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Clothing - Very Cold Temperatures

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Off to Le Grand Bornand next Tuesday, and forecasts are suggesting some very cold temperatures whilst we are there. Some models are predicting lows of -29c which is rather chilly to say the least. What protection do we need when skiing during those temperatures. Also how many layers, and what clothing do you think is best to keep you warm. Will one pair of socks be enough ETC? I have no experience of very cold skiing so any help appreciated.

Thanks.
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We were in St Anton last year where it reached -28 I believe. It was cold enough to freeze the beer around the inside of the pint glass anyway. I had the usual base and mid layers on, gloves with silk liners etc and I was warm enough while skiing. Bloody cold sat outside the pub but there...

The only thing I'd do different is find some better face protection. I bought the neoprene face mask in Canada on a previous trip and have never really got on with it. Seems to slip down and the mouth freezes up.

After a bit of research on here I've just ordered an air hole mask so hopefully will have better luck with that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If ut does get THAT cold just ensure bare skin is covered. Frostbite is not pleasent. Never had issues with cold feet.
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Enjoy your trip BTW
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Ricklovesthepowder wrote:
Will one pair of socks be enough


Adding extra socks will,AFAIK, just mess up the fit of your boots and probably create extra slop. However cold it is I now (cos they told me!) only wear the same socks as usual. Am prepared to be told off as I may be wrong Puzzled
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Ricklovesthepowder, nip down to Decathlon before you go to get the silk inner gloves and balaclavas, they are cheap and thin but warm. Also they have silk inner socks if you must though 2 pairs not really recommended. When it's been really cold I've worn insulated (not shell) jacket and trousers, merino long johns and base top, 2nd merino base top, thin fleece and maybe thin gilet. Silk inner gloves and balaclava under helmet. You can also pick up a cheap box of tea bag hand warmers from decathlon too to keep in your pocket. Have a nice time Very Happy
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Ricklovesthepowder, I think it's pretty unlikely to get that cold skiing in comparatively low altitudes. I would wear extra layer once it's colder than about minus 5. At - 15 I'd have 4 layers; thin merino,fleece, down gilet, ski jacket. Plus silk balaclava, neck warmer, very warm mitts. At - 29 I'd be tucked up in a warm bar. No chance of getting anything other than a very thin pair of socks in my ski boots, but I do have electric warmers. If you can get more than one pair of socks in your boots, they're too big. Hands are easier - silk liners help, and the tea-bag style hand warmers are brilliant, and cheap.

A silk or polyester balaclava under a helmet is cosy, and a neoprene face mask helps, too. Don't take your gloves off if you can help it. Stop for a hot drink. Do lots of short energetic turns. Jump about on drag lifts, stamp your feet, wave your arms about, keep moving. Stop for another hot drink. Try to stay on sunny slopes (if there's any sun to be found). Stop skiing around 3.30 (on a cold day it gets bitter once the sun starts going down, which it does early in January).
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Ricklovesthepowder, you don't need more socks for definite. You could look at ways to keep your boots warm if anyone in the group gets cold feet - neoprene boot gloves aren't a bad idea to take the edge off it.

Worth looking at base and intermediate layers - a thin fleece under ski jacket adds a lot of warmth and can be removed if it gets too hot.

Think carefully about face protection. I use one of these, and find it to be the best option of everything I've tried. http://airholefacemasks.com/

Next up is gloves. If it really comes in, mitts are really the way to go. Lots of options out there, but get something with a removable liner if you can. My level mitts are too warm at anything more than -10 deg.

We leave on Sunday, and the temps on the board for Tignes look fairly fearsome! We've done -35 which was pretty cold, but with mitts, a fleece and soft shell and decent face and neck protection it was ok.
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Ricklovesthepowder, just thought Decathlon Stockport had some of those thin down gilets with sleeves, reduced in the sale the other week, quite a lot of them too, they would make a good cold weather extra layer.
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Cheers for the replies. Things I need to go and but this weekend are

* silk glove liners
* balaclava
* neck warmer
* hand warmers.

What's people's opinion on feet warmers? I use the hand ones quite a bit, but if people are saying still only wear one pair of socks as anymore will not feel right etc, will foot warmers cause the same problems?
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pam w wrote:
Ricklovesthepowder

... At - 29 I'd be tucked up in a warm bar. ..


qft, as they say. Especially as I'm guessing that -29°C is forecast for the night time.
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agw, it's warned up a few degrees, but still cold, even in the daytime!

We arrive Tuesday morning

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Ricklovesthepowder, there's no chance of getting a tea bag warmer in your boots, just make sure boots are dry and warm when you put them on. Do like pam w says stamp your feet and come in for a drink if it's that bad, or try to get those neoprene over boot things as Monium says. At a real push I have been tempted to wear a pair of tights underneath my socks as they are very thin indeed, though never actually done it.
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Ricklovesthepowder,

The foot warmers will work quite well. They are very thin and stick on top of the toes.

Layering is your friend plus face masks.

Tuck everything in. The daytime temos don't look quite as frigthening. The kids play out at school here until -20C. Anything lower gets infintely colder. It feels like temp is ona log scale
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ricklovesthepowder, windproofing is the big one and face protection. Anywhere moist will get very uncomfortable with wind chill added. A box of teabag warmers is very useful and always carry spares with you. Don't do your boots up too tight and same with your gloves, too tight and they'll feel very cold. This time of year and with those temps it will be very dry so for the most part it won't feel anything like as harsh as you think. But if you get sweaty and start feeling the cold, get down off the hill and change or hit a nice warm bar to end the day. It's usually better when it's that cold to find a bar near where you're staying. A long walk back with a skinfull is not a good scenario in those temps.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque, there won't be an issue with walks back as the chalet is up the mountain, totally inaccessible after the lifts shut! I will get a load more hand warmers as they are pretty cheap.
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Ricklovesthepowder, make sure your wrists are well covered too. If the teabags you get are the ones with a bit of sticky on them to keep them in place (the foot ones) placing them on the back of the hand or against the inside of your wrist will keep your hands warm. I know someone who swears by tennis wrist sweat bands to hold them in place. I've spent quite a bit of time in these temps and sometimes in a tent and they are quite comfortable as long as you are dry. Wet gloves or socks are killers, carry spares with you on the hill along with a spare fleece. and make sure no-one's relying on just sunglasses.

If there are kids with you, double up on their stuff too. It's just a precaution, a glass of coke spilled into a glove renders them useless and dangerous.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ricklovesthepowder,
I've skied at -30. I don't really feel the cold, but that week I did invest in a thick fleece and a long sleeved base layer as I'm obviously going soft in my old age. That was all I really needed, but the chair lifts were still a bit unpleasant. A little extra face & ear protection would have been nice. That was before the kids (and my super warm helmet), so I was only wearing a beanie. I saw a lot of people in face masks that week.

There were frequent warning on the TV etc. that exposed skin would start to freeze after about 5 minutes.

Masque,
I have long warned people about the dangers of soft drinks wink
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Ricklovesthepowder, My pennies worth....

Keep exposed skin to a minimum, brief everyone to watch out for white waxy patches forming on any exposed skin of your groups faces (Frost nip), if someone develops white patches get them to put their gloved hands up in front of their face and blow into their hands to warm their face, which should thaw it out. Then head for the nearest restaurant for a hot drink to warm up.

Also, take your boot liners out every night and dry them on the room radiators, this will ensure you start the day with dry and warm boots and you won't get frost bite on your toes like I did in -20 dC.

Apart from that, enjoy, if you stay out in the proper cold you may well have a lot more mountain to your self!

Smile
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Ricklovesthepowder, Minimize exposure, put more/warmer layers. To protect face you may put some petroleum jelly (Vaseline) on it. Keep our hands and feet warm. I don't think wearing two pairs of socks is a good idea - you should be able to wiggle your toes a little. Ski fast and go inside often.
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Ricklovesthepowder, most of above seem good sensible steps to take, but a little surprised its not been mentioned that you must avoid situations that let your core temp drop. So obviously don't be standing around on the pistes waiting, keep the level of activity going. It's a bit more difficult to plan, but try and avoid long, slow, open chairlifts - try and stick to gondolas etc.
And finally, when you stop for a warming drink or lunch etc don't be fooled into stripping right down and leaving all you outer layers and particularly gloves to get cold. The inevitable consequence of this is when you go back out, and with all the previously generated sweat, you just won't warm up in fact quite the opposite you will get cold fast!
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rule 5
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
but failing that the thing to remember is that it is much harder to warm up if you get cold than it is to stay warm. If you stop for a break and its cold, go inside if possible.
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Rick,

1. How reliable is snow-forecast, especially neyond a couple of days? - not hugely.

2. How normal are -29C temps in Grand Bornand? - not very.

(-10C is entirely reasonable however)...

I wouldn't be getting too worried about exposure based on that information and you must have skied in -10C before?

A much better forecast for the area is Chamonix Meteo where you have real live people analyzing and interpreting the models.

And at the moment they're not saIg anything with confidence beyond Sunday...
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stiv24 wrote:
We were in St Anton last year where it reached -28 I believe. It was cold enough to freeze the beer around the inside of the pint glass anyway. I had the usual base and mid layers on, gloves with silk liners etc and I was warm enough while skiing. Bloody cold sat outside the pub but there...

The only thing I'd do different is find some better face protection. I bought the neoprene face mask in Canada on a previous trip and have never really got on with it. Seems to slip down and the mouth freezes up.

After a bit of research on here I've just ordered an air hole mask so hopefully will have better luck with that.


I was also in St Anton last year at -22C in the village at lunch time and much colder up on Valluga

I wore face covering but my my breath was diverted upwards into the vents on the bottom of my goggles which steamed and then froze
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Ricklovesthepowder, This was done in reasonable detail about htis time last year:

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=85798

For me if it gets really cold it s a thin down jacket like a Rab Microlight (or Primaloft equivalent - Montane Prism or similar) under the shell jacket and mittens rather than gloves. Hard to keep the feet warm though.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Make sure your boots are warm and dry when you put them on in the morning too.

Bootwarmers that work off the mains overnight are great for this.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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under a new name wrote:
2. How normal are -29C temps in Grand Bornand? - not very.


I skied LGB in temps below -30 last Feb.

Pointing out that it's a rare occurrence is moot. It did happen then, and it looks like it's possibly going to again.
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 You know it makes sense.
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Ricklovesthepowder, pah, I thought you were from Manchester? Just put a fleece on over your tee shirt.

Seriously looking at the forecast minus 10 seems more likely, which us easy.

I was in les arcs last year when it was minus 28 in the day, every day.

I wore silk liners, good gloves , two layers of leggings / thermal tops, one polo neck a merino jumper and a scott heavy jacket.
Only one pair of hestra socks, balaclava and a hat.

It was cold on the lifts, but once moving was fine.

Enjoy your trip.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Oh, is the wife skiing? If so you will need ear plugs as she moans about how cold she is and it's all your fault.*


* based on personal experience from fair weather skiing partner.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Was in VT a few years back when it was about -35 up top for a couple of days. Had on under armour top/base layer, rugby shirt and shell jacket and a pair of salopettes with cycling shorts underneath.

Was unspeakably cold on the lifts but not too bad once you got skiing again.

To be fair I'm not really one for feeling the cold though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ansta1 wrote:
rule 5

Not down there
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque wrote:
ansta1 wrote:
rule 5

Not down there
That's what tube socks are for.

Some wishful thinking in that one.
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We've skied in some cold conditions, -20C- last year in Austria, but it was in Les Arc's one day where a lifty saw us queing with kids and was absolutely adamant prior to getting on the lift that we were to take extra notice of the childrens warmth issues and make frequent breaks to warm them up in bars with hot drinks as they would chill quicker than us and he felt it was an excessively cold day - I think there was a breeze and the windchill would make things worse esp. on exposed lifts. For anyone reading this thread with kids its worth just that same reminder if it gets excessively cold where you are going. My kids get on really well with buffs and balaclavas under their helmets when it even slightly cold (and i will confess to liking a buff under mine!)
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Will you lot stop saying "buff" . . . my head pictures are just soooo wrong for that word . . . 'neck warmer' please! I've images that will need therapy to remove Sad
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But they are "buffs" not neck warmers - I wear a buff as a beanie under my helmet NOT as as neck warmer - I use a neck warmer for that Very Happy
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Masque,
Buff- headgear
Buff - 'in the' - starkers!
Buff - to rub something until it shines Shocked
Buffy - cute vampire slayer!

Any others!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Megamum wrote:
Masque,
Buff- headgear
Buff - 'in the' - starkers!
Buff - to rub something until it shines Shocked
Buffy - cute vampire slayer!

Any others!


Buff - muscular/toned

Yum.
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Buffer - more muscular/toned (or an old bloke who has forgotten where he left his skis outside the restaurant after lunch)
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Buff - the sound a boarder makes as he falls on his face for the 3rd time
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