Avalanche Shovel

A snowHead

I've seen various versions of these things, with plastic blades (not convinced) with metal blades (more convinced) and with a range of interesting handle setups and designs that seem to be fairly straightforward but I suspect some could freeze (not good) in really cold weather.

So my question really is what is wrong with one of these? Note this is an overpriced version for reference, but is the same design as the army surplus ones you can get in a bag for about £3.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NATO-ARMY-SURPLUS-FOLDING-SHOVEL-ENTRENCHING-TOOL-heavy-duty-camping-spade-/221121129791#vi-content

You can drop the blade and lock it at 90 deg for scraping snow away, or straight out for plain old digging. Having used one they seem stronger than most of the aluminium jobbies I see from the various ski manufacturers, have less things to go wrong, just interested in why I've never seen one used. They also seem fairly straightforward to open, even with gloves on, and lock in position.

They also come with a nice holster bag, so you don't need one of those expensive backpacks with a shovel holder on them and a gazillion straps to get caught on chairlifts.

So why isn't everyone using one?

A snowHead

cos we're way to cool in school to use anything but the latest brand chic

although they could be a bit heavy too I reckon?

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Having seen both types of shovel, I think you would dig quicker with an avalanche shovel as the blade is 2+ times as big as the NATO type.

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With a pointy end and serrated edges that thing looks like it'd be rubbish at quickly shifting large amounts of snow and I also wouldn't want one anywhere near my face or hands if I was the buried victim in a mock rescue. With well rated kit, designed for the job, available new for £40 or so, why would you part with the best part of £20 for something that isn't. Puzzled

I'm out.

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i have an old Mammut shovel which is similar to that but without the serrated egde and point. it isn't very efficient because the handle is short and the blade is small

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That would be very cool but you'd have to wear leather boots, wood skis and carry a St Bernard around you neck instead of a transceiver Smile

Or you could go for something lighter that's able to shift more snow and not designed to dig a fox hole or double as a weapon.

Laughing

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BCA B1 Compact
£22.50 a bargain a proper shovel designed for the job, nice and light from a good UK supplier
Just buy it, should the worst happen, your mate will thank you

http://www.edgeandwax.co.uk/728923/products/bca_b_1_compact_avalanche_shovel.aspx

Phil

After all it is free

qwertyuiop7,

qwertyuiop7,
Good find at tha price Phil. We have one B1 with the extending handle and one with the probe inside. advantage with the extender, the handle is shorter for packing, but the compact is also short

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qwertyuiop7, Toofy Grin

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I have a military folding shovel in the boot of my car, they are great but as said, very heavy, only a small blade and not much good for shifting large volumes. Better than nowt though.

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Scarpa, I had the same, but this winter I looked for it and it had vanished along with my ice scrapers and de-icer, I've turned the place upside down and still not found it.

But bear in mind that the amount of snow you can shift with any shovel is limited by the strength of your arms anyway. You might well find that a NATO sized shovelfull of snow is about the same weight as you could comfortably lift with the other shovel.

You know it makes sense.

I was working on the principle of avalanche debris being lumps of hard and nasty stuff - the normal shovels look great for shifting powder about, but what is the reality when it happens?

Plus you can get cool backpacks with a shovel pocket from the army surplus for about a fiver too...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Monium, Standard shovels (alloy anyhow) work fine. Usually one person hacking away and then one behind clearing debris. Those army folding shovels are way too much weight to my mind and with the blade shape not suited to lift much with one scoop at all.

A snowHead

^ NATO squadies are ripped though

A snowHead

Monium, Snow is not earth, clay, rocks and roots . . . horses for courses man, horses for courses . . . someone pointed out a DIY shop shovel that is an avalanche tool without the silly sticker price, have a wander and get something appropriate for the job.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Looking at the weight of your average ave shovel and an entrenching tool, theres only about the weight of a half-litre bottle of water in it...

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N.B. If anyone has any bright ideas about where I have put my folding nato type spade, then please chip in, I'm running out of places to look - I wouldn't mind finding it to sling back in the car for emergencies.

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What I found when shoveling avalanche debris, is that the lumps can often roll about on the shovel. My avalanche shovel has quite a flat 'bowl' shape to it, and the lumps didn't fall straight off as they were caught by the edges.

With the nato shovel. I think the blade's too flat, and while it'll lift snow, I can see it sliding off before it's been properly removed from the dig area

And they are MUCH heavier than an avalanche shovel. After digging for 10 minutes, at altitude, that weight will be quite noticeable.

After all it is free

Was digging around in avalanche debris with a plastic blade and was impressed with its ability to deal with compacted snow.

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I saw these in http://www.costco.com/.product.11618660.html costco Trafford park for around £15 for two ( I think ) if they're of any use to anyone

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They are 15.99 plus VAT in costco for a 2 pack. I picked one up on Friday. Seem pretty good quality and not too heavy.

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It seems a good price seeing as snow and rock shovels start at £30 Cool

Would be interesting to see how well it does in real avi debris.

You know it makes sense.

NATO shovel - good for intended use but no way as a avy tool!! Its made to be a versatile, 'jack of all trades' type compact shovel. Spends most of it's time digging 8ft/6ft/2ft holes in the Brecon Beacons!!! wink

Get a specific avalanche shovel. Metal - always.

I'm surprised AvalancheAcademy hasn't jumped in with both feet on this one.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

How is the coffee this morning folks?? Looks like Gad found a good deal.

I the real mountains (not the internet based ones) Any snow shoveling device that's regularly (preferably always) carried is considered a good one.

Yes the bendy plastic things that you hold the sides and don't have a handle are considered less effective by mountain professionals, but in a pinch they do work better than skis or a snowboard by a country mile.

If you are worried about price then Decathalon/Quechua/Vieux Campeur always stock avie shovels starting at 19€.
Yes some of them are plastic based. BUT a plastic or should I say Lexan shovel form one of the major Beacon manufactures is as good as any metal (Alu,steel,titanium) in real use.
If the snow you are trying to dig through is tougher than your shovel, your buddies are very dead already!

The serious point here is not the shovel, it's remembering to carry it and then knowing what to do with it....and that's your ski/board buddie not you! (because you are the one they are trying to dig out!)

A snowHead

Idris,

A snowHead

Everything is a compromise, the best shovel for shifting huge amounts of snow I've come across was a grain shovel. About 2ft 6ins by 2ft 6ins but quite heavy and to big to fit onto the back of your pack. The weight of the snow on your shovel isn't the problem it's braking it up into manageable chunks. The size of most avalanche shovels is a compromise, small enough and light enough to fit on your pack and just about big enough to dig out snow in a hurry. If you ever have to dig someone out for real you'll wish you had the grain shovel in your hands instead of the 6ins by 6ins NATO thing.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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I guess it's a joke. Obviously no one in their right minds would buy one of those when you can get kiddie's sandcastle shovels for less. And they will weigh a lot less too.

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I think Ill stick to my Ortovox Kodiak - A word to anyone who ever wants to play off piste with me (when I get off piste myself), If you are ever stupid enough and disrespectful enough of my life to turn up with a shitty cheap shovel, I shall first break your shovel over your thoughtless head and then get mine out to finish the job Twisted Evil

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@PaulC1984, isn't that just the issue though - I guess with avi rescue gear (with the possible exception of the transceiver which serves both needs) you are always carrying it for someone else, not for yourself. You kind of have to rely on the person you ski with thinking as much of your life as you hope they hope they do of their own and hope the feelings are reciprocal. I was channel hoping last night and the last 10 minutes of an episode of Xena were on. The last quote seems to sum this up:

Macon: (after Xena saves his life from the sea even though he has tried to kill her) Why? I'm a killer. Why did ya come back - what do you expect?
Xena: From you - nothing. From me - nothing less.
(Macon gets up and walks away shaking his head)
Gabrielle: He doesn't get it does he?
Xena: Not a clue

After all it is free

@Megamum, xena god thats a blast from the past.

You are right though. I went and looked at all the gear I bought, took recommendations, trialled it - the price was secondary to me. I would hope the people I chose to ski with would do the same. Ive heard people say it before - get the best avi gear and then give it to your mate!!

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and you have 400acres and 2 horses to practice with Happy

- totaly with you, i prefer to be prepared. whats a few hundred pounds if one day it may save your life or anothers. its just like buying insurance only it really could be life insurance!

Help!!

Avalanche Shovel

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