First time buying kit - does that extra 4cm make all the difference?

A snowHead

So, we have just moved to Switzerland and can pretty much ski every weekend. This means that it's time to buy some gear to stop throwing money away on rentals. I'd say I'm firmly average ability - I can get down most runs, control my speed, stop where I need to etc, but technique is a bit lacking. We'll be here for the start of the next season so I'll definitely be looking at lessons. I only started skiing about 6-7 years ago, and got out to a week long trip a year if I was lucky. Only used rental kit, although most of it has been good quality.

I'm 6ft 7in (about 2m) tall so am pretty ungainly, let's say. From having a search about on here it looks like I should be on 180cm - 185cm skis. I had some 184s at the weekend, and turning seemed a bit more of an effort than on the 179s of the week before. Because I haven't got that much time under my belt I'm not sure if this is because the conditions were different, or it's a psychological thing because I know I have the bigger size, or just because I wasn't having the best day. I guess it's probably a lack of technique as well?

From what I've read it seems I should get the larger ones. I guess I'm asking if I should notice a difference between the two sizes, or whether it's all in my head...

Swiss prices mean I don't want to get it wrong!

A snowHead

Rhoobarb, have a look at this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=97786#2231209

First of all, you are going to need more than one pair, probably, if you are skiing every weekend, especially if you are doing off-piste. You don't need to buy now if you are not skiing till next season - or pay Swiss prices, you can use online sellers. But maybe you need advice from someone knowledgeable who can see you ski - like the OP in the other thread.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I think you need a lesson or two first. If you find 184 harder to turn than 179 it's due to technique than the length as at your height you should be able to turn 190 and larger. If you are finishing your turns properly you won't even notice normally 5 cm difference. I think the best way would be to go a specialized shop in Switzerland where personnel know their stuff and go with their advice. You can usually rent a brand new pair for a season with an option to buy them at a discount after the season ends.
Re Swiss prices - if you are moving here you will be also getting Swiss wages, so prices are less relevant and you get used to them very quickly.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Thanks guys. The rent then buy option is something I had thought of. I think I may be overthinking it - by lunchtime I'm not thinking about the turns and am fine. Plus, I'm transitioning from one week a year to regular skiing, so I'll get a better feel for things every time I go.

never summer, I'll be getting Swiss wages when I get a job - have come over as a trailing spouse, so expecting a bit of a hard slog...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Rhoobarb,
Your skiing will probably improve very quickly as you get much more time on the snow. Lookout for second-hand internet websites with sporting goods.
PS it's not just about the length, stiffness also plays a major part in how easy a ski is to turn.

You'll need to Register first of course.

I certainly think I have a lot of research to do. Never thought much about what equipment I have as it's all been rented. Should have paid more attention given how important they are...

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I'd do some physical training as well if I were you - ski specific and core stability might help.

After all it is free

Rhoobarb, it's quite normal (in Geneva anyway) to rent on a seasonal basis... would give you more flexibility...

We're living in Swtizerland, too. I don't find prices that much more than elsewhere, if you know where to shop. Also, we're barrelling towards the end of season, and a lot of the shops are already offering good deals. Next month will be even better. If you have a "local" mountain where you're skiing a lot, it's worth asking the resort shops about test skis and purchasing - you can often try out a number of options and then get a reasonable deal on the one you want. If you're going to use a regular instructor, they are often the best placed to help you negotiate and also advise on good options - very helpful if your language skills are a bit wobbly. Where are you going to be based?

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Length is not everything!
It's just the dimension that people tend to be pre-occupied with and is entirely irrelevant without considering width, shape and stiffness.

There are many reasons other than length why you might find one ski harder to turn than another.
One of the main differences between beginners skis and more advanced models is stiffness. Novices are less accurate with their technique and so a softer ski will be more forgiving of their errors. A more advanced skier knows what the ski should do and will draw better performance from a stiffer ski.

Similarly the shape, ie. sidecut of a ski has a huge bearing on its turnability. A slalom ski, for example, is very narrow underfoot and has a very deep arc to it's edge, so turns very tightly - it is also relatively short. The right length for you would tend to be about 170cm.
Off piste skis will be wider underfoot and often have a shallower arc to their edge - they also tend to be skied longer.

...and then there's everything in between!

I use 2 sets of skis regularly: on-piste, slalom in 165cm and off-piste in 189cm as they give more float in soft snow.

On the whole: a longer ski will be more stable at speed but more difficult to turn; a softer ski, more forgiving and easier to turn at low speeds but less stable and responsive at higher speeds; a ski with a deeper edge (shorter turn radius) will turn more easily but be less stable in a straight line; a wider ski will float more, making it easier to turn in soft snow but more effort to get onto it's edge on a solid surface.
...and then there's the colour scheme to think of! Wink

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Great stuff everyone. It's a shame I only got out a month ago - we wanted to be here and sorted before the season started, but companies move pretty slowly here... I wonder whether to get my own boots all fitted out properly, then rent the skis for the season. This way I can adapt as my skiing (hopefully) improves.

admin, makes me realise that I could have done so much than rocking up to a rental shop each trip and accepting what I was given. Didn't really matter when it was one week a year, but I want to make the most of the opportunity here and really improve my technique.

tartegnin, we are in Lausanne. Been to Leysin, Villars and Chateau D'Oex already and I've only been here a month. Like you say, there are some massive markdowns at the moment.

Thanks all for some good info. Because I'm so tall I kid myself that it's normal to look out of shape, but I know I need more lessons. Half a day in a chiller and 4 days beginner lessons 8 years ago won't cut it for regular skiing!!

snow reports

Absolutely, yes... get your boots fitted properly. That is by far the most important step to take.

From there, hiring skis is easy: 2-3 mins to choose and get the bindings set up. The shop techs take U a little more seriously too... generally.
Once your boots are a constant, you'll be able to tell much better the difference between skis.

Also, your height is only one variable in complex equation (which doesn't really exist anyway!)

Weight is at least as important as height and, according to some, more important. As is experience, style, skill, what sort of skiing you like to do and finally the most imprtant factor: the colour of the topsheet! Also with things like rockers now, a 185cm ski could handle more like a 175cm ski from a few years ago.

I'm only 175cm tall but I'm a prop-forward, weigh 17st (c.106kg) and am fairly fit. I rent stuff every year and usually go for something fairly stiff at around 185cm because I'm quite an aggressive skier and I like doing long, fast, carved turns on piste and I find longer, stiffer skis give me more stability and confidence. Softer/lighter/flappier skis tend to bend too much and "chatter" too much at speed and shorter ones, whilst a blast doing short turns, I find too unstable - having said that really stiff skis can also chatter at speed if you get into a sort of resonant-rebound type thing (technically know as a "tank-slapper" by motorcyclists!)

I found I really liked the Dynastar Sultan 85's 2010/11(?) model in 184cm and specifically rented those for a few trips, but I also tried the updated model last year and didn't like them. Had a difficult time on some Blackeye Ti's (c.175cm)one year and a pair of X-Wings literally disintegrated under my feet, I also had a blast on some Black Crows Corvus at 175cm last year - not so easy (but still perfectly manageable) on piste but wicked off it. The year I destroyed the x-wings, they were replaced with the last pair in the shop which was some Rossi Alias Carbon at 166cm - very fun doing short turns and small bumps, surprisingly stable going fairly fast but not fast enough for me!

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Don't get caught up in the dimensions of things too much, they're just numbers. Even when I was having a "difficult" time on skis, I was still on skis so having a better time than at any other time Very Happy

Sorry to muddy the waters for you but I'd just rent several different makes, models and lengths over different weekends and see what you like.

You know it makes sense.

Rhoobarb, You will definitely improve a lot once you start skiing regularly. In resorts many ski shops are selling their old stock pretty much all season long, mostly well used but generally in good condition for the fraction of a price of new skis. Don't overthink equipment too much and invest cash in lessons.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

As under a new name says look at renting for the season. A lot of Swiss do that and the season rates are comparatively cheap (like the season ski pass). You can then try different models/lengths. There is a good shop in Gland 20 mins out of Geneva on the way to Lausanne

A snowHead

Rhoobarb - we're in Lausanne too! And, we ski Leysin pretty much every weekend - I really don't get bored easily, and I love the meandering slopes - most importantly, I really love that it's 55 minutes from home. I'm unfortunately not a trailing spouse, but I have managed most weeks to take a half day off in the week - I get up there for the 9am lift midweek, ski hard until 11:45, and am back at my desk for 1pm. I envy you being able to go whenever ...

if you liked Leysin, we have a great pair of private instructors I can highly recommend, Neil and Sophie Sawyer, and they are great for all levels. Our whole family has progressed really well thanks to them. They also will travel to other resorts, so we've skiied Glacier 3000 and Les Crosets with them. PM me if you want details, or look up LeysinSki. They also have good connections with ski shops in Leysin and could probably help out if you want to try some skis out.

A snowHead

This is all great stuff, thanks guys. I did do a search and have a look through previous posts, but I was worried this sort of question had been done to death. Got really useful replies though, got a lot to think about.

tartegnin, Ahhh - how cool is skiing in the morning before work! Been here 4 weeks and still getting used to not having a job. Haven't been on my own yet a I feel like I'm sponging a bit. Will be great outlet for the inevitable job stress though snowHead

Loving Lausanne in the few weeks with been here, it's a great place to be. Thanks for the recommendation - LeysinSki looks great.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Enjoy it while you can!! PM me if you need anything getting settled in ...

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Well... Still haven't bought anything yet and we were in Crans Montana at the weekend for the Caprices festival. Now, I know I am tall and have big feet, but this has never been an issue when renting gear. On Saturday I got a pair of very tight boots, which weren't great but I could live with, but was given a pair of 170s!!! Shocked

I straight away said I need some longer ones, but was told they were the largest one in the shop... We'd pre-paid, and as there weren't any others to be had I just went with it.

Cue a horrible day really. The conditions weren't great, very cloudy and flat light at times, but I was really struggling. Felt I didn't have enough control, certainly when stopping, and haven't fallen over so much in ages. We had paid for two days but took them back on the Sunday, which was very frustrating as the weather was great. A different guy was there, who was a nice bloke to be fair, who managed to find some skis of an appropriate length in the racks - annoying to say the least. Legs were wrecked after a combination of the boots and the struggles the day before so we didn't go out again. He said that they were the only shop that had size 48 and above boots in Crans Montana, which I found strange as I'd never had a problem before.

The plan is to be all set up at the start of next season with at least our own boots, and this experience definitely reinforced that. Fatboy Slim saved the day, so it wasn't all bad.

Help!!

First time buying kit - does that extra 4cm make all the difference?

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Equipment Reviews/Questions