 Poster: A snowHead
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Just had my firs ever ski experience while doing a Lapland Christmas.
Did 1.5hrs ski school every morning with my wife while the two kids had 2:1 tuition, as did we, so we're now all past the stage of looking like scared rabbits once the heel locks into place and my sphincter no longer dilates at any sort of gradient.
I'll get the wife and I to buy some correctly fitted boots as we all want to keep up at least one ski trip a year, so where are the good budget resorts, preferably in Austria and Italy?
Our preference is to fly from Bristol (we live in Bath), Passo Tonale is on our list, but I'd like a few more.
Flying from Bristol while a priority is not the be all and end all.
I suppose really we're looking for nice long 2km+ sweeping blues and greens.
All advice gratefully received.
Also, at what point is it worth considering buying skis?....if at all??
TIA
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not sure on the budget front for getting there, it was reasonable us, as were the restaurants, mountain huts etc...... Cervinia fits the bill. Lovely long wide blues. Not sure if you can get Bristol-Turin/Milan flights, but you would be able to from Gatwick or Birmingham.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| hammerite wrote: |
| Not sure on the budget front for getting there, it was reasonable us, as were the restaurants, mountain huts etc...... Cervinia fits the bill. Lovely long wide blues. Not sure if you can get Bristol-Turin/Milan flights, but you would be able to from Gatwick or Birmingham. |
Thank you Hammerite, I'll add that to my list 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
at what point is it worth considering buying skis?....if at all??
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probably not till you are doing more than one trip - your ski requirements will change much more than your boot requirements (which except for the gnarly technical people really only need to fit well).
Don't forget to factor in quality and cost of ski school when thinking of resorts. Keeping up lessons will ensure you progress - a lot of people give up much too quick. You might find private lessons better than groups (though you might not be at that stage yet) and the price of private lessons varies a lot.
The answer to your question depends on whether you want to use package tour operators, or do DIY trips. The TOs go to a rather small range of resorts in Austria, France and Italy, many of which will be more expensive and extensive than you really need.
I'm sure you will get some good suggestions in Italy and Austria. Any particular reason why you have ruled out France? There are heaps of cheap flights Bristol/Geneva.
I considered Passo Tonale for holidays in the past, but always rejected it on reading reviews which suggested it was bleak, with a straggly village devoid of much charm. Whereas the Dolomite resorts are in a wholly different league with the most beautiful mountain scenery in the world!
If you are thinking of a DIY style holiday you could do worse than look at the Peak Retreats website - they have some v nice accommodation in a range of less well known resorts and might give you some ideas.
Don't equate small, little known, resorts with easy skiing. Some will have some quite challenging terrain and might also lack the smooth, fast, lift infrastructure of bigger resorts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
Don't forget to factor in quality and cost of ski school when thinking of resorts. Keeping up lessons will ensure you progress - a lot of people give up much too quick. You might find private lessons better than groups (though you might not be at that stage yet) and the price of private lessons varies a lot. |
Indeed I intend to keep up ski school until I know I've gone far enough, and I know I'm not there yet
| pam w wrote: |
| The answer to your question depends on whether you want to use package tour operators, or do DIY trips. The TOs go to a rather small range of resorts in Austria, France and Italy, many of which will be more expensive and extensive than you really need. |
Noted, when you say DIY, I presume you mean, contact the hotels/resort myself and then organise flights?
It's just with kids I'm not entirely sure I have the appropriate knowledge just yet to do that.
As with summer holidays I like to use TOs to "induct" me to an area and then if we find somewhere we fancy returning to then at that stage turn to DIY...if that makes sense?
| pam w wrote: |
| I'm sure you will get some good suggestions in Italy and Austria. Any particular reason why you have ruled out France? |
Xenophobia, I'm entirely Francophobic
| pam w wrote: |
| I considered Passo Tonale for holidays in the past, but always rejected it on reading reviews which suggested it was bleak, with a straggly village devoid of much charm. Whereas the Dolomite resorts are in a wholly different league with the most beautiful mountain scenery in the world! |
Passo Tonale always comes up in searches and conversations about nice easy slopes and family friendly, and bleakness is not something I have a problem with, if I could afford it, I'd ski in Lapland all the time, which is just snow and birch trees. As a former wilderness walker and climber I love bleak:)
| pam w wrote: |
If you are thinking of a DIY style holiday you could do worse than look at the Peak Retreats website - they have some v nice accommodation in a range of less well known resorts and might give you some ideas.
Don't equate small, little known, resorts with easy skiing. Some will have some quite challenging terrain and might also lack the smooth, fast, lift infrastructure of bigger resorts. |
Noted, and thank you for your considered and detailed reply, lots to think about
S.
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| hammerite wrote: |
| Not sure on the budget front for getting there, it was reasonable us, as were the restaurants, mountain huts etc...... Cervinia fits the bill. Lovely long wide blues. Not sure if you can get Bristol-Turin/Milan flights, but you would be able to from Gatwick or Birmingham. |
Just done a decent bit of reading round Cervinia, and I gotta say it sounds ideal........now surpassing Passo T, cheers man
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| pam w wrote: |
| Ratae Corietuvorum, with kids, the key to budget skiing is when you go, not where. If you have to do TO holidays at half term, forget budget, and the chances of a good last minute bargain are slender. But christmas is a better bet (though snow quality is a gamble that early in the season) and there are often quite good last minute bargains. Easter is early this year (2013). How about a last minute trip then? |
Thankfully our kids are in a private school and they usually get two weeks, one of which isn't the same as the majority, although I'm not sure if Winter Ht is the same, it is for the Autumn HT.
Easter sounds like the prime target.
Is HT a British thing, as I never knew it while I was brought up in Ireland?
Do the rest of Europe have HT or even the same school year?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As pam w says, Christmas is a good option, for us next year a package deal would be £100-150 per person less than going a week later for New Year, possibly the same, if not more expensive to go at half term. We tend to go Christmas and Easter as a result.
You won't need your own skis, possibly ever. If you factor in the cost of the skis, ski carriage, obsolescence and then servicing (unless you do this yourself), hiring really is an attractive option. If you end up skiing 4+ weeks a season then this may be a bit different.
Having my own boots was a revelation, I went after my first week for a boot fitting ready for my next holiday and was turned away by the boot fitter (Colin from Solutions 4 Feet in Bicester).... Apparently I have narrow feet, there aren't many options for narrow fitting boots at beginner level. He told me to go back to him when I had a few more weeks experience, where as an intermediate skier there are more options for fit. Just something to be aware of, go to a reputable boot fitter, had Colin wanted to he could've palmed any boot off on me, which may not have fit properly or been comfortable and I'd have been none the wiser. I had to put up with rental boots for a few more weeks, but it was worth it in the long run.
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| Quote: |
Do the rest of Europe have HT or even the same school year?
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good question! they all have holidays which play havoc with planning ski holidays. Plenty of info on the internet and discussion threads here on SHs. Austria has Fasching and also gets invaded by Germans and Dutch tourists. In Italy the major problem in some resorts is invasions from Turin, Milan, etc at weekends. French winter holidays are mid Feb/mid March, varying slightly from year to year but spread over 4 weeks.
Now (January after New Year) is a very good time from the budget (and usually snow) point of view but means taking kids out of school. Which is what I always did, back in the day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="pam w"]
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Now (January after New Year) is a very good time from the budget (and usually snow) point of view but means taking kids out of school. Which is what I always did, back in the day. |
Not an option at this school;)
Besides which we both work in the University sector so we have to teach and support students:(
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Maybe Easter 2013 is an ideal moment to look for a last minute package for the family - with an open mind about resort. If you come up with a resort you really fancy, waiting for a last minute deal might be risky.
One place I've never visited, but sounds like it might suit you well, is Zell am See in Austria. Beautiful lakeside resort, lots to do other than ski, local slopes limited in extent but that shouldn't bother you. Plenty of info on Zell am See here on Snowheads. Maybe not ideal for Easter, though. There are some resorts (including Zell) which have glacier skiing within reach, but when local resorts are struggling for snow they do tend to get very busy and sometimes not much fun for relative beginners.
I have no idea how the slopes in Lapland would compare with Alpine slopes - something worth finding out, perhaps.
If you live near one of the indoor ski slopes in the UK most will have excellent tuition available if your next proper snow fix is some time in the future.
Schools are becoming much more difficult about time off now unfortunately - my kids were in state schools, some years ago, and I decided I was the best judge of what was good for their education. History suggests I was right. 
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| pam w wrote: |
| Schools are becoming much more difficult about time off now unfortunately - my kids were in state schools, some years ago, and I decided I was the best judge of what was good for their education. History suggests I was right. |
In all fairness, the Head at their school has been very flexible when we've taken them to India, but we just pull the good works and my wife has links with Save the Children, and they've always been open to persuasion.
Also we're not vaguely known as being one of the "ski crowd" so maybe we could take advantage of that:)
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
I have no idea how the slopes in Lapland would compare with Alpine slopes - something worth finding out, perhaps. |
The air is dry and very very "crisp" temps vary from -9degC in Dec to as low as -35 (inc wind chill) and the snow is like diamonds when it falls, lovely dry powder and for clothing the accent is obviously warm, and not water resistant, in winter no need for UV ski goggles as it barely gets light, but balaclava and clear/uncoloured goggles is good in -25degC and below to stop your ocular fluid freezing and your face going numb.
Our ski teacher jumps in the car in July, drives 6 hours over to Norway and can ski all year round apart from the very warmest years, and obvioulsy you can sample some very magical Nordic cross country skiing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
we're not vaguely known as being one of the "ski crowd" so maybe we could take advantage of that:)
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not for long, by the sound of it!
Sounds very different from the Alps. I've always thought a Lapland visit would be good. Northern Lights? Weather here is so unpredictable. There were some positively warm and sunny days over the last few weeks - fine for taking tiny kids up ski lifts and not a problem for babies which wouldn't keep their gloves on. But now it's snowing again, temperatures are low (well, low for us - minus 10 at low altitude) visibility is virtually nil. The view in my picture hasn't been seen for several days now! And just a few days ago it rained heavily in many Austrian villages. Sometimes fresh snow is lovely light powder, sometimes it's clag. the sort you can make snowballs and snowmen from.
The variety keeps life interesting, but can make planning difficult.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
Sounds very different from the Alps. I've always thought a Lapland visit would be good. Northern Lights? |
Northern lights...........put it this way, when the skiing weather is good is not the best time to see the Aurora B., but not out of the question, most clear nights, the faint greenness that precedes a full show is evident....well in my eyes it is, but then I've seen a half decent show in the north of the Cairngorms
Skiing in general in Scandinavia is great, Finland is off most people's radars but Levi has one of the best WC Downhill courses, and obviously Norway has legendary places like Lillehammer, but lots further north into "Lapland".
The consensus is, it's always quiet enough to get plenty of ski time in, and obviously fewer better places to indulge in some extreme gratuitous snowmobiling, and they're great with kids
http://www.ski-norway.co.uk/why-norway.aspx
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would personally look at Esprit*, who were absolutely brilliant with our kids when we started taking them (between the ages of 4 and 10).
The child care is excellent, the chalets/hotels are usually OK, and if you book late the price isn't bad.
For instance, our half term this year is Feb 10 and you can get 2 adults and 2 kids in Obergurgl or Saas Fee for £2999; if you went the week before you could go to La Ros (if you can swallow your Franciophobia, which I urge you to do from a skiing point of view!) for £1799.
Given that that includes flights, transfers and bb&em (plus high tea) I can't see how you can go wrong.
*I have no connection to them, but always big them up as we were always so pleased with them. There are other operators.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| northernsoulboy wrote: |
I would personally look at Esprit*, who were absolutely brilliant with our kids when we started taking them (between the ages of 4 and 10).
The child care is excellent, the chalets/hotels are usually OK, and if you book late the price isn't bad.
For instance, our half term this year is Feb 10 and you can get 2 adults and 2 kids in Obergurgl or Saas Fee for £2999; if you went the week before you could go to La Ros (if you can swallow your Franciophobia, which I urge you to do from a skiing point of view!) for £1799.
Given that that includes flights, transfers and bb&em (plus high tea) I can't see how you can go wrong.
*I have no connection to them, but always big them up as we were always so pleased with them. There are other operators. |
Cheers man, the missus is a sucker for high tea, wherever we go:)
Yea, I'm sure with a tad more open mindedness I can swallow some Frenchosity;)...just hope I can keep it down
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I can second the Esprit recommendation we went with them 2 yrs ago and are going with them again in April. Though I have booked to go with Mark Warner for next season as I was able to get an affordable school holiday week with them for Easter week (Esprit came in much higher for school holiday weeks)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would recommend levi . Going on sunday for the 3rd time and love it , i have only being another ski resort and that was andorra im only 16 btw and levi is great . The slopes are not the size of the alps but you get the prestine weather and snow , less crowds and a more authentic place . The runs are perfect for begineers and intermediets and okay for experts. The terrain is more narrow than the alps but alot shorter so experts can catch pretty good speed if they go in a straight line . Everything is close to the slope an the atmosphere is chilled
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I can third the esprit recommendation. See my post on recent New Year trip to Les Gets. We are looking at La Ros and about 1 day off booking it. La ros is right on Italy border so you can ski in La Thuille if you need to escape the French for a few hours.
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Ratae Corietuvorum, In Austria I would suggest Alpbach or Westendorf as very suitable for beginners, they are also very pretty villages.
Incidentally, you have an interesting username, but since you state you live in Bath (rather than Leicester) I would have thought that Aquae Sulis would have been more appropriate.... 
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I didn't get the impression that the OP's kids were little enough to need "child-care". Esprit wouldn't be a very good choice unless this aspect of the package was crucial?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ratae Corietuvorum wrote: |
| Levi has one of the best WC Downhill courses |
WC Downhill course sounds like it's ... well a downhill course instead of a slalom course it actually is.
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Ratae Corietuvorum,
A few thoughts.
DIY is not particularly difficult and can sometimes save significant sums of money. (Usually in school holidays).
In terms of organisation for skiing it is probably more important to arrive at ther resort at a reasonable time rather than with/without tour operator. In my experience the reps are often harrassed on the first day and you have to do a lot of the stuff yourself anyway.
If you are planning Easter rather than half term you need to be a wee bit more careful about the resort you chose lower and south facing slopes can lack snow or be very slushy.
Some on  advocate very high resorts persoanlly I dont think this is necessary having been skiing every Easter forthe last 13 years but I would not choose a resort without access to some reasonably high and preferably north facing skiing myself.
Bleak in relation to description of alpine resorts can mean different things sometimes the rather souless modern architecture sometimes the scenery and sometimes the fact that sking takes place entirely above the tree line. The latter can cause difficulty in bad weather partly because of lack of protection from the elements but also because of lack of definition of the snow from the sun or shadows cast from trees this can be very disorientating particularly for inexperienced skiers.
Anyway good luck with what ever you choose.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
Ratae Corietuvorum, In Austria I would suggest Alpbach or Westendorf as very suitable for beginners, they are also very pretty villages.
Incidentally, you have an interesting username, but since you state you live in Bath (rather than Leicester) I would have thought that Aquae Sulis would have been more appropriate.... |
Alastair, my (incorrectly spelt, please correct it mods:() is a reflection of my place of birth and not my chosen place to live, although I have used Fosse in my usernames before now in reflection that I was born at one end and live at the other;)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Benefc123 wrote: |
| I would recommend levi . Going on sunday for the 3rd time and love it , i have only being another ski resort and that was andorra im only 16 btw and levi is great . The slopes are not the size of the alps but you get the prestine weather and snow , less crowds and a more authentic place . The runs are perfect for begineers and intermediets and okay for experts. The terrain is more narrow than the alps but alot shorter so experts can catch pretty good speed if they go in a straight line . Everything is close to the slope an the atmosphere is chilled |
I've just returned from Levi, if it were me, I'd choose it all the time, as I love the Finns and there is plenty to do besides skiing, like hammering across frozen lake son snow mobiles, however I am not yet sure how financially viable it is DIY, although I will check. We went with Inghams and their reps were utterly uninspiring, verging on completely ineffectual.
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| Skise wrote: |
| Ratae Corietuvorum wrote: |
| Levi has one of the best WC Downhill courses |
WC Downhill course sounds like it's ... well a downhill course instead of a slalom course it actually is. |
My apologies, complete mea culpa, it is indeed a WC Slalom site 
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I didn't get the impression that the OP's kids were little enough to need "child-care". Esprit wouldn't be a very good choice unless this aspect of the package was crucial? |
Pam is absolutely right, no child care required
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Ratae Corietuvorum wrote: |
| We went with Inghams and their reps were utterly uninspiring, verging on completely ineffectual. |
and in contrast the Inghams reps we had in Arabba at Christmas were excellent. We went on a couple of hours of ski guiding, the rep would stop every so often pointing out interesting things/facts/different slopes etc... We went on the Hidden Valley trip with them, on the bus there we heard about a load of the villages we pass through, how the Dolomites were formed, Tyrollean farming methods, how fondue came into existence and what it's made out of, WW1 in the area (esp in the Hidden Valley) and the Alpine Chough.
Ultimately it's the luck of the draw as to whether you end up with decent reps or not.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On the package trips I did in the past, I don't really remember needing anything from reps. One time my daughter in law was cas-evacced off the slopes in Les Gets I sorted out various insurance things, paid the pharmacy for leg brace etc etc. A very nice rep came to the chalet before dinner, having heard somebody had been hurt and wanting to see if she could help. She was surprised to find it was all sorted - but it really hadn't occurred to me just to sit there and wait for somebody else to do it.
There have been a number of recent threads about serious car problems on DIY trips, emphasizing the difficulties which can arise if you DIY. If you get dumped at the wrong airport (not at all unlikely if you are scheduled in Chambery), nobody is going to send a coach to get you to resort. And if you take too long to get your hired car back to the airport because of heavy snow, and miss your flight, it's tough (some insurance will pay for public transport delays but we were looking one last week, wondering whether they would pay up if you were driving yourself; didn't seem so).
For years now I've done nothing but DIY but especially with kids, travelling with a good tour operator definitely has some advantages. What the "reps" can do for you probably isn't one of them, for the most part.
Peak holiday week travel with TOs is expensive. And they charge over the odds for basic self-catering accommodation which you can buy on cheap French websites with passes included, much more cheaply. But last minute TO bookings for hotels and catered chalets can be very good value.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Some excellent advice as always.
You mention flying from Bristol is your preference. Does that mean you don't want to drive out?
Also maybe I missed it but do you have a preference for catered or self catered accomodation?
In terms of "I suppose really we're looking for nice long 2km+ sweeping blues and greens." Piste gradings vary from resort to resort to suit their circs and needs. Also they vary with the prevailing conditions. What you want to think more about has mentioned is good availability of ski school (if required), skiing convenience and avoiding any resorts that are particularly suited to expert skiers.
Another thought is that whilst you may like bleak do your wife and children? I've always found having some skiing below the tree line is handy for poor weather.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Layne wrote: |
Some excellent advice as always.
You mention flying from Bristol is your preference. Does that mean you don't want to drive out? |
Now way.....ever...never, these days I resent the 20min school run, I've ridden driven in excess of 1.5million miles (that I can account for) in my 48 years, a lot as a dispatch rider, van driver and commuter, and I simply don't have any inclination at all to drive further than the end of the road, not to mind down to the Alps or Pyrénée
| Layne wrote: |
| Also maybe I missed it but do you have a preference for catered or self catered accomodation? |
For a ski holiday very content to SC
| Layne wrote: |
In terms of "I suppose really we're looking for nice long 2km+ sweeping blues and greens." Piste gradings vary from resort to resort to suit their circs and needs. Also they vary with the prevailing conditions. What you want to think more about has mentioned is good availability of ski school (if required), skiing convenience and avoiding any resorts that are particularly suited to expert skiers.
Another thought is that whilst you may like bleak do your wife and children? I've always found having some skiing below the tree line is handy for poor weather. |
Yes, I got the flavour of the variance of piste gradings from quite a few threads/posts, and would always seek local knowledge, and yes, we'd need to be sure that ski school can cater mainly for my kids development, as in all honesty neither myself or my wife are going to want to get any further than the ski equivalence of "Sunday driving" 
When I read the descriptions of the Head Big Easy ski, I though, now that's the ski for me.
Although a former two wheeled rider these days I find canal boats and buses are about as fast as I wish to travel
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maggots werent the fastest bikes on the planet though to be fair! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ratae Corietuvorum, ansta1 will do that to you
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honda cx500 the dispatch riders tool of choice for years.
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FAQ
