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Snow tyres AND wheels

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
RobinS wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum, I think Spyderman, has said it all with regard to types of tyres, but also, I would find it very hard to take tyre advice from someone who advocates buying secondhand tyres! Is there such a thing as
Quote:

reputable sellers
of part worns? I've certainly never heard of one.


Ooooh Robin, I missed this one.

Have you ever bought a used car?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ratae Corieltauvorum, regarding the tyre choice for Land Rovers used by mountain rescue, I'd imaging they'd go with something like BFG A/T or other equivalent all terrains. If you think about where they need to get a Land Rover it tends to be up stony tracks, that would tear the sidewalks to pieces on a soft winter tyre. They need a tyre that isn't going to puncture when it sees it's first sharp rock. I'd imaging they just chain up if the snow is stopping progress.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Spyderman, what's the word in the Landy community about the replacement for the defender? I know retirement is still a while off but as it approaches I'm getting more and more tempted for a Defender, I always have been but their demise is making it stronger. I know they'll be around forever after they stop making them but I do have a hankering to blow the bank's piggy on a new one. So I suppose the question is do you think there"ll be a worthy replacement in a few years?
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barry, DC100 is definitely dead in the water, basically the USA market said they didn't want something that looked like a Toyota FJ Cruiser. What they want is a proper utility vehicle, not some stupid lifestyle concept, something that's easy to fix, super tough, versatile and very capable, basically a Defender that meets US vehicle regulations. Thank you America!

It's been confirmed by Land Rover that it's back to the drawing board to make a proper Defender replacement, one that isn't so full of electronic crap that it can't be fixed in a field. The true hardcore Land Rover owners all hated the DC100, but we're not so blinkered as to not see the need for a replacement.

In my mind the new one should have:
Front, Rear & Centre Locking Differentials
High/Low Gearbox
Wading depth of at least 900mm
Approach & Departure angles greater than 40 degrees
A heater that works
Better leg and elbow room, really an up to date ergonomic driving position
Hose able interior
Galvanised or Aluminium Chassis, rust is a serious problem.

I can do without the Terrain Response system, it works brilliantly on Discovery/Range Rover, but the sort of person that buys a Defender normally has an idea how to drive it any way, with locking Diffs you don't need all of that electronic stuff, just something else to go wrong when you fill it full of muddy water.

We'll wait and see what they come up with, in the meantime I'll stick to my 32 year old Series.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Spyderman, and the UK MOD will rent anything the Yanks say they can rent therefore no future for Land Rover wit the UK military!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Boredsurfing, I wouldn't be making anything based on orders from the MOD, they've got no money.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Spyderman, so true....
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I'm sorry but Winter tyres on the front and summer tyres on the rear of a FWD car is a recipe for disaster in the snow. You'll be going off backwards at the first downhill corner requiring any brakes. It's a really stupid idea to mix tyres across the axles in that way. Also as Spyderman pointed out, decent Winter tyres are not just about compound. They are also about tread pattern and sipes. I use Conti Winter Contacts on my FWD Volvo and they are superb for UK winter roads and have easily coped with the recent snowfalls. Obviously I use them on both axles too as I don't really want to be driving a car in the snow with bags of front grip and virtually none at the rear! Anyone advocating winter tyres on the front only doesn't know what they are talking about. If you are dumb enough to only fit winter tyres on one axle, it's actually safer to fit them on the rear, but you may as well not bother at all with winters if you are not going to fit a full set.

Here's one of countless videos demonstrating the effects of fitting winter tyres on front/rear and both axles. In summary, fitting winter tyres only on the rear causes excessive understeer (but at least you are still pointing forwards and have some control of the vehicle), fitting them only on the front causes massive oversteer that can quickly become uncontrollable however skilled the driver. Fitting them all round is the only sensible solution if you are serious about driving safely in the snow.


http://youtube.com/v/8cBSWEhimdA
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You speak from YouTube and listening to uvver interwebz gurus, I speak from experience, and I go down a 1:4 every day, and hey guess what. I'm just fine, but you are of course entitled like everyone else to your opinion, as that is what mine is, just an opinion Smile don't try and disguise it as a fact

Thankz for ur input
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Spyderman wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum, £2K is going to buy you a rot box Defender, a nice Series III but you've got to be hardcore tough to drive one or a decent Discovery. .


A Series III eh? From what time period are we talking?

There's a gorgeous little Landy pickup that belongs to a builder doing work up the track from us, it's a pre reg so 63 or earlier, actually think it's a 62.

I'd actually prefer something basic as possible, something with a little baggage as possible that I can get my kit on and deal with myself.

Nice plain bench seat and just the SWB enclosed back so I can use it for the dump, or maybe even stick a few of my eldest's mates in when the snow comes down around here.

What I'd really like is an 80s Toyota FJ, but I may as well aim for a 2012 G Wagon at the price and premium they fetch. or at the very least a real beater Suzuki SJ4xx

Round Bath, it's all steep hills and narrow roads, the Suzuki is brilliant at that, but if I had something like the Landy, I'd be tempted out to the wilder tracks and places, and possibly even start climbing again, which as a 48 year old Dad of two young kids I don't really get a chance to do anymore


You have a Series III I take it?

I don't want a Disco of any kind, I'm not joining that "set" down here, I can't f**king stand wax jackets and Hunter wellies

EDIT: OK, according to W*k*pedia, Series III is 71-85? Does it really cover that wide a time spread?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Ratae Corieltauvorum,

Series III 1971 - 1985
Series II 1961 - 1971

If you can get pre-1973 you'll be tax free. Forget mileage, it's all about condition, rust is the killer, chassis & bulkhead. Try and get one with a replacement galvanised chassis.

I now have only my Series III 1981, I sold my Series I 1954 a few months ago.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Spyderman wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum,

Series III 1971 - 1985
Series II 1961 - 1971

If you can get pre-1973 you'll be tax free. Forget mileage, it's all about condition, rust is the killer, chassis & bulkhead. Try and get one with a replacement galvanised chassis.

I now have only my Series III 1981, I sold my Series I 1954 a few months ago.


OK, the series II sounds right up my street considering my history with the DVLA and SORN wink

But I'll keep an open mind and see what comes along, it may have to take second place in the queue behind a decent road legal quad.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Ratae Corieltauvorum, You will pay a premium for a tax free one.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Spyderman wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum, You will pay a premium for a tax free one.


Hmmm, sounds logical, OK, open mind required then.

You mentioned that you couldn't get snow tyres for your particular wheels, so I looked round some Landy forums, and I see that some people obviously on newer wheels are using X5 tyres?

Presumably you could conceivably build your Landy to accept modern wheels, but yours is original?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Ratae Corieltauvorum,

Is it legal to drive a car with only two winter tyres on the front and normal/standard/summer tyres on the rear in Austria and Germany?

Why do the European Automobile associations (e.g. ADAC, ÖAMTC) always say 4 and not 2 winter tyres should be fitted?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
You speak from YouTube and listening to uvver interwebz gurus, I speak from experience, and I go down a 1:4 every day, and hey guess what. I'm just fine, but you are of course entitled like everyone else to your opinion, as that is what mine is, just an opinion Smile don't try and disguise it as a fact

Thankz for ur input


What does your insurance company say? Here in the Austrian Alps in the event of a crash they probably wouldn't pay out as the vehicle is deemed "not fit for for purpose". You could be faced with a damaged car, no (or reduced) insurnace payout and a private prosecution esp if someone dies (manslaughter charge).
PS Laws aren't opinions.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
chocksaway wrote:
Quote:

And on a front wheel drive car snow or winters are just fine on the driven wheels, ask a large proportion of people who live and drive round the Cairngorms.

Apart from in France where its illegal.

Can we all go back to the 'We know about winter tyres thread' where there is a lot more common sense and less vitriol'


sorry to back peddle the thread but i'm not sure if thats true. I know a number of people in chamonix who just fit them to the front, and the number of people driving round with alloys on the back and steels on the front points to the fact that is quite common.

I was also pulled buy the police in december when I only had them on the front (correct now Wink) and they couldnt have cared less.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
DB wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum,

Is it legal to drive a car with only two winter tyres on the front and normal/standard/summer tyres on the rear in Austria and Germany?

Why do the European Automobile associations (e.g. ADAC, ÖAMTC) always say 4 and not 2 winter tyres should be fitted?


Is it legal to drive with all summer tyres in those countries you mentioned in Winter?

Just one final word on this, because I've moved on.

For the past 4-5 winters I've used winter/snow tyres (semantics omitted) on all wheels, and have been very happy, and would always prefer this.

Ideally I'd like to have a set of full winter tyres on steel wheels and a full set of studless snow tyres on steel rim in my workshop.

However I'm somewhat restricted by cashflow and have been for the past 3-4 years, so I've tried to make do with what resources are available to me.

Now...at the end of last Winter, the pair of Conti Winter Contacts I had on the back were close to the wear limiter, so when summer came I put Potenzas back on the front and set of part worn Turanza's I had on the back, with the intention of selling the car as we'd managed to save up enough with a trade in for an E series 7 seat Merc from around 2003-2005, and I was at that point going to get a set of steel wheels and fit winters to them.

However as with all plans, the money we'd saved went to repairing some water damage from the excessive rain to the block paving on our drive, some masonry work on the retaining walls round the house and the triple excess on an insurance claim, where I hit a large chunk of limestone on the road in the W of Ireland (dry sunny day by the way). Incidentally, the chunk of wall was lodged under the engine bay protector and I chose to reverse off it, rather than let it do untold damage to the engine bay back, by continuing to drive forwards, and this helped to rip the whole valance off. While reversing also and trying to keep the chunk of rock away from the calipers, discs, ball end area, I managed to get the offside dented against a fence post I hadn't spotted, and when I tried to claim from LV via Kwik Fit insurance, their assessor said my claim amounted to 3 "movements" and hence the excess would be £400 x 3.

Hence my E Class plans were dashed on the rocks of financial sadness and I resigned myself to sticking with my 2002 A4 which now looks like a banger racer Blush

Roll on to Winter, and I simply didn't get the pair of Michelin Alpins and pair of Sottozeros I had spare fitted at the right time, but was able to get the two Michs in the car and fitted and then the occurrence as alluded to in the OP happened.

So in reality, I'm not actually advocating ANYTHING, apart from beware of locking wheel nuts.

You can wag your finger at me all you like, but I do know that all the people both in my own car park outside, and the car parks at my children's school are unable to use the space....I am, and yesterday while dropping off my youngest's violin to his school, there were two Mums stuck, one in an Evoque Very Happy and the other in a Passat. using technique alone I was able to get her out in seconds, the Passat that is. I left the woman in the Evoque as she'd called her husband, who was "on the way".Shocked I parked on the deepest and slushiest and iciest part, all in the name of science you understand and I was able to easily get back out, using slow application of power to the front wheels and intelligent use of the steering on my driven wheels.
Now, if you read my posts carefully you will see I have experienced some oversteer as a result of having summer tyres on the back, but as I don't slalom across frozen lakes, corner at 75mph on hairpins or any of the other gaieties as shown in the above Michelin video, I'm pretty OK.

If you know Bath, you will know it is very hilly, and our own village has several 1:4 (25%) hills which in fairness even studless snow tyres struggle with, so we're really into the realms of guesswork on much of what we're all getting hot under the collar about.

Spyderman has his POV, and of all, his is the most informed, many of the others sound like Mail and Express readers and Interwebz/Wikipedians.

What I'm telling you is my real life experience.

I get paid today, and hopefully will be able to get up to Leicester next week which is where my pair of Sottozero's are (don't ask) and I will put those on the two rims that have the two worst summer tyres on.

However, please be aware. If you think that with four Winter tyres on you won't get ANY oversteer in a FWD car, then be prepared to crash, and even die, because you will. Maybe less than summer tyres, but you will still get the back stepping out, and again this is not an opinion, this is my experience, and in my case that was with Conti Winter Contacts. Those were replaced with the Sottozeros, which I found better on the rear, however I need also to take into account that it is highly probable that I changed my driving style somewhat to cope with what I felt the edge was with the Contis. Driving experience evolves with the years, and so does technique. I always select the correct gear, I drive smoothly, I don't change velocity quickly (speed x direction) and I'm constantly aware that no matter what I do on a left hander, the person coming in the opposite direction may be on my side of the road.

I think the summary is I drive with utmost caution around bath in the Winter, and the winter tyres help the front with traction, but I'd always sooner have 4 brand new winters on every winter, but then I'd alsoprefer to drive a Q7, and have least another 2 acres of land........and a villa in the Med, and Diesel jeans..........but I live in a real world.

I think as I've said before, anybody who relies on rubber or other driving hardware before driving technique is much more likely to experience butthurt.

Hope this helps

Seán


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 25-01-13 11:14; edited 1 time in total
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eddiethebus wrote:
chocksaway wrote:
Quote:

And on a front wheel drive car snow or winters are just fine on the driven wheels, ask a large proportion of people who live and drive round the Cairngorms.

Apart from in France where its illegal.

Can we all go back to the 'We know about winter tyres thread' where there is a lot more common sense and less vitriol'


sorry to back peddle the thread but i'm not sure if thats true. I know a number of people in chamonix who just fit them to the front, and the number of people driving round with alloys on the back and steels on the front points to the fact that is quite common.

I was also pulled buy the police in December when I only had them on the front (correct now Wink) and they couldnt have cared less.


Eddie, be careful posting your experience, many here don't like that sort of nonsense......I know full well that many Alpinists use snows on the front only, my two Bavarian friends do usually, one a Skoda Fabia, the other a Passat.

Most people fill their head with what they read, and they're not at all interested in peoples experience
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB wrote:

Here in the Austrian Alps in the event of a crash they probably wouldn't pay out as the vehicle is deemed "not fit for for purpose". You could be faced with a damaged car, no (or reduced) insurnace payout and a private prosecution esp if someone dies (manslaughter charge).
PS Laws aren't opinions.


Probably? Could? What you don't actually KNOW? Shocked

Oh and if I was driving in the Austrian Alps, I'd probably be another person, with another life.......read the whole thread...it helps
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
DB wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum,

Is it legal to drive a car with only two winter tyres on the front and normal/standard/summer tyres on the rear in Austria and Germany?

Why do the European Automobile associations (e.g. ADAC, ÖAMTC) always say 4 and not 2 winter tyres should be fitted?


Is it legal to drive with all summer tyres in those countries you mentioned in Winter?



Not while the roads experience winter conditions (snow / ice).
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
DB wrote:

Here in the Austrian Alps in the event of a crash they probably wouldn't pay out as the vehicle is deemed "not fit for for purpose". You could be faced with a damaged car, no (or reduced) insurnace payout and a private prosecution esp if someone dies (manslaughter charge).
PS Laws aren't opinions.


Probably? Could? What you don't actually KNOW? Shocked

Oh and if I was driving in the Austrian Alps, I'd probably be another person, with another life.......read the whole thread...it helps


If it is deemed that winter tyres could have prevented the accident the insurnace company don't pay out the full amount. In reality if two cars crash in winter here in Austria (during winter conditions) and one car doesn't have 4 good winter tyres on then the insurnace company of the other car says it was the other drivers fault and refuse to pay.

I know someone who picked up a rental car from munich thinking that it automatically had winter tyres on (he was Austrian and the Austrian car hire companies always put 4 winter tyres on in winter). The car was involved in a crash and he was faced with a multi thousand pound bill and a prosecution from the police.

Many people drive around on balding summer tyres (less than 1.6mm) and get away with it; but it doesn't make it right or make them any less of a tösser for driving round with an unsafe vehicle putting other people at risk.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:

So in reality, I'm not actually advocating ANYTHING, apart from beware of locking wheel nuts.

many of the others sound like Mail and Express readers and Interwebz/Wikipedians.

What I'm telling you is my real life experience.




lol! lotta points just to advocate wariness of locking nuts!

you kicked this off so you will get others' opinions - its the internet afterall

my apologies but I think you need to try to butch up a bit more when describing your real-life experience hooning around the badlands of Somerset! I need to head down there in a couple of months, best sipe and stud up my tyres eh Toofy Grin
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DB wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
DB wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum,

Is it legal to drive a car with only two winter tyres on the front and normal/standard/summer tyres on the rear in Austria and Germany?

Why do the European Automobile associations (e.g. ADAC, ÖAMTC) always say 4 and not 2 winter tyres should be fitted?


Is it legal to drive with all summer tyres in those countries you mentioned in Winter?



Not while the roads experience winter conditions (snow / ice).


Most European countries that experience harsh winters have legislation in place, however the last time I looked the DFT, doesn't even have any sort of policy and this is the first year where I've heard Motoring Commentators mention winter boots, but they'll still bang out the old mantra of taking out blankets, flasks of hot drinks, squares of carpet (they don't say what sort of carpet, hessian backed, Berber, Axminster, stain resistant), and the last time I had a breakdown recovery which was delivered through the AA, he remarked on my snow tyres, with a grin and said something akin, to "that's a bit over the top for this country" type of thing Shocked
A lot of people here still laugh at me when I advocate the use of Winter tyres at all, and the guy in the next office has laughed openly in my face when somebody was aklsing me about whether winter "really worked"
Hardly anybody knows the effect of temp on the compound of their tyres below 6-7degC and even when you tell them, they have a vacant look in their eyes and in general it's the typical British mentality.

Unless they read it in the tabloids, or Cheryl Cole uses them, they ain't interested


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 25-01-13 11:36; edited 1 time in total
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
barry wrote:


my apologies but I think you need to try to butch up a bit more when describing your real-life experience hooning around the badlands of Somerset! I need to head down there in a couple of months, best sipe and stud up my tyres eh Toofy Grin


I'll put the kettle on and get the cheese at room temperature Madeye-Smiley
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Has Bath been hit by an ice age and installed some mountains since I was last there in the late 90's?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
Has Bath been hit by an ice age and installed some mountains since I was last there in the late 90's?


Bath doesn't need an Ice Age, just 10mm of snow, then it gets constipation from digesting too many Discos, Range Rovers, Ms, MLs, Evoques, X3s, X5s, etc, etc, etc.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I'd personally never consider having less than 4 winters on my FWD or RWD vehicles, but I know that many people who live in snowier parts and have used winter tyres before I knew how to drive have always used just 2 on the front of FWD (2 on rear of the FWD = no traction, 2 on front of RWD = no traction, 2 on rear of RWD = no steering). Like anything in life it comes down to what you know, what your experience is and what you feel is reasonable, until legislation supervenes. Just 2 on the front of FWD will be much better than all summers for getting around but much more dangerous due to oversteer fishtailing than 4 winters, so they mitigate by driving slowly so as to lessen the risk of overcoming friction too easily when carefully changing vector/velocity by steering/braking/accelerating gently.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
DB wrote:
Has Bath been hit by an ice age and installed some mountains since I was last there in the late 90's?


Bath doesn't need an Ice Age, just 10mm of snow, then it gets constipation from digesting too many Discos, Range Rovers, Ms, MLs, Evoques, X3s, X5s, etc, etc, etc.


.............. and people in old A4's doing doughnuts?


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 25-01-13 11:44; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ok, good game for this thread - 4 winter/snow/frost/chilly tyres recommended

1. drive to shop or similar errand

2. drive home

3. winner is person with least number of clutch depresses (zero will be the undisputed champion)

4. start...............your....................engines

(automatic transmissions not allowed, driving all the way in first means disqualification)
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

sorry to back peddle the thread but i'm not sure if thats true.

I'm not sure it's true either. The first time I ever bought snow tyres, without any clue, I went to a tyre dealer in Sallanches (France) and asked their advice. they could easily have sold me 4, but they sold me two, for the driving wheels, and told me that would be fine. That was a few years ago, the law might have changed, but I doubt it.

It is illegal in France to have different types of tyres on the same axle, though.

However, when I lost the back end - did a 180 degree skid whilst taking a left hand junction at an incredibly slow and cautious speed, I learnt better. Fortunately I was going up hill, there was nothing coming down, and I was able to control the skid (I did a session on a skid pan before embarking on Alpine driving - it was fun and useful). I now have 4. It costs no more than having 2, in the longer term. After this winter I shall have 4 part-worn Vredestein Snowtrac tyres, which are no longer 100% effective in snow, having lost a little of their tread, and I will have them put on when I get back from the mountains, and use them all summer (and probably next summer too, they still have plenty of tread for summer conditions).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:


Spyderman has his POV, and of all, his is the most informed, many of the others sound like Mail and Express readers and Interwebz/Wikipedians.



That's reassuring to know that being a bus passenger and Kwik-Fit user is preferential to reading the Mail or Express


Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
As for dangerous I'm insure where you got your info from, but it sound like either a bloke on the bus or the manager of your local Kwik Fit


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 25-01-13 11:50; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
DB wrote:
Ratae Corieltauvorum wrote:
DB wrote:
Has Bath been hit by an ice age and installed some mountains since I was last there in the late 90's?


Bath doesn't need an Ice Age, just 10mm of snow, then it gets constipation from digesting too many Discos, Range Rovers, Ms, MLs, Evoques, X3s, X5s, etc, etc, etc.


.............. and people in old A4's doing doughnuts?


So far, I've just managed about a slightly warped cheese straw Cool
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pam w wrote:
(I did a session on a skid pan before embarking on Alpine driving - it was fun and useful). .


It's a shame, that this isn't built into driver training in general.

Give me technique over rubber, ESP, ABS and every other form of traction control.

I'm lucky as an ex motorcyclist that I do understand the way wheeled vehicles work, and don't work, and even a lot of motorcyclists don't fully understand opposite lock, despite the fact that it's the only thing that really gets them round roundabouts effectively.

I saw the UK written test a few weeks ago Shocked

How that prepares you to drive escapes me.

I love the idae that you can pass your test in a 1990 Nissan Micra, and then drive a Porsche down the motorways and across Europe.

COUGH*FOOTBALLERS*COUGH rolling eyes
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Spyderman wrote:
That's reassuring to know that being a bus passenger and Kwik-Fit user is preferential to reading the Mail or Express


Unless you read the Mail or Express on your way to work at Kwik Fit Puzzled
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You'll need to Register first of course.
This thread is like trying to convince a smoker that smoking is bad for them, but them saying it's fine because they haven't died of lung cancer rolling eyes
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Spyderman wrote:
This thread is like trying to convince a smoker that smoking is bad for them, but them saying it's fine because they haven't died of lung cancer rolling eyes


Funny you should say that, my dad died of lung cancer when I was 19 (1983) where my Mum is still puffing away at 89, although she's quite lost any plots that she may originally have had.

PS: Two posts ago you made me feel slightly bad about making a slightly personal comment about you, now you just made me feel OK again
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Winter tyre manufacturers and 4WD car makers often use high alpine roads for testing (e.g. Sölden, Austria), maybe they should go to Bath for "real life winter experiences".
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ratae Corieltauvorum, My Aunty always said smoking never did her any harm. She died of lung cancer 3 years ago, not before they'd amputated her right leg through poor circulation.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
AA men can get those locking wheel nuts off no problem at all.
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