 Poster: A snowHead
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I'll let you know soon. I was taken down the hill in a meatwagon at les Menuires a month ago. The piste rescue cost EU 430 and they didn't ask for payment - just my contact details. The medical treatment cost EU 420 and I had to pay there and then - or rather my sons had to find a cashpoint and extract a large amount of money. My insurer hasn't settled yet and I have had a phone call and a letter from the piste rescue chasing payment.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dorset Andy wrote: |
An ambulance was then called and took us to the medical centre where the doctor refused to examine my daughter until I paid 300 euros cash. |
It is normal in France to pay doctors directly then claim the money back on insurance. I would expect a resort medical center to accept credit cards. I do have trouble wondering what on earth a resort doctor could do to a broken wrist that justified 300 euros, surely a job for a hospital?
There are some odd practices in ski resorts. A few years back the French press covered an English guy who fell at Arc 1800 and was taken from 1800 to 1600 by ambulance despite there being a doctor in 1800. He came away with 800 euros worth of bills. It turned out that the mayor in Bourg St Maurice had a cozy arrangement with the doctor in 1600 and had instructed the pisteurs to take any cases to that doctor.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd rather share the slopes with people who take out adequate cover, drunk or otherwise.
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the poster you were sneering at has an excellent insurance policy, I'm really not clear what you're complaining about. And you didn't answer my question.
However, given that you'd shoot snowboarders and people without helmets I suppose it's a bit optimistic expecting any rational discussion.  If you are hit by a skier with a bobble hat he is likely to do you less damage than someone in a helmet but let's not allow the facts to interfere with our prejudices, eh what?
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MontyBlue, have you spoken to the insurance company about why they are taking so long? It's very bad practice and perhaps giving rise to some of the problems described above. You should chase them till they pay.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I'd rather share the slopes with people who take out adequate cover, drunk or otherwise.
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the poster you were sneering at has an excellent insurance policy, I'm really not clear what you're complaining about. And you didn't answer my question.
However, given that you'd shoot snowboarders and people without helmets I suppose it's a bit optimistic expecting any rational discussion. If you are hit by a skier with a bobble hat he is likely to do you less damage than someone in a helmet but let's not allow the facts to interfere with our prejudices, eh what? |
excellent in so far as it's not as good as Carte Neige?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
excellent in so far as it's not as good as Carte Neige?
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very much better than Carte Neige, actually (which is why it's more expensive). You don't seem to have followed the discussion.
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| pam w wrote: |
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excellent in so far as it's not as good as Carte Neige?
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very much better than Carte Neige, actually (which is why it's more expensive). You don't seem to have followed the discussion. |
sorry pam w, I'm not a "super snowhead" how can my opinion possibly count, have a great season telling everyone else what to do and what to think.
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you could easily be a super-snowhead if you were prepared to contribute a few quid. However, if you are not able to continue the discussion using reason and evidence, by all means flounceo off and bang the door behind you, resorting to more insults. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Standee wrote: |
| then please. let me know in advance where you're going on your Ski trips, it sounds to me like you can't really afford to be there and I don't want to bump into you on a lift, or in a bar. Actually, £1500 for a week for 4, I imagine you don't go to the resorts I do, which is a huge relief. |
That must count as the rudest post I've ever seen on Snowheads. I'm sure I can be ascerbic sometimes, but Layne doens't deserve that. Just because, Standee, you are stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for the same service twice doesn't mean everybody else has to or wants to.
| Standee wrote: |
| why would anyone ski in France without Carte Neige??? It's about £3 a day ffs! |
Why not stand in the shower and rip up ten pound notes. They're only tenners "fgs" - which is the same as the daily unnecessary cost for Layne's family..
| miranda wrote: |
| I wonder if the drunk guy who climbed up the chairlift in Val d'Isere and had to get rescued by the fire brigade (rather than piste rescue) in the early hours of the morning got a bill? |
I read somewhere that people were so amused that he received no bill. No idea if it's true or not.
| Jehu wrote: |
| She was being loaded into a sledge without analgesia (which the pisteurs cannot administer) when she happened to mention that she had taken Carré Neige. Immediately, a helicopter, a doctor and a shot of morphine were called! |
Anybody know how Carré Neige actually works? I *think* (never having paid much attention to it) that it is a proper insurance policy - rather than a pre-payment for the resort's own medical services. Accordingly this practice sounds like insurance fraud - perpetrated by the resort medical/piste staff - rather than 'caring for skiers better' when they are on CN.
And finally, pam w I'm so sorry to hear you're now off games. How gutting for you - thought you'd done rather a lot of daytime posting recently. Hope you are running around again soon!
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 21-01-13 17:49; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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To a point everyone's right here!
Those that feel that they should be covered by their own regular Travel insurance... you are (provided it includes winter sports).... so if, heaven forbid, you have an accident make sure you have, proof of Insurance, Identification with Photo, and a method of payment as that's what you (and each member of your party) needs to carry on you at all times. Don't complain that's the way it is.
For those that can't be bothered to carry ID, Insurance docs, cash and/or visa card then you might think paying €29 for "no quibble rescue" is worth it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Standee,
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| you don't see skiing as an extreme sport, family holiday or otherwise? |
We could argue about the term "extreme sport" but what is important is that it is a activity that needs to be reported to an insurance company when taking out insurance and that will cost more money to insure. I have no argument with that.
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| I'd rather share the slopes with people who take out adequate cover |
I specifically look for insurance companies that cover off piste skiing without a guide and have adequate third party liability cover. So you are safe with me and mine. I rarely drink during the day either.
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| skiing is expensive for a reason |
Skiing is as expensive as you want to make it, it's not inherently expensive IMO. Contrary to the impression you seem to have I don't spare the expense where I believe it is necessary or is worth it for the enjoyment. I've bought CN in the past but right now I believe my insurance policy will do the job. It's not a cheap policy. I could of course bung another £25 on CN, just the same as I could buy petrol on the motorway rather than a supermarket, I could pay to have the apartment cleaned rather than doing it myself. But then I may have to sacrifice the whole skiing holiday for that and I would rather not.
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| marcellus wrote: |
To a point everyone's right here!
Those that feel that they should be covered by their own regular Travel insurance... you are (provided it includes winter sports).... so if, heaven forbid, you have an accident make sure you have, proof of Insurance, Identification with Photo, and a method of payment as that's what you (and each member of your party) needs to carry on you at all times. Don't complain that's the way it is.
For those that can't be bothered to carry ID, Insurance docs, cash and/or visa card then you might think paying €29 for "no quibble rescue" is worth it. |
Is it genuinely 'no quibble'? Travel insurance includes medical screening. Does carte neige require you to declare medical stuff?
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You know it makes sense.
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OliviaDB, Carte Neige (which is an annual licence which inclides insurance and gives you membershop of your loca French ski club) requires you to send a letter from your doctor stating that you are in good health within 15 days of taking out the policy according to their website. I think I have translated that correctly.
Carré Neige , which you buy as a top up to your weekly lift pass doesn't. Nor does Assur Gliss which is our local lift pass insurance alternative.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OliviaDB, CN will get you off the hill but if, for example, you have a heart attack in your hotel room after a vigorous session of apres-ski activity, my understanding is that it'll do you no good at all. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Carre /Carte Neige are not necessary for holidaymakers if you've already got travel insurance. If you can only afford one whilst you're on holiday, have the one that will cover you for all sorts of stuff, not just mountain sports.
I have never provided Carte Neige with a doctor's letter and they've paid out for my medical expenses, no problem.
I think the Carre Neige policy is quite clear about what it covers... In practice, some doctors/rescue teams/ambulances in France will accept an insurer's guarantee, some won't and will ask for payment which you then have to claim back from your insurers. A British holidymaker should only get Carre Neige if they don't want to risk having to pay for rescue and ambulance and then claim it back. Either way, you will still have to pay the doctor upfront and claim it back with Carre Neige AFTER you've claimed back what you can via EHIC.
It won't necessarily get you drugs and a "free ride in a helicopter!" if you don't want to get sledged down the mountain and it is only mountain sports insurance, not a general illness and accident insurance.
It will repatriate you if you injure yourself skiing but it will only cover in-resort medical expenses that are outstanding after you've claimed back as much as you can using EHIC, and only up to €3000 (though actually after initial exam and X-ray, a couple of leg braces, lots of physio and an operation, my outstanding medical expenses post EHIC were nowhere near that amount).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
OliviaDB, Carte Neige (which is an annual licence which inclides insurance and gives you membershop of your loca French ski club) requires you to send a letter from your doctor stating that you are in good health within 15 days of taking out the policy according to their website. I think I have translated that correctly.
Carré Neige , which you buy as a top up to your weekly lift pass doesn't. Nor does Assur Gliss which is our local lift pass insurance alternative. |
Ah, interesting. I was confused and assuming the two things were the same, too.
Randomly, since I've been considering it - what kind of insurance do people get if they're doing seasons, or more than a few weeks? My four weeks this year only just fits within my insurance X amount of days of winter sports. And I'm hoping to do another/a couple of weekends. How do people doing seasons do it? Contemplating doing a season (sort of, I'd still have to work, but maybe I could shift my working hours so I could ski a couple of hours a day too.).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OliviaDB, Carte Neige would cover you for skiing injuries, but not if you fell down outside the bar on the way home. I've got insuranc this winter with MPI brokers which covers us for our 5 weeks skiing. I believe they do insurance for seasonaires too. http://www.mpibrokers.com/
miranda, interesting about the lack of doctor's letter as the application online does state you should send one.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Standee wrote: |
| then please. let me know in advance where you're going on your Ski trips, it sounds to me like you can't really afford to be there and I don't want to bump into you on a lift, or in a bar. Actually, £1500 for a week for 4, I imagine you don't go to the resorts I do, which is a huge relief. |
That must count as the rudest post I've ever seen on Snowheads. I'm sure I can be ascerbic sometimes, but Layne doens't deserve that. Just because, Standee, you are stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for the same service twice doesn't mean everybody else has to or wants to.
| Standee wrote: |
| why would anyone ski in France without Carte Neige??? It's about £3 a day ffs! |
Why not stand in the shower and rip up ten pound notes. They're only tenners "fgs" - which is the same as the daily unnecessary cost for Layne's family..
| miranda wrote: |
| I wonder if the drunk guy who climbed up the chairlift in Val d'Isere and had to get rescued by the fire brigade (rather than piste rescue) in the early hours of the morning got a bill? |
I read somewhere that people were so amused that he received no bill. No idea if it's true or not.
| Jehu wrote: |
| She was being loaded into a sledge without analgesia (which the pisteurs cannot administer) when she happened to mention that she had taken Carré Neige. Immediately, a helicopter, a doctor and a shot of morphine were called! |
Anybody know how Carré Neige actually works? I *think* (never having paid much attention to it) that it is a proper insurance policy - rather than a pre-payment for the resort's own medical services. Accordingly this practice sounds like insurance fraud - perpetrated by the resort medical/piste staff - rather than 'caring for skiers better' when they are on CN.
And finally, pam w I'm so sorry to hear you're now off games. How gutting for you - thought you'd done rather a lot of daytime posting recently. Hope you are running around again soon! |
oh well, another pr1ck from London, what a surprise.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Standee, it is fine to disagree with another's opinion on here , but to express insults about a person is not- Play the ball not the man.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Standee, as opposed to a queynte from Hull?
*awaits chastising from Hells*
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OliviaDB, You're a Chaucer scholar from London, and you expect this chap from Kingston to like you? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You and the Kingston boy should get on well then... but I'm not holding my breath!
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| OliviaDB wrote: |
| Is it genuinely 'no quibble'? Travel insurance includes medical screening. Does carte neige require you to declare medical stuff? |
In my experience and from what I've seen Yes.... if you have an accident on the Mountain and need help then you are rescued and taken off the mountain for initial treatment.. (I think the exact wording is 1st point of care)
If you need treatment after that then you pay.
For example; you dislocate your shoulder........ you have the insurance that you buy with your lift pass...... because of the pain the pisteurs decide to helivac you off the mountain...... because you live/work in the village you would ratehr not be helivaced to a hosptital over an hour away by road so get them to agree to drop you half way down the mountain at a road and an ambulance take you the rest of the way to the Cabine.
At the Cabine your friendly GP tries to relocate yoru shoulder..
All of this is covered under the insurance you buy with your lift pass.... no money changes hands, no credit card details are given nor are any other "top up" insurance details given.
When you buy it you don't have to declare any previous conditions etc etc you are basically buying rescue insurance not healthcover!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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marcellus, that's exactly as I understand it. CN will get you off the mountain in the fastest and most comfortable manor suitable to your condition. If you don't have CN and others do then they will get priority on available resources.. No problem with that. After you're off the mountain then it's over to your own cover.
I also had the same warning from, I suspect, the same TO. They were open and honest about their change of tac, previously advising not to get CN until the incident with the lady breaking two legs. They are a reputable company with a fantastic reputation in Vald. I have no reason to doubt the versasity of the tale, and the TO had nothing to gain from advising CN.
I'm amazed at how vitriolic and opinionated this thread as become. The rules are quite clear, but as in any walk of life different people will apply the rules in different ways, some of them no doubt self-serving. Such is life.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| They are a reputable company with a fantastic reputation in Vald. I have no reason to doubt the versasity of the tale, and the TO had nothing to gain from advising CN. |
No reason to doubt they are an experienced and reputable company who are passing on the info exactly as they received it. What I wonder about is the veracity of the skier's report of what happened, and not because the skier is a liar, but because I wonder about whether she did get precisely get the accurate end of the stick in that situation - I would find it quite strange that the rescue people would call out a helicopter *just* because she happened to mention that she had Carre Neige, when they rarely call out helicopters for French people with Carre/Carte Neige round here. Maybe it's a whole different ball game in Val d'Isere - the story doesn't put British insurers in a good light, and it certainly doesn't put Val d'Isere in a good light either.
I agree on the weird sudden vitriol on this thread though... what's all that about?!
When I got to the doctor with my Carte Neige cover, I still had to pay €50 for an exam and X-ray (which I have been reimbursed for). He is also my lovely GP as well as the head of the A&E clinic here, so I don't think he was being unnecessarily mean in making me pay - he's sent one of our guests away without them having to pay because it was a very quick and minor issue.
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miranda, she wasn't alone, there was a group of them. I'm not sure the TO would use it as an example if they weren't sure it was true.
Point taken though, there are at least 2 side to every story.
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You know it makes sense.
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In the Tarentaise there are two rescue helicopters provided by private company SAF and leased by the SAMU who also run ambulances. These helicopters often carry members of the PGHM or CRS (specialized mountain police units). Outside of the Tarentaise the rescue helicopters are run by the Civil Security (Red/Yellow) or PGHM/CRS (blue). Bases in the Savoie are at Annecy and Modane.
The law says that one of the designated rescue helicopters must be called in the case of an avalanche rescue but can only be called for other on or off piste injuries if the injuries are serious or life threatening. A rescue helicopter will be used for rescues outside the ski area or for spots that are hard to access within the ski domain. This of course depends on the weather and if the helicopter is busy with other rescues.
Some ski resorts lease their own helicopters, this is the case for Val d'Isere where the helicopter is used by the piste patrol for avalanche control and... rescues. I've no idea how these operate. Marc Bauer the mayor might be able to confirm mairie@valdisere.fr , might be interesting to get his take on what the Tour Operator is saying as he is responsible for rescues in his resort.
Carre Neige is run by the Comité de Ski de Savoie,a non-profit and covered by Europassistance. It is just an insurance like any other although obviously offered by many lift companies. I can't imagine they'll be too happy if helicopter rescue is being abused by the piste services, as someone has already said above.
BTW the piste services don't pay for the official rescue helicopters but will probably still bill you at the standard resort rate.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 21-01-13 21:45; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This thread was interesting and useful, but unfortunately one poster (standee) lost the plot and started insulting first Layne, then me, then James the Last and ranting about wanting to shoot people. Everybody else has been trying to contribute sensibly from their own experience and knowledge, and obviously things are done differently, to some extent, in different resorts. One poster above mentioned that his insurance company had still not paid the rescue bill, months later, which is probably not uncommon. If this late payment give British insurers a bad reputation in French resorts, then that's not good news for any of us.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Standee wrote: |
| CaravanSkier wrote: |
| had been clearer we may have been able to save a little money and perhaps had an extra meal out! |
did you ever ask the insurer(s) to clarify things?
not having a pop, a genuine question, a lot of the time in my profession I get "if I'd known" to which I respond "did you ask"?
We're becoming worse (and I include myself in this) we don't ask questions, we don't seek clarification and then when something goes wrong we bemoan "not having been told in advance", personal responsibility seems to be slipping away by the decade. |
Yes we do ask questions. ADAC confirmed to my husband tat they will pay for medi evac for all member's of the party from ski resorts. Only afterwards I asked him if he was sure that meant from the mountainside ........
I already knew our holiday insurance covered it but our holiday insurance does not cover car breakdown so no choice on that one.
However, its only now, older and wiser, and much more cynical, I have the time and knowledge to check such things. It took me a very long time to sort out insurances for our ski holiday over Xmas, read through what different policies actually covered etc, and I don`t easily trust an answer given over a 'phone!
But you are correct, we don`t generally ask enough questions ... then again should we have to?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I don`t easily trust an answer given over a 'phone!
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very wise. I once accepted an assurance on the phone that a car insurance policy covered unlimited trips to France (I asked because the policy booklet was so unclear). I then wrote, recounting that conversation, and asked for written confirmation that that was the case. No reply.
Later, when checking again when renewing the policy, having made no claims, I was told quite categorically that it didn,t, and that the 90 days was a limit for the whole year, not for any one trip.
I was left wondering whether I should get really paranoid and fix up some way of recording such telephone conversations permanently.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
I can't imagine they'll be too happy if helicopter rescue is being abused by the piste services, as someone has already said above.
BTW the piste services don't pay for the official rescue helicopters but will probably still bill you at the standard resort rate. |
Thanks, davidof. Just to summarise what you have written:
1. The piste service don't pay for helicopter usage.
2. The piste service will bill you (or your insurer for use of the helicopter).
3. If you are covered by CN then they know their invoice for helicopter use will be paid.
4. If you have an accident it is the piste service that decides whether or not to use a helicopter.
5. Whether or not they summon a helicopter depends on whether or not they are certain it will be paid for; and they know a CN victim will be paid for. (Is the corollary from earlier posts)
6. The piste service don't pay for the use of a helicopter.
Does France have a Daily Mail???
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 21-01-13 23:16; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Whether or not they summon a helicopter depends on whether or not they are certain it will be paid for
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did davidof say that? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Pam, I have just amended my post, and was coming back to admit to the change. But I see that davidof hasn't complained - so perhaps I should change it back...
Once upon a time I knew somebody who worked for a firm of solicitors who were the retained solicitors of a club. Members of the club (of whom there were tens if not hundreds of thousands) had the right - through some sort of insurance policy - to phone the solicitors for 30 minutes of free advice. He encouraged me and others to call the free helpline whenever we had even the vaguest cause to, as it paid his salary. Needless to say, the service no longer exists...
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FAQ
but thought I'd let it stand. The Piste Services don't pay for the PGHM/Civil Security helicopter but obviously ski resorts pay tax which then pays for these services. However if the resort has a helicopter (such as Val d'Isere or la Plagne) that must cost to fly.
