 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Got one from Blue Tomato for my 8 year old, small enough that she can wear it comfortably unlike my Ortovox D3. She has had some practice with it the garden and is pretty quick at finding the D3 with it, though that said for an 8yo it is more about finding her than her doing the rescuing!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davkt, cheers , that was my thinking exactly ! At £82.50 it a good option for my practise and not to dramatic if I lost it 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yep, she has already announced she will wear it every day just in case she fancies a trip into the trees at the edge of the piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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good value
BUT....
the single antenna could make it trickier to find a beacon that is actually buried below surface
There is a huge difference between searching for a beacon on the surface and one that is buried even 50cm. This is not a bad beacon - but single antenna is basically 25 year old technology (i.e old Ortovox F1) and requires awareness and skill to be used properly in a real scenario. Ironically a user most likely to buy a Pieps Freeride is perhaps the least aware of its limitations ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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One of the guys I was skiing with last week had one of these; it was noticably harder and slower than a 3-antenna model even for finding a practise beacon just buried a foot deep. Our instructor had no such problem using it... but he practises very frequently and had been doing such things for many years.
| Dabber wrote: |
| easy to use beeper |
It is harder to use than a 3-antenna model. If you want cheap and simple, why not take a look at this: http://www.ekosport.fr/bca-tracker2-12,37868606,p.html
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Haggis_Trap, Hence my comment about being mainly about finding her! Far better one that she can comfortably and securely wear than a bigger but more capable one with all the bells and whistles while she isn't big and strong enough to be useful in a rescue.
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| davkt wrote: |
| bells and whistles |
Like a useable search mode? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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cheers for the advice , planning on loads of practise sessions , so will dig some half metre holes as well as surface seaches , and let you know the results 
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Better a (limited) transceiver that's worn (and pracised with) than a 3 antenna one at home.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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^ no longer totally true.
modern triple antenna digital beacons really are so simple and easy to use.
something like a BCA2 literally is 'point and shoot', and not that expensive.
seriously - your mum could probably figure out how it works in 2 minutes.
of course you still need to practice (and learn some theory) - but modern beacons really have moved on from 10 years ago.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
| davkt wrote: |
| bells and whistles |
Like a useable search mode? |
Search mode works if you take the time to understand and practice with it! Doesn't have 3 antenna but will tell you if it spots more than one signal before locking on the strongest and doesn't have as many flashing leds as the D3 but is less than half the size and weight, while that doesn't matter to an adult it does to to a skinny 8 year old if you expect it to be used!
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You know it makes sense.
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Sure.
But lets be honest here... you have obtained a device that has effectively been crippled in order to render it smaller, lighter and cheaper than other transceivers. That's not a completely unreasonable tradeoff, given your requirements. However, it is disingenuous to describe the device as somehow easier to use than its 3-antenna alternatives when it clearly isn't, or to refer to technologies that make transceiver searches faster and easier as mere 'bells and whistles'.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FWIW - The pieps freeride was originally marketed to be ultra light weight for rando racers on endurance cross country skiing events (such as the patroille du glaciers).
Of course its also happens to be much cheaper than any other beacon on the market. Its not a horrible beacon - but beware what you are buying
| Quote: |
| Conclusion: The Freeride might be a reasonable choice for people who want a tiny transceiver and who already know how to search without a directional indicator (and who are willing to do very narrow search strips), but I do not think it is appropriate for people who are purchasing their first transceiver or who have been using a multiple antenna transceiver. These folks won't understand the additional practice required to search using a single-antenna transceiver. Please don't skimp on price and give this as a gift to a novice. |
http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Specs_PiepsFreeride.asp
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Poster: A snowHead
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Serriadh, Come on! It wasn't that long ago that this would have been 'state of the art'. Equipment is continually developing and this is a perfectly adequate tool that does what it says on the tin and within the regulations it's required to perform to at a very reasonable price. We debase the safety debate when we start arguing about what is no more than the bling factor in rescue equipment. Pathetic 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Masque wrote: |
| Serriadh, Come on! It wasn't that long ago that this would have been 'state of the art' |
No-one recommends analogue transceivers any more, and for a good reason. They were once state of the art too.
| Masque wrote: |
| We debase the safety debate when we start arguing about what is no more than the bling factor in rescue equipment. Pathetic |
Oh for crying out loud. Bling factor? One of the two major purposes of a transceiver is to find other transceivers. Anything which makes that basic task substantially easier is not a frill, not a bell or whistle, or bling... it is a core piece of life-saving functionality. Is this really so hard to understand?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 17-01-13 15:37; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque, ROFL, making something significantly easier to use is 'bling' now?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Serriadh, meh, No . . . but we all know that there's a significant number of purchasers of equipment (any equipment) who choose it for its 'form' and 'perceived value' than it's performance.
Making something easier to use does not diminish the value of the other . . . only your opinion of its user . . . which is rather inverse logic. The product performs within all regulations and requirement at a price point that makes it accessible to more of the cretins who wander into the wilderness with nothing to support them.
Rather than being elitist about having or wanting the 'blingiest' transceiver (and I use that term deliberately) you should be promoting the training and use of anything to make our sport safer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Masque, the problem then is that you're arguing with yourself or more accurately an opposition argument that only exists in your own head.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Masque wrote: |
| Rather than being elitist about having or wanting the 'blingiest' transceiver (and I use that term deliberately) you should be promoting the training and use of anything to make our sport safer. |
Elitist? Seriously? A single antenna transceiver is clearly, objectively and demonstrably worse than a modern 3-antenna device when it comes to locating other transceivers. It is not easier, and it is not quicker. Three antenna transceivers make it substantially simpler and faster to locate a transmitter especially in the hands of an inexperienced user. Are you seriously trying to contest this?
As is the nature of the internet, people will come across these misunderstandings, and this is doubly bad as they involve safety equipment. Devices like the pieps freeride are a deliberate compromise... and they should never be regarded as anything else especially when genuinely easy to use and fully featured devices are available for such a small additional sum of money. You do everyone a disservice by wading in here and declaring this to be "elitist"; it is important that anyone looking at these bits of limited equipment is very much aware of their shortcomings.
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Serriadh, Then use your undoubted erudition to have ONLY the bleeding edge equipment available for sale and the forcible education in its use. Your argument is specious untill you use it to change the system rather than berate the purchaser or user . . . otherwise you define 'elitist'.
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I'm sorry, I seem to have mistaken you for someone who isn't an irrational troll.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Masque, but no one has berated anyone else apart from you going around calling other posters pathetic for pointing out why the cheap transceiver has shortcomings.
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Surely, in the panic which might exist when you could have lost close friends and loved ones in an avalanche, if you are likely to be left as the 'finder' the best transceiver to have is the one with the best trade off in accuracy, vs. ease of use. Those with complicated devices, or which require more effort to use, might argue that with enough practice they can use their devices as well and as quickly as a simpler unit. However, until put in that situation for real they will never know if they can overcome the adrenelin rush sufficient to get their mind around a more complex device.
I only raise this is a possible issue directly based on my own experience in a different area:
I have practised, in various forms, since I was child at Junior St John Ambulance the process for dealing with an unconscious, unresponsive casualty. What to do and the order to do it in (and it isn't difficult to remember in a cosy village hall), I would have said I could do it with my eyes shut I was that good at it.
The dark night I discovered someone lying in the middle of the road and got out of my car to help did I at first sit there and think "Now, what the hell do I do?" ??? The answer is Yes, of course I bloody well did. It took completely conscious recall though - you do what you've been told to do, what have I been told to do? Oh, yes, assess the situation, make the area safe, etc. etc. Only a concerted effort made me start functioning again and that was for a complete stranger.
Now imagine a situation where you've just narrowly missed being swept away yourself, and you've lost a close friend since childhood and 2 kids into the rubble of an avalanche - are you likely to be functioning on all brain cells? Surely the KISS principle has to be high on anyone's priorties when picking one of these things? And if that means taking advantage of all that modern tech. allows surely its not 'Bling' but 'KISS'!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Serriadh, meh, both of you have implied that it's sub standard (crippled) and not worth buying and that, by your own words is elitist. You'd do far better to have it removed from sale that kvetch about it in a forum
And I'll add, I'm a rational Troll and proud of that in the face of irrational argument especially when it comes to the difference to information loading for an inexperienced user, ease of use and training to do so.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
Sure.
But lets be honest here... you have obtained a device that has effectively been crippled in order to render it smaller, lighter and cheaper than other transceivers. That's not a completely unreasonable tradeoff, given your requirements. However, it is disingenuous to describe the device as somehow easier to use than its 3-antenna alternatives when it clearly isn't, or to refer to technologies that make transceiver searches faster and easier as mere 'bells and whistles'. |
Didn't say it was easier to use! And it is certainly capable of doing the job. We wouldn't have the 3 antenna digital ones now if first the analog ones then the ones like the Pieps (digital single antenna certainly isn't 25 YO tech) hadn't proved their worth so we bought them and thus made it worth manufactures developing the next generation of to extract our hard earned cash!
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Anyway! It might be a bit late to get this thread back on track... but here's a stab at being constructive anyway.
Has anyone seen an Ortovox Zoom? Seems like you can get them for £160 right now, so they're not quite bargain basement, but given that their size is only a little larger than the freeride (116x79x23mm for the zoom vs 110x58x24mm for the freeride) and they're a wee bit lighter (200g vs 265g) they might be a reasonable alternative for small people but are still fully featured and useable transceivers. Not actually seen one in the flesh, though.
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, it's very dull when you go out of the way to make a thread about you again and again.
Sorry I fell for it everyone else. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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And as someone who owns 2 freerides, a Tracker, a DSP, An S1 and S1+, several old analogue Pieps, an old F1 and a Pulse, and who teached folks how to use them I can say that I think the Freeride isnt that bad a unit
Its easy to use and learn, small and light. and priced so that folks may actually carry it always rather than just on high risk days
Its cons are less range than others, doesnt deal with spikes (easy to deal with with knowledge/practice) and its not handy for multiples as you cant null a signal
If you can afford it the the zoom is great but dont berate someone that is not flush with cash for having a freeride. To be honest I'd rather someone had a freeride looking for me than a DSP or an F1 as these really do need more practice
Of course in a perfect world everyone would have an S1(+) or Pulse/Element and then searches would be a piece of cake and hardly ever need to practice as they are very good and intuitive
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Poster: A snowHead
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| madmole wrote: |
| If you can afford it the the zoom is great but dont berate someone that is not flush with cash for having a freeride. To be honest I'd rather someone had a freeride looking for me than a DSP or an F1 as these really do need more practice |
Quick summary of this thread for you. The freeride is not as easy to use as three antenna alternatives, and those extra antennae are not frivolous additions. It is indeed cheap and small, and those can be good enough reasons to get it so long as its deficiencies are understood, and those deficiencies are not confused with ease of use or suitability for novices.
No-one was berated for being poor. Nowhere was it said that older and less user-friendly devices were better. No-one suggested that having no transceiver was better than having a user-unfriendly transceiver.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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With the freeride a good set of probes become more important as its quicker to probe the last bit than to sort the spike in practice
The S1 or Barryvox will stick you right over the target everytime
The S1(+) wins for incidence management. The superb display makes it very clear where victims are in relation to the unit. You can be searching for one while telling other serchers that victim 2 is 30 m over there and victim 3 is 20m behind you. The fine search circle display is also very good for the last part of the search
The Element probably is the best searching unit. Very clear/load audibly and simple easy to follow display
Ones I wouldnt suggest are the Patroller, F1, old tracker etc as all dated in display and processing now compared to the newer units. and avoid the DSP. It has all sorts of quirks, is very prone to interferance and never seems to put you directly over the target if its more than .5m down
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dabber wrote: |
| davkt, cheers , that was my thinking exactly ! At £82.50 it a good option for my practise and not to dramatic if I lost it |
I just wanted to point out the main purpose of this purchase , is to allow me some practise time at home when no one around to buddy up with , and therefore will be mainly used as the victim and not the searcher , and after reading the comments about how much harder these are to use , I am still keen to buy one as the extra practise and the more understanding and time spent in search mode/mentality is time well spent .
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Serriadh, clearly I am no expert and no way could I comment on its performance, but yes, I have seen a zoom, if you were to ask me I would say it is built around the KISS principle and thereby would fit my criteria above.
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FAQ
