 Poster: A snowHead
|
So we were skiing in Val di Fassa on Wednesday, from Alba to Pozza, then Vigo to Pera and back again. It was about -7 in the valley, snowing not heavily but continuously, and howling a gale.
It's not a busy area, so I don't expect many of you to have been there, but if you can imagine two old two-seater chairlifts that take you very slowly from 1400 to 1800m, then that is the route out of Pera. Only I couldn't get off the second one. Well, couldn't clear it properly, and got knocked over before it hit me on the head (yes, I was wearing a helmet...)
We continued to the top ("snow's very sticky here...") and shuffled off the next lift, before having a look at our skis, which were now covered in 2-4mm of sheet ice, which we had to remove before we could ski on.
We have never experienced this before, and can only assume it was due to the combination of the long, slow chairlift and the cold, windy, snowy weather conditions. Is there anything that can be done to prevent it? We didn't realize the problem until we couldn't move on the snow.
Any thoughts appreciated 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Never come across that before I'm afraid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
And neither have any of the other 94 people who've read this so far 
Anybody?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Nope, nothing from me either. I've been in colder temps in worse conditions and it's never happened to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Wouldn't call -7 degree a cold day as we have skied down to -26 degree C twice (once in Are of Sweden and another time in Les Arc) but never had ice formed in the skis to the point that needs something done. Hard to image if the air temperature is -7 then where to get water to freeze the 2 to 4mm ice on the ski. Could the boots and skis be so warm that the snow melted and then frozen immediately into ice?
One of the deals in skiing is to take on whatever the weather can throw at us while sitting in a chairlift in the exposed condition. Thus Austrian resorts have been our recent favourite as they have more bubble shields and heated seats.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I've had that. Big sheet of ice on ski base. Annoying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Happened on the front of my truck in Dakota . . . any help? And I once sat in a puddle of pee left by some little darling and froze my sallies to a plastic chair . . . didn't know it was pee till drying them on the radiator that evening . . . 
Try a Zardos puck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need a cold hard wax to stop the snow and ice sticking to your bases. I had several clients this week struggling to go anywhere as they had either no wax or warm wax on their bases when the snow temp was cold.
With one client we had to stop three times in one run to scrape the snow off that was stuck to their base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
snowrider, now we're getting somewhere! Unfortunately they were hire skis, so I have no idea what they'd been waxed with. The weather had been warmer, so maybe this didn't help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saikee, I know that -7 isn't that cold, but there was a hefty wind chill and it is still somewhat below rather than above freezing. I don't think our boots and skis would have been very warm at all. The Dolomites have lots of heated seats and bubble covers, but they don't heat your boots and skis. Fortunately most go faster than these old lifts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Scarlet, exactly the same happened to my sister in law, skiing in New Zealand. She stuck fast to the off-ramp, fell over, skis failed to release, helicopter ride followed soon after. She broke her leg and it's still not right, several years and bone-graft surgery later.
It also happened, with no such nasty side effects (just a harmless fall, skis released), to my brother in law in France a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't cold at all, really, rather warm for the time of year, but he'd left his skis on a wet terrace, and maybe ice had formed.
Wind chill has no effect on skis AFAIK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Scarlet, Windchill wouldnt make a difference, as wont alter the temp, only make it feel colder to you.
More likely down to the state of the hire skis than anything else, wax or lack of - similar to snow sticking to the bottom of your boot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, may well have been wet and melting snow that then froze higher up. As said above, windchill will not have an effect of items already at an ambient temperature.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
pam w,
Wait a minute how can you be sure that it was the ice formed in the ski making the detachment not taking place when it suppose to do so. When the skis were adjusted for the user a quarter turn more of the adjusting screw may be all is needed to make it not releasing at the right time. Has this possibility been ruled out? Under the normal circumstance it should take next to nothing to break the ice on the skis.
If what happen to this post and your sister in law were true then everyone of us is skiing at risk below -7 degree C will it not? Scientifically in a fall our skis will not come off at this temperature!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Wind chill only affects living things, it doesn't apply to inanimate objects.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Scarlet, skis had no wax on/in them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| saikee wrote: |
pam w,
Wait a minute how can you be sure that it was the ice formed in the ski making the detachment not taking place when it suppose to do so. When the skis were adjusted for the user a quarter turn more of the adjusting screw may be all is needed to make it not releasing at the right time. Has this possibility been ruled out? Under the normal circumstance it should take next to nothing to break the ice on the skis.
If what happen to this post and your sister in law were true then everyone of us is skiing at risk below -7 degree C will it not? Scientifically in a fall our skis will not come off at this temperature! |
I think it was ice on the base preventing the skis from sliding that she was talking about.
I've had similar things form trying to sidestep over streams etc offpiste, a bit of water on the base then freezes, making the skis sticky. A bit of skiing/stamping normally gets it off though.
Maybe it was rime building up, in this case on the chairlift?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| robapplegate wrote: |
| Wind chill only affects living things, it doesn't apply to inanimate objects. |
But wind can plaster rime over animate and inanimate objects in the right conditions which don't need to be excessively cold.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
pam w, yes, that sounds like the same thing, only my ski released so no damage done (beyond a sharp knock to my pride). A very nasty incident for your sister in law though.
I understand that skis don't suffer from wind chill, but was it the effect of the wind on the falling snow that formed ice on the bases? Or must it have been from snow already stuck to the bases before we got on the lift (it was just a snowy area by a car park, nothing unusual, no streams)? I've not generally noticed snow sticking to bases when I take my skis off, and this didn't happen at any other time during the week.
spyderjon, can you tell from looking at a ski if it needs more wax? As I use hire skis, I don't carry my own wax and tend to assume that the shop will have applied wax to last the week. This would have been day 4. Am I expecting too much?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
clarky999, yes, the ice build up definitely had too much resistance against the snow, and it was well stuck! Wouldn't have fancied trying to ski it off, lest I ended up in the same state as pam w's sister in law!
Had to look up 'rime'. Maybe it was caused by a combination of the weather conditions and a lack of wax/wrong type of wax the?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Scarpa wrote: |
| Yes, may well have been wet and melting snow that then froze higher up. |
This is also what I guessed. The only time got ice on the undersides of mine was when they got wet in a river and then froze.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You guys must pretty high up in the food chain of skiing.
I have never come across a run with a river in it. The only time I got my ski wet was when the snow melted into a pond of water in the middle of a run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| robapplegate wrote: |
| Wind chill only affects living things, it doesn't apply to inanimate objects. |
Wind chill doesn't only affect human beings, hence the reson people blow on soup to cool it down. The wind causes more water to evaporate off and this increases cooling of the ski surface = water freezes up quicker. As others have said, it sounds like the ski has come into contact with water (either on the ground or freezing fog) and then frozen on the way up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Never forget the Bear Grylls tip if you find yourself in a survival situation with skis but no skins is to pee on the skis (may require exposed hovering for the ladies  ). Then make yourself a sheep sleeping bag.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fatbob,
Would the women need to shuffle forward / back in a squat or would it be better to get a friend to pass the ski under and "splash it all over"? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
fatbob, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
I think it was ice on the base preventing the skis from sliding that she was talking about.
|
yes, I was. Because the skis "stuck" to the off ramp she was thrown off balance and ski bindings often fail to release in such slow speed falls.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| DB wrote: |
| robapplegate wrote: |
| Wind chill only affects living things, it doesn't apply to inanimate objects. |
Wind chill doesn't only affect human beings, hence the reson people blow on soup to cool it down. The wind causes more water to evaporate off and this increases cooling of the ski surface = water freezes up quicker. As others have said, it sounds like the ski has come into contact with water (either on the ground or freezing fog) and then frozen on the way up. |
I'm afraid that evaporative cooling is different to wind chill.
Definition of WINDCHILL : a still-air temperature that would have the same cooling effect on exposed human skin as a given combination of temperature and wind speed —called also chill factor, windchill factor, windchill index
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I agree with Scarpa. Windchill is a 'feels like' effect as the wind will take more heat from a warm object that it would otherwise lose in still air.
A pair of skis do not have warm blood and will only ever be ambient temperature.
It is possible for water droplets to exist at lower, warmer climes and these then freeze as a chair lift carries to to higher, cooler altitudes. I cannot think how the droplets could remain on the incredibly water resistant base of a ski though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Must admit I have never in a run bothered to take off a ski and take a look at its underside to see if a sheet of ice has been frozen there before setting off. Do people really do this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
It is possible for water droplets to exist at lower, warmer climes and these then freeze as a chair lift carries to to higher, cooler altitudes. I cannot think how the droplets could remain on the incredibly water resistant base of a ski though.
|
It's also possible for water droplets to exist at below zero, this frequently happens in clouds and is a big problem for aircraft which are fitted with anti-icing measures to stop wings being covered. Very cold wings decend into cloud with super cooled water droplets which hit the wing and instantly form clear ice.
For ice to form on the skis they must have been very cold and then got hit by water in some form. I can't see how passing through cloud (mist) would deposit enough on them though. rime ice (frosting) maybe but not this.
Just a thought though
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| saikee wrote: |
| Must admit I have never in a run bothered to take off a ski and take a look at its underside to see if a sheet of ice has been frozen there before setting off. Do people really do this? |
No, but you don't need too, you feel it. The ski won't slide properly with ice on the base, it sticks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| bar shaker wrote: |
I agree with Scarpa. Windchill is a 'feels like' effect as the wind will take more heat from a warm object that it would otherwise lose in still air.
A pair of skis do not have warm blood and will only ever be ambient temperature.
It is possible for water droplets to exist at lower, warmer climes and these then freeze as a chair lift carries to to higher, cooler altitudes. I cannot think how the droplets could remain on the incredibly water resistant base of a ski though. |
Still don't think we're quite there. A pair of skis that have been sitting in the valley bottom in the sun whilst you have some coffee might be at 10 degrees. Sit on a slow lift up on the shady side of the hill, if the air temperature is minus 5, they are clearly well above ambient temperature. With wind they cool down to air temperature more quickly than without it. So wind chill does affect inanimate objects.
Same with the soup. I doubt it's evaporative cooling; I think the dominant effect is wind chill. If you blow on your pork chop it cools more quickly than if you don't...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
James the Last, You miss the point. The skis cool to the ambient air temp, irrespective of if that air is still or it is blowing at 30mph. Wind will make the skis cool to the ambient level more quickly but once cooled, that's it, no more cooling.
The human body is constantly generating heat and we radiate this heat at rates depending on our insulation from clothing and any air stream we are exposed to. If our skin is exposed to a strong cold airstream, we radiate that heat more quickly and this constant draw of heat from us at a high flow rate feels like we are exposed to a colder temperature than the air temp really is. Our nervous system can sense this accelerated flow rate and we feel that the air must be colder than it really is. This feeling is called the Wind Chill Factor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The other half had this problem recently on a pair of hire ski's, they would ice up and just not run, anyway took them back to the shop, ski's were waxed and they were fine afterwards
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I wish I'd never said it now 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| bar shaker wrote: |
| I agree with Scarpa. Windchill is a 'feels like' effect as the wind will take more heat from a warm object that it would otherwise lose in still air. |
So if the person was dead it wouldn't be wind chill? What about if he'd been on the beers at apres ski and was drunk as a skunk, is it still wind chill even though he wouldn't be able to feel a sharp poke with a broom handle never mind the cold?
Wind increases the rate of evaporation wether it's a live snowboarder from Tamworth, a dead skier from Luton or water on a pair of snowblades. It also increases the heat transfer from the water on the ski to the surrounding air as the air layer on the ski is blown away. This causes the water to freeze at a much quicker rate than it normally would or at the same rate it would at a lower temperate, that temperature is expressed as the wind chill temperature.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| saikee wrote: |
You guys must pretty high up in the food chain of skiing.
I have never come across a run with a river in it. |
Clearly you haven't spent enough time in Scotland. Falling in the wee burn is an essential part of Scottish patch hopping.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
