 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sarah, rocker exists solely to justify the marketing function.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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IME, a rockered ski skis it's length when you're in softer snow. It's on hard-pack and pisted conditions that it skis a little shorter than it's length. If you were to go longer, it might behave okay on piste, but you'd notice the extra length when in softer snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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^^^  (at UANN)
sarah, either of your options - depends on your own preferences, really.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, we got you onto Mantra's from SL's.
I guess our next task is to get you over 100mm underfoot.
Then rocker.
Then negative camber 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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under a new name, maybe
feef, interesting, thanks.
Arno, thanks.
It's for a junior ski if this makes any difference?
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Mosha Marc, I will still be buying a new pair of SLs next year. And possibly some SGs.
I spent a week on Coombacks last winter. But then, that was guaranteed powder.
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under a new name, no one said our mission was easy
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sarah, what will your lad be using the skis for?
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Mosha Marc, difficult. He'll go everywhere on it. Problem I have is that he has a fattish twin tip which is fab in deep/soft/slush but pants really on piste. So I was looking to get him back onto a decent piste performance race oriented ski but it'll have to cope off piste too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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sarah, how about a stiffer fattish twin tip?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mosha Marc, I don't think the ones he has are that soft. I was thinking of something with a shorter radius, great edge hold, and a bit nippy, hence looking to the race oriented skis.
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sarah, if it's racey types of skis you're looking at, they probably won't have a rocker.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| sarah, if it's racey types of skis you're looking at, they probably won't have a rocker. |
Returning to the marketing talk, they could have 'piste rocker'
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sarah, how old is he?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| Returning to the marketing talk, they could have 'piste rocker' |
Or 'early rise tip', which sounds more like a man problem.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Zero-G, early negative camber can be more of an issue.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Most race skis aren't rockered.
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If it's a piste oriented ski, any rocker/early rise tip will be very slight and shouldn't influence your choice of length. Basically serious piste skis have none or minimal rocker.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| sarah, rocker exists solely to justify the marketing function. |
There's a reason why kayaks, surfboards, yachts, and other things that you want to float/rise over lumpy things (rocks/waves/etc - or cruddy/crusty snow) don't curve down at the front.
Any rocker on a psite ski will be marketing rocker though (ie, not rocker).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, none of my skis curve down at the front!! (?)
Sarah, ummm, call me old fashioned (and grumpy, curmudgeonly, etc.) (if you don't, someone will be along shortly who will...) all of the 8 year olds I know/knew (some are a little older now) just ski on what they get (and many are in local ski club, etc., skiing gates and powder on the same kit, week in , week out).
I'd go as far as to suggest that junior skis aren't that well differentiated anyway?
[edit] hmmm not convinced by the merits but very impressed by some cunning marketing. Glad I'm not a parent, some of those skis have barely concealed Raleigh Chopper graphics on them...
I am still slightly of the opinion that at 8 y.o. it's a skills not a kit issue (sorry Sarah... Feel free to contradict me!!)
Mind You, my mindset comes partially from having been on a pair of Fischer Red Masters (a huge upgrade from Blue Masters) at 8, wood core, in fact, wood throughout, at least they had metal edges (wooooooohhh!) and !!! Step In Bindings !!! And a very funky fluo green base made of some new fangled p-tex (?) stuff.
No need for any of that nasty silver Toko rub in wax for me!!
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under a new name, no I won't call you all of that, I hear you
You're right that on the whole junior skis aren't all that well differentiated as far as I can see and I have been looking hard, to be honest it's disappointing but I guess that's the market for kids as I see it; mostly cheap (but actually not) foam cored noodles.
And you're right about the marketing and graphics, most of the kids 'race' skis just have the graphics from the real race stock slapped on a set of the above.
There are a few exceptions.
Yes skills and not kit is a fair argument and I agree and that is why after 12 weeks my lad still goes with an instructor every time. His technique is good, but the supposedly easier fatter twin tips are not doing him any favours in my opinion and so back to a decent piste ski he is going!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
clarky999, none of my skis curve down at the front!! (?)
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What's that camber doing, if not driving the front of the ski down onto (into) the snow? A long gentle upwards curve up is clearly more effective at providing float than a downcurve with a little flick up at the end.
It's quite clear that it's not just about marketing, whether it suits you/your style/your priorities or not is an entirely different matter, but that's not a reason to persuade others to completely write it off too - especially when at that point the OP hadn't even mentioned what conditions she wanted the skis for!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Where is pingu when you need him with his rocker demonstration
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clarky999, i would point out that all my skis point up at the end. That is all.
I just feel that rocker is the new bandwagon. I mean, ffs, Atomic even have allegedly on their retail race skis.
Default answer to "do I need rocker?" - no.
...to "do I want rocker?" Maybe. Mostly on piste? No. You probably want lessons and maybe shorter skis. Mostly big lines in Alaska? Maybe. Entirely up to you.
It's not a panacea and it doesn't come with a little bag of added skillz.
Sarah, delighted to hear that your lad has an instructor all/most of the time. Very lucky him. I would suggest that one of the more "race" oriented models, maybe if you can find a slightly wider model would be a pretty good choice? At 8 I wouldn't think floatation would be a big issue. But being able to feel a carve I think would be important.
YMMV 
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