I did post this elsewhere but it really is worth watching for those who don't realise how deadly even a slow moving slide can be once the snow piles up at the bottom. Many people get away with small slides or get ejected out the sides of larger ones. This chap stays on the surface for most of it but then ends up buried, it's a good job he was found so quickly.
Scarpa, he was buried for a few minutes but it felt like forever, just goes to show he'd be buggered if he was on his own
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stiv24, Yep. I deliberately didn't look at the time elapsed/remaining on the vid, so I had no idea how long I'd be 'experiencing the burial' with him for..... I found it really difficult to watch. (even without the squirrels Scarpa, )
What kept going through my mind was that other video - of how not to cope in an avalanche - and that poor guy was sitting there experiencing all that whilst his mates faffed with backpacks/gloves/'dont't rush, take your time' etc etc. really brought it home.
If you go off piste on your own then you're really playing Russian Roulette.
Off piste you should probably be in a group of at least 4 people, you should all have transceivers, probes & shovels and know how to use them. I would also recommend going on an avalanche awareness course too.
Scary Movie!!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
No shovels? probably no Transcievers either,. and judging by the "no Helicopter" comment, no insurance
madmole, That's a bit of a leap of assumption isn't it? What makes you think that?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
madmole, according to the description on YouTube, they were all properly equipped but the guy digging with a ski was some random chap who stopped to help.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I did see a shovel after one chap had used a ski to uncover the victim.
You don't call out the helicopter unless you really need it. Someone else may have a real need for it.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
welshflyer wrote:
If you go off piste on your own then you're really playing Russian Roulette.
Gotta disagree with this, the risk is different, possibly greater but the two most important things whether you're alone or mob-handed are 1) Should I go out or not 2) how I behave and travel when I'm out there.
If its cat 5 and there's 10 of you and you're all trained rescuers, and you've all the correct kit, and you go out into the level 5 zones, you're all tits. So statements like there should be at least 4 of you with all the gear (and somehow thats fine) is misleading and dangerous. Whether I'm in a group or solo, I rely completely on myself to make sensible decisions
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Scary stuff, watching it on my big computer screen made me feel like I was buried as well
Looks like there were quite a few people skiing that slope, saw at least two before him, but the line he took was crazy right across the wind loaded area which gave way as soon as he got on it, goes with what other threads have been saying over and over it knowing which part of the slope to ski to minimise the avalanche risk.
Reading the you tube details, it looks correct that the guy using the ski was a random guy also on the same slope, as the people who skied down before him could not have got back up that quick.
It does pose the question of the random guy tho, where was his shovel and probe??, no way you going to find someone 1.5 to 2m down without a transceiver unless by luck.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
welshflyer wrote:
stiv24,
If you go off piste on your own then you're really playing Russian Roulette.
Off piste you should probably be in a group of at least 4 people, you should all have transceivers, probes & shovels and know how to use them. I would also recommend going on an avalanche awareness course too.
Scary Movie!!
Good idea, it's definitely something I'm going to try and learn more about.
If you are caught in something like this what's the best thing to do? I've heard people say try to swim and stay on top but having watched a few of the clips on here where people have been buried I'd have thought that trying to get into some sort of foetal position would be better than being buried flat on your back
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
try this for starters (quiz and brief instruction to help you assess conditions to help you travel safely):
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
barry,
There are a lot more dangers out in the mountains besides the danger of avalanches. You could have a small accident or even a heart attack and without anyone else around to help you could be in a very dangerous situation. You reduce the risks if you're in a group.
I'm not saying that because there is a group of you equipped with avi gear you'll be OK. I'm saying you need to try to reduce the risks however possible.
Avalanche category 1 doesn't mean everywhere is safe from avalanche, never mind cat 2-5.
We all think that we are making sensible decisions but even the most experienced qualified mountain guides have been caught out.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
welshflyer, you potentially gave the impression that a well equipped group were safer than a well educated loner, and that equipment was the key. Thats what some less experienced punters would have taken from it. Knowledge is far more important than equipment and knowledge reduces the risk far more than any equipment will. Knowledge (and acting on it) first, equipment second.
For example, its perfectly possible to go out and be safe when its lets say cat 3, if you know your aspects and the details behind the forecast etc. but it is potentially very dangerous to go out blindly in the same conditions without any appreciation about how potential avy risk builds.
Its a bit of a faff to download, but i highly recommend the quiz/course from glenmore lodge linked above. Havent seen many better armchair instructions
dont be prepared, be safe
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
welshflyer wrote:
I'm saying you need to try to reduce the risks however possible.
i'd say you need to reduce the risks to something you are comfortable with
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
One issue seems to be that even if you ski as a pair you don't ski as a pair on exactly the same bit of moutain. As the start of that video shows, in say 10 seconds difference in starting time, you can be hundreds of yards apart in distance and height, and even if a colleague skiing first is aware that you have a cropper I cannot think that they are in a position esp. off piste to easily get back up to where the incident has occurred. These days many folks are filming friends and getting split up whilst this happens must be on the increase. It is not suprise to me that the chap in the video was rescued by those coming behind him rather than the feller that skied before him (asusming the comments above about who did the rescuing are correct). Even in a group of 3, 4 5+ someone must always have to go last!! Are any special precautions taken by that person in a group or not?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Bloody Hell
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
i'd say you need to reduce the risks to something you are comfortable with
finestgreen, not quite, trues ALARP would be out in level 1, stay home in everything else.
I'm comfortable at some levels (eg 3) provided i know where i am and my routefinding to stay off the level 3 (and what the weather's done lately etc), but will just not bother at other levels (eg 5). Others may go out on level 3 or 4 facing slopes once the suns baked them a bit etc
Forecasting is a pretty good science these days, and while you could pretty much survive by just heeding the numbers and know your terrain, its better if you know a bit about how the number became the number and how to recognise risky conditions/terrain
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Megamum, When I've been skiing in small groups we tend to stop at a distance within 5 mins of scrambling back up distance on suspect slopes and then turn to observe the last skier down. Harder to do on terrain where you are doing faster though.
Megamum, or you just let Scarpa go down first because he's the snowHeads resident avalanche poodle (I give you the secret salute of the resident crevasse poodle).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Zero-G, well, yes, I can see a certain advantage to perhaps skiing where the person in front has crossed safety on one hand, on the other do repeated passages across the same piece of snow in those sorts of conditions made a slide more likely. It was noticeable in the video that the person caught did not ski exactly where his colleague had previously gone, did he do this for safety reasons (given the answer to the previous question this may have been the case) or was he just after fresh tracks in new snow and was this his undoing?
After all it is free
After all it is free
I felt a wee bit sick watching that, scary stuff. I am sure it won't be long before someone youtubes a POV Avalanche video with a different ending.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Megamum wrote:
Zero-G, well, yes, I can see a certain advantage to perhaps skiing where the person in front has crossed safety on one hand, on the other do repeated passages across the same piece of snow in those sorts of conditions made a slide more likely.
Furthermore, it takes a lot longer for your mates to hike back up the slope to dig you out...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Megamum, skiing in someone's tracks doesn't guarantee anything, you could be the load that breaks it free (no offense!). If the slope is safe to ski (or a low risk I should say) then it's safe/low risk. If it ain't it ain't. "He made it, I'm next" is not a sensible mitigation on its own. Similarly if you're having to ski away from the general line of you're partner in case they've weakened it and you're worried you might let it go then I'd suggest maybe you should not be skiing that particular aspect
There's no single or simple mitigation - knowledge and decision making are key
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Apart from his line, I can see one other mistake by the skier above. As soon as he slipped he should have hollered for his mates - for their benefit as much as his.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
