 Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| what I don't understand is why some SHs who have chosen to ski elsewhere spend such a lot of time whinging about France. |
Exactly my point. The people who ski in France, and therefore obviously acknowledge the positives, but who can't help but bang on about the negatives are tedious; the ones who have long-since turned their backs on France and STILL bang on about all the negatives just sound, well, a bit bitter, and in need of some sort of post break-up counselling. 
| fatbob wrote: |
| pam w, Why are you extrapolating a whinge about the protectionist attitude of a certain very specific subset of the French and the consequent impact it has on certain British (& Dutch, Scandi etc presumably) holidaymakers, making their holiday experience less enjoyable or more costly, to an accusation amounting to xenophobia or hatred of a country? |
Because every thread on here whingeing about the ESF and their support for the case against hosting also involves further whinges about "the French" and all the other stuff?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Why are you extrapolating a whinge about the protectionist attitude of a certain very specific subset of the French and the consequent impact it has on certain British (& Dutch, Scandi etc presumably) holidaymakers, making their holiday experience less enjoyable or more costly, to an accusation amounting to xenophobia or hatred of a country?
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I don't think I am, in general. Some complaints and discussion about this "ski hosting" issue have been, as you suggest, very specific and stuck to the point. However, quite a lot of the comments have been generalised anti-French whinges. "The French have shot themselves in the foot" etc etc etc
It is rare to find any xenophobic comments on SHs about any country other than France. The place is littered with observations about "the French" of a kind you are unlikely to find about "the Italians" or "the Austrians" and would rightly be entirely horrified to find about "the Jews" or "the blacks".
Incidentally, I don't think many Dutch or Scandis would have taken advantage of the British TOs ski hosting services. Not that that has any bearing on the matter, really.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, but the Dutch and Scandis have their own hosting service which presumably are also affected.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Club Med has a particularly good guiding service provided by the ESF including group 4, an expert off-piste group which tends to run 5 hour non stop outings.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 21-02-13 14:29; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's a shame the ESF have banned ski-hosting. But we must respect there laws and generosity of cheeses to the world. Let the red jackets reign supreme.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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& so who on this thread or t'other has specifically said it's down to the French, "don't like them, don't like the country", other than perhaps for comic effect (of course you can have your own opinion as to whether that joke is wearing a bit thin). What is seems we have is a bunch of French property owners who it's probably not unreasonable to assume are Francophiles (plus haggis trap who is obviously auld alliance  ) lining up to accuse others of French hating.
I enjoy skiing in France, I dislike ESF instructors blocking the entire width of the piste with an oversized class snake, I like Tartiflette and Comte, I think some prices charged on mountain for a beer are outrageous, I like chatting to French ski enthusiasts on chairlifts (including ESF instructors), I sometimes find French service delightful, I sometimes find it surly and begrudging - these opinions are not mutually incompatible.
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Does flowa own a property in France?
| flowa wrote: |
Can we stop the gross racial generalisations now? I'm all for moaning about ESF but I love skiing and holidaying in France. The ESF issue is not a "bl**dy French" issue. I wish we could elevate the level of our discourse to cater for the distinction  ... It just disappoints me that snowHeads comes off as such a xenophobic site... |
I don't think some of the comments about "the French" on SH are intended purely for comic effect (of course you can have your own opinion about whether they are).
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[quote="pam w"]
| Quote: |
It is rare to find any xenophobic comments on SHs about any country other than France. The place is littered with observations about "the French" of a kind you are unlikely to find about "the Italians" or "the Austrians" and would rightly be entirely horrified to find about "the Jews" or "the blacks".
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Yeah, maybe, but "the Eastern Europeans" seem to be the new Jews/Blacks/select your pet prejudice here...just about every ski crime in town seems to lead there...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, Those were the words of a senior employee of STGM (don't want to identify specifically as it was a private conversation) - in a response to question about race pistes being open to all when not fenced off for racing.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 21-02-13 15:10; edited 1 time in total
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| Claude B wrote: |
| The Fail was actually more restrained than I expected them to be. |
Yeah, this wouldn't have happened if Diana was still alive...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Cynic wrote: |
| Club Med has a particularly good guiding service provided by the ESF including group 4, an expert off-piste group which tends to run 5 hour non stop outings. |
They do use other local instructors too. In Tignes, I know the two lads I ski with do guiding for Club Med.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I really dont care.
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| Quote: |
who on this thread or t'other has specifically said it's down to the French
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fatbob, the following are from t'other thread - and I'm sure there would be many more, if I could be bothered to trawl through it all
The french will continue to do things their way, and never let common sense get in the way of ill-perceived self-interest.
The problem with the French is that they have no word for "entrepreneur".
It's not just the ESF that p*ss people off, practice protectionism, and act arsey. THAT is a French trait it appears.
| Quote: |
| Where's the logic to that argument? |
Welcome to France.
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You know it makes sense.
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NIMBY . . . is a universal trait.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Masque wrote: |
| NIMBY . . . is a universal trait. |
isn't this more IMBY?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not sure which I like least - deployment of a (military) police force to enforce petty protectionist commercial agendas or petitioning your own government to do something about some foreigners who might upset your holiday plans a little bit.
Still I might try it
Dear Dave,
I was thinking about trying out a bit of ski touring north of Kabul. Could you fix it for me to ensure that none of those Taliban jonnies poo-poo in my skin track?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
who on this thread or t'other has specifically said it's down to the French
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fatbob, the following are from t'other thread - and I'm sure there would be many more, if I could be bothered to trawl through it all
The french will continue to do things their way, and never let common sense get in the way of ill-perceived self-interest.
The problem with the French is that they have no word for "entrepreneur".
It's not just the ESF that p*ss people off, practice protectionism, and act arsey. THAT is a French trait it appears.
| Quote: |
| Where's the logic to that argument? |
Welcome to France. |
Parfait!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If the wording on the petition was at least accurate, it might have a chance of someone taking some notice of it.
The instructing side of things - The French are not allowing those without the full qualifications to teach - simple and fair.
See this thread - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=99649#2275078
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Philbo wrote: |
| The instructing side of things - The French are not allowing those without the full qualifications to teach - simple and fair. |
On the contrary, they are allowing those without a full qualification to teach: provided they do so under the auspices of a "centre de formation", for which, I understand, the ratio of ISTDs to others must be more than 10:1 and the principals must have graduated through French schools themselves. That is neither simple nor fair. Some might say blatantly discriminatory against new entrants and foreign establishments, which would be contrary to EU law.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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laundryman is of course right but the petition is itself appalling misusing the word guide, attributing the complaint against the ESF, a franchise rather than the appropriate French authority and conflating the 2 separate issues of TO ski hosting and instruction in a confusing way. Not to mention the dropping of de de.
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fatbob, yes, most unfortunate.
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| fatbob wrote: |
What is seems we have is a bunch of French property owners who it's probably not unreasonable to assume are Francophiles (plus haggis trap who is obviously auld alliance ) lining up to accuse others of French hating.
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QFT
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FAQ
