clarky999, I think little kids are better at that and go down easily, but 10 is not exactly little anymore and is the age when they start getting fear particularly girls and especially if they are relatively new to skiing and are getting self-conscious about falling down (possibly also due to fear). Kids can be really hard to watch and I don't like skiing near kids. Must be a tough job to be a parent on a mountain.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
On a ski day last year with the local Austrian school, an 8 year old suddenly froze up on a black run (it's not normally beyond the ability of 8 year old Austrian girls to ski such slopes) . Her father told her to take her skis off and walk down. The family didn't ski as much as the other families in the group.
As I skied down to help another child up from a fall the girl shot past me at speed on her back. I shot off but couldn't get up enough speed to get anywhere near her. Luckily between the edge of the piste and the trees there was soft snow that brought her to a halt just before the trees. If the snow conditions would have been different she would have hit the trees at speed.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Very sad. My 6 year old is nagging me to let her on the snow, brings home the dangers.
I haven't posted on this so far as there's not really a lot to say beyond express profound sadness.
However accidents do happen in skiing, sometimes the worst in the most innocuous of circumstances (I remember a child being helilifted from a small gorge in Engelberg when she'd just been in a regular ski club class). The only thing anyone can do is try to equip themselves and their nearest with skills and self awareness and hope that when something does go wrong luck is on your side. Sadly in this case it obviously wasn't.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Pezza26, lt her on the snow, but make sure she gets good instruction and that it includes the inherent knowledge that nature still owns the mountain. I tell my kids about every incident like this one and use such incidents as an example to reinforce the message that safety is good.
What a horrible, unfortunate accident. I really feel for the family. This could have been me only last week, watching my six year old son going straght down a fairly steep blue, trying to control his speed with a snowplough, me shouting turn, turn! at him. Fortunately, the run flattened out, i dread to think what would have happend otherwise.
It's a real dilemma, knowing that you're putting your children in these potentially fatal situations but I don't think I could ever consdier saying that's it, no more and depriving them of someting so fantastic - something worth living for.
I hope the parents don't blame themselves, they were allowing her to do something fantastic, something that most kids will never have the privelege of experiencing.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Very sad news.
My kids are 9 and 10, and with everything they do (skiing, riding bikes, trampolining, swimming, crossing the road etc.) one can only give them the best advice and tuition you can, provide a safe(ish) environment (where feasible) and simply then hope for the best. One can't eliminate all risk. I've had plenty of "heart in mouth" moments and genuinely can't watch when either one is doing sommersaults on the trampoline.
The odds on a serious mishap are very small, though this is obviously of little consolation to those involved when the inevitable freak incident occurs.
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So desperately sad and devastating for her family
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genepi, Is it wrong that I clicked on the DM link to find out the value of their house? No data but comforting list of nice middle class professions and hobbies. [FTAOD comment on the DM not this family's tragedy]. A spotting of usual kneejerk clueless comments below though, including a nice suggestion that anyone taking their kids away for half term is gambling with their lives & another that all trees can be barricated (sic).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ChrisP3 wrote:
This could have been me only last week, watching my six year old son going straght down a fairly steep blue, trying to control his speed with a snowplough, me shouting turn, turn! at him. Fortunately, the run flattened out, i dread to think what would have happend otherwise.
If he's struggling to turn, out of control and picking up speed, you'd be better off shouting for him to sit down - he's probably got more chance of managing that safely!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The thing is even if you could keep up with them, there isn't much you can do is there? You can't turn their skis for them and even if you shouted sit down, I have my doubts that they would.
Mind you, I don't know what I would do in that situation even as an adult which is why I still tend to have my chickening out steepness fully engaged. It is still a fear of being out of control which limits what I will ski. It shouldn't actually do so, as technically, I guess I possess sufficient technique to scrape down most pisted things, but no-one ever teaches you how to deal with the out of control scenario where you are going so fast with your weight behind your skis that you can't turn (like that chap in the video posted a few days back - came screaming out of the trees and crashed in a heap below a rise). My kids were never taught it either. Everyone assumes that you can always have sufficient control to turn your skis and slow down, but that needn't necessarily be the case. Maybe things that can be done to arrest an out of control incident should be part of our ski lessons - adults and children both.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
self-arrest is taught sometimes, but generally looking at what happens after a fall, AFAIK, when you're shooting down a slope on your back. I suppose ski instructors would argue that they teach people always to ski in control, and that scenario shouldn't happen unless people are taken on pistes which are beyond their ability to ski in control. Which happens all the time, of course, though not generally with instructors. I did watch an instructor I know well taking a lad down a black run (not a particularly difficult one). He skied in front, then turned and watched and shouted encouragement and instructions - being such a skilful skier he could probably have dealt with any out-of-control situation OK. The lad did fall several times, but his speed was being kept very low, and he didn't come to any harm.
I saw a big guy do that suicide run once, down a green slope, on his first day on skis. He had become very impatient with the slow pace of the ski school in the morning - we met him after the lesson, and were meeting the rest of the family for a picnic. I had my car, and had assumed I'd drive him. But he insisted on skiing. First he had to do a draglift, which he fell off. His son and I were both behind him, and managed to get him back down, and up the drag, but by then he was tired. He then set off down the green - a very easy one, but not suitable for a beginner to straightline. He had realised he was going too fast to snowplough so just schussed - his son and I raced after him but he weighed more than both of us put together. That run has a very long flat run out, and he stayed on his feet. Had he wiped out he would probably have injured himself, and had he hit a small child he would probably have killed it. It was terrifying to watch. He was shaken at the bottom, but not as chastened as he should have been, and part of him thought it had been rather clever, I suspect. He was Belgian - he probably drives like that too.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
As a complete beginner getting a few lessons on a local dry slope the instructor told us to hit the deck should we find ourselves out of control and unable to stop once we ventured out into the mountains.
(with the emphasis obviously being on not getting into that situation in the first place)
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 13-02-13 20:05; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
ski in control
yup. Thats why, despite doing the blacks in her lessons I will generally take my 11 year old on blues with the odd reds that we know are ok. Conditions can change so quick though that I muich prefer sticking to the blues with her. Generally me in fron, her in the middle and Dad at the back - as he will go too fast if he's at the front and she will follow. There are risks and dangers everywhere - you have to assess and act accordingly...but even the most cautious of people are not guaranteed safety, in any situation.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This must be a devastating tragedy for the family and ones heart goes out to the parents.
Having said that I find some of the comments on this thread a little strange in that I do not percieve skiing to be a dangerous past time. Clearly one can do dangerous things whilst skiing but interms of overall dangers, it really is very safe.
I have no hesitation whatsoever in taking my children on black runs from a young age. The only problem I have ever had was froma trainee instructor who after having nearly skied into my daughter told my wife that she should not be there.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Shimmy Alcott, which is a great approach when you know where you are (which is why I am happiest in that situation myself), but on recent holidays we have gone to places that none of us have skied before and then you throw yourself at the mercy of the person marking the slopes green, blue, red and black. As I found out having skittered with fair success, luckily, down a bloody icy red in flachau only to be told later that it was actually the ladies world cup piste and water injected to make it deliberately icy!!!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 13-02-13 20:12; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
but no-one ever teaches you how to deal with the out of control scenario where you are going so fast with your weight behind your skis that you can't turn (like that chap in the video posted a few days back - came screaming out of the trees and crashed in a heap below a rise). My kids were never taught it either. Everyone assumes that you can always have sufficient control to turn your skis and slow down, but that needn't necessarily be the case.
If you aren't confident you can ride it out long enough to regain control before getting to somewhere you don't want to be (group of kids, trees, cliff, big kicker, whatever), you sit down to the side. That simple, and the sooner you do it the better.
Generally me in fron, her in the middle and Dad at the back
I think this is the ideal formation in many families. In groups, generally, you need a strong skier as back marker - the one least likely to fall and need assistance themselves. But some blokes are just too impatient.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
pam w, when we ski with the kids we tend to have FraserP in front then the kids and me at the back. This year the threat is to put me in front 'cos I go faster in front. Sometimes we set the kids a target - marker X or X snow canons away and send them off to ski at their own speed it gives them some independent running and lets me watch them - we follow them down once they arrive, but that is only when the conditions are fair and we can see. Anything iffy and they stay in formation. They get their private instructor for a fun trip out if they play ball for the rest of the holiday.
At least I know that the kids are safe with someone at the bottom of the slope if I need to sort myself out on the way down. I am def. the weak link, but I'm a fairly self sufficient weak link, and if you look helpless enough some gallant male skiers usually stop and help (touch wood it happens infrequently).
This year the threat is to put me in front 'cos I go faster in front
sounds a good idea - you'll be more relaxed. Back marker is hard work. Your kids have had a fair bit of tuition and sound very good - you do see a lot of kids on red slopes who absolutely shouldn't be there, often with parents who are pretty shaky themselves.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w, I've done the front runner on a number of occasions, but I am always concerned about the kids following me too close and possibly piling into me if I stop unexpectedly. When I run at the back I don't need to be bothered by that and can come down in my own time. I don't know what works best, but the worst combination is the family group that clearly hasn't had necessary tution for the children. Or the father (usually) who is insistent that a child can ski something they clearly can't.
I guess we won't find out what happened in this tragic case, but my own notion is that it was just an unfortunate accident. A child who, for whatever reason, got their weight behind the skis and couldn't control their direction. I doubt it was anyone's fault - the resort, the parents etc, and I very much doubt in a blameless accident that anything can be learned from it, which is a real shame.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Or the father (usually) who is insistent that a child can ski something they clearly can't.
is that you just making assumptions? Ive never seen that - not that I spend to much time watching other families to see what the Dad is making them ski.
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Shimmy Alcott, yes, unfortunately I've seen very young kids on the hill being cajouled down things by older male skiers (OK I grant I don't know if they actually are their parents) and thought 'poor bloody kid'.
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Shimmy Alcott wrote:
Quote:
Or the father (usually) who is insistent that a child can ski something they clearly can't.
is that you just making assumptions? Ive never seen that - not that I spend to much time watching other families to see what the Dad is making them ski.
Usually the other way round in this household!
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pam w wrote:
I think this is the ideal formation in many families. In groups, generally, you need a strong skier as back marker - the one least likely to fall and need assistance themselves.
Not forgetting that back marker has to be careful not to "run interference" as that only encourages more marginal overtaking moves (see impatience) for which child in middle is vulnerable to the consequences.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Shimmy Alcott wrote:
Quote:
Or the father (usually) who is insistent that a child can ski something they clearly can't.
is that you just making assumptions? Ive never seen that - not that I spend to much time watching other families to see what the Dad is making them ski.
A fair bit from what I have seen....just a few weeks ago at Mt Hemel in fact!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Family tribute to their daughter published this morning
Quote:
A 10 year old Wiltshire girl has died after hitting a tree whilst skiing on a family holiday in Austria.
The accident happened in the resort of Mayrhofen on Sunday ( 10th February) in the Tyrol region.
Jemima Prees, from Colerne in the west of Wiltshire, lost control, went off piste and hit a tree.
In a statement her family have described Jemima as a very " special girl who lived every day as if there might be no tomorrow" They go on to say " She died in a beautiful place doing something she love, with some of her favourite people. She was skiing within her ability and taking if very carefully, within yards of us. No one will know why she suddenly went straight down the down the piste or why she didn't turn or fall. After a hundred yards, she hit trees at a high speed."
Her family have also revealed Jemima died instantly from a major brain injury. Her older brother tried for 40 minutes to resuscitate her which enabled her organs to be donated to save or transform four people's lives.
The family paid this tribute:
"We are very proud of him, as we were proud of her. We would now like to be given the space to grieve as a family in an attempt to begin rebuilding our lives"
Boredsurfing,
Thanks for posting a very good statement from the family.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
Boredsurfing,
Thanks for posting a very good statement from the family.
Indeed, dignified and straightforward. They sound like a strong family.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think you have to regard these type of accidents as freak. Just the luck of the draw - or rather the bad luck. I skied with someone several times in the early 90s. An SCGB gold medal holder I seem to remember. He hit a tree and broke his neck - died instantly. You could hit a tree a thousand times and it have fatal consequences how many times? He made a rare mistake and had the bad luck to hit a tree in just such a way that it ended his life
In my first week in Tignes this season I was hit 3 times by other skiers. Each time I was stationary at the side of the piste. Obeying all the rules. Each one may have injured me but apart from bruising none did.
If I am coaching somebody with less experience or wish to give someone confidence by protecting them I tend to ski behind them; unless I am demo'ing. I am not sure skiing in front of someone protects them in anyway. They can still lose control and hit someone or something. Teach good principles re speed and control and you reduce the chances of serious injury but the chance is always there.
Very, very sad. But its easy to over-analyse these incidents I think. We are all just a second away from catching an edge, banging our head and going to meet our maker - or being hit by the proverbial bus.
Enough philosophising!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
We are all just a second away from catching an edge, banging our head and going to meet our maker - or being hit by the proverbial bus.
The death of 10-year-old Jemima Prees in Mayrhofen, Austria, this week has prompted calls for increased safety measures for skiers ahead of the peak half-term period.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I think the whole report is a tad more balanced than the headline suggests
Anyway I might respectfully suggest that if that is debated, it is on a separate thread where it may less inflame people's feelings about this tragic incident.
Bode Swiller, to be fair I didn't think that it was a knee jerk reaction anti-skiing article but possibly a reasoned approach in answer to those claiming that skiing is too dangerous for young children?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Her family have also revealed Jemima died instantly from a major brain injury. Her older brother tried for 40 minutes to resuscitate her which enabled her organs to be donated to save or transform four people's lives.
very brave of the family to make that decision; I hope it brings them some comfort in the future - very precious gifts.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Measured and sensible article from Hardy (although given his family stock in trade he's not above the same bias all of us enthusiasts have).
Some priceless comments though - where to start on the bigotry, generalisations, understanding of physics and hypocrisy of this individual for instance:
Quote:
Peter, I HAVE read all the article and find it very British !
I was an avid skier in my younger days { learned to ski at 41}and absolutely loved it and took full advantage of our very long season in North America. Fortunately here in Canada {Whistler/Banff areas}
the safety aspect is 100% and excellently enforced, especially with the crazy snowboarders who now can injure 'each other' on designated runs as opposed to the danger they exposed people like me to prior to that precaution being introduced.
I have skied in Austria, once, in Kitz. and was not that impressed.
I much prefer Colorado especially Vail.
I think kids should ski at the earliest age possible but should be encouraged to respect their limits and avoid long runs at the ed of a tiring day. Helmets are a must although I never used one,but bad luck can befall anyone, and this is precisely what happened to this young girl. It is a tragedy but you can't prevent them sometimes.
Your daughter's accident could have been prevented perhaps if the post had been covered and padded, again bad luck is an element.
I do hope your daughter recovers and continues to ski, I always said it was a passport to happiness and only regretted my late start once I got involved. I used to loathe Canadian winters and now love them.
That is another point, many Brits only ski once a season and may make silly decisions based on that, like overdoing it on tired legs.
Keep kids active, any sport is worthwhile in my opinion and the tiny risks involved should be accepted as part of a balanced childhood.
That'll be the Whistler where the Quicksilver chair killed some passengers and the Banff where Sunshine employees have been killed on the job then along with some bizarre slope apartheid unknown to any rational Canadian. And clearly someone who's enjoyed the joys of every rock on Spanky's/the Dive or every tree on Bark Sandwich being padded to airbag standards.
Last edited by After all it is free on Fri 15-02-13 19:41; edited 1 time in total
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This is such a tragedy, Words can't describe. Unfortunately the family will almost certainly be dealing with recriminations and regrets for as long as they live. But they did nothing wrong. I believe bringing your child to ski is a gift. Unfortunately there is always a remote but real risk of a tragedy.
I would add that one thing that can freak out kids (and adults) is skiers and especially snowboarders, usually male, in their 20s, 30s, and some in their 40s, tearing down the slopes, spraying powder everywhere (cos they're on their tails and out of control), causing others to tense up and lose their technique, control, and balance. Clearly it is not just collisions which do the damage. This is a serious problem European resorts need to address urgently (N American ones seem to be more on top of this I understand).
Did this tragedy happen on today (Friday)? A treacherous day always due to the maniacs who are depressed to be going back to their mundane day jobs the next day, taking out their angst on the ski slopes.
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patricksh wrote:
I would add that one thing that can freak out kids (and adults) is skiers and especially snowboarders, usually male, in their 20s, 30s, and some in their 40s, tearing down the slopes, spraying powder everywhere (cos they're on their tails and out of control), causing others to tense up and lose their technique, control, and balance. Clearly it is not just collisions which do the damage. This is a serious problem European resorts need to address urgently (N American ones seem to be more on top of this I understand).
.
Really? While I don't endorse out of control idiots of which there are many wherever you are, if a slope user is such a sensitive little flower that they freak out when they come within a radius of such an idiot (NB I'm not talking about collisions) they need either a dose of M/WTFU or to avoid any public slopes in any ski resort in favour of isolated bunny slopes only. The beginner area at Le Tour springs to mind as an example, given that the more advanced skiers crossing it have skied a strictly offpiste route to get there and might be assumed to have a modicum of control.
There is of course a wider solution attached to the phrase "stop the brutal grooming" but then not many sensitive flowers would like that either.
The biggest hazard most of the time is sheer volume of traffic on busy runs which is why a) off piste is often objectively safer and b) if you don't like it the easiest solution is not to contribute to the problem e.g. download.
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