... plenty of places where they wouldn't be any use at all, and plenty of places where there will be a bit of a climb or dig to recover your lost ski. man up and get some leashes 
And Plum more expensive? 420 euros for the Guide, vs 460 euros for the Radical FT which is heavier and has a stupid baseplate design. The Radical ST can be found for 375 euros, but it doesn't go up to 12, does it? Doesn't seem to have exhibited a great deal more reliability than the Guide, either...
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 7-03-13 10:53; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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^ IMHO Dyanfit brakes are kind of dumb. When touring you still need to remember to turn the heel piece to engage the brakes (which makes them kind of superfluous).
The only real benefit of dynafit brakes is you want to ski inbound's on your touring kit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Serriadh,
I've got two pairs of radicals pre anti-rotation fix. One pair was bought here in Vienna one in St Anton so it's a real ball-ache getting them both sorted.
Often do a tour early morning and then ski in the resort on the same skis all day. I tend to mess around pushing things (skiing really crap crud at the side of the piste, skiing on one ski etc) it doesn't always go to plan and leashes that bash the skis over my head probably aren't going to make it any easier.
I'm not super heavy so don't need more than a 10 din, Dynafit works out cheaper for me plus I can get tech support / spare parts dynafit here - didn't found anywhere that offered Plum here in Austria.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DB, BTW it's only this years Radicals that you can't change the brakes on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Leading innovation IMHO
The TLT 5 Performance boot is amazing and my skiing has improved no end.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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haha, there he is!!!
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CH2O, had gone to bed, a boring old guy like me needs to rest his faculties before doing battle with your rapier like wit  Seriously though I always am surprised when someone leaves and then comes back with a new name.. What gives, business slow?
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skimottaret, only 6mm delta on the new Dyna Beasts - & I've only one pair left 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon, the Radicals are working fine although looking a bit odd with 15mm of shim 
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| spyderjon, the Radicals are working fine...... |
Booger. I'll have to find another sucker .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, My Titan boots suck big time you dont sell boots do you 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ahh like all things to do with touring it is always a case of wait till the next great thing comes out, it will be a game changer, you gotta upgrade etc.. When I bought em they were meant to be the ultimate in stiff low volume "slack country" touring boots. Liking the dynafit bindings, the brakes are useless except for getting into on piste and firm snow. Bought Dynafit leashes and like the boots and bindings come with no information whatsoever on how to fit or use em with the product packaging or on their website. Just have to make an educated guess on how to use their stuff...
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You know it makes sense.
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Do they make these ? Found on a hill in Chamonix.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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AndAnotherThing.., yup the heel lifter off the radical, lots of moans on wildsnow about breakages. they do seem easier to use to me than the old rotary tower thingy..
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, yep the plastic bit seemed to have twisted & snapped and the area by the pin was bent.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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AndAnotherThing.., that's from the original 11/12 version. All sorted on the 12/13's
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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When Dynafit have their skis on sale, with boots skis and bindings it will be almost like Salomon, all suited and booted.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Leading innovation IMHO
The TLT 5 Performance boot is amazing and my skiing has improved no end. |
| CH2O wrote: |
| haha, there he is!!! |
Oh silly me. You posed a question and I provided an opinion as an answer.
My mistake.
I instruct for a living but have no vested interest in promoting Dynafit or any other brand I use / wear as I purchase my ski equipment retail, NOT wholesale.
I am NOT sponsored.
If something is great in my opinion I have the luxury of saying it's great, and if it's not to my taste I can say as much without fear of 'losing my gig'.
With fewer and fewer people coming into the sport any innovation should be embraced and lauded.
The Dynafit boots are light, comfortable (if you have a narrow foot), very supportive when skiing, and easy to walk around in.
The Dynafit bindings are safe, solid, and light and make carrying skis so much easier.
Yes the boots and bindings are expensive but so are Kjuss jackets.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Cynic, unless I'm missing the point of your comments re skis, Dynafit have been making skis for quite a few years now...
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As for the bindings, they work for me (apart from the ridiculous delta on Verts and Rads - why?). For every broken dynafit I can show you a broken Plum...
And personally I quite like brakes on my bindings, though I do object to the non-removable brakes - major backward step in my opinion.
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offpisteskiing, I shimmed mine to get zero delta and they sk much better for it , looks a bit weird though...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That makes me feel a little bit ill everytime I see it skimottaret.
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G3 Onyx. . . '12/13 . . . $380 with discount. . .
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FAQ
Probably won't need more than 82mm for my narrow touring skis though.
(1910g v 1065g).
