 Poster: A snowHead
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| BMG wrote: |
....What if you are taken to a private hospital or the likes and then your EHIC card would not be valid? Might just be better to go with snow card for an extra £40 and not have to worry??
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BMG you make a really great point about EHIC not being accepted at a private hospital which I feel deserves emphasis. I've read through this thread and found it very enlightening (and amusing... SHs crack me up, even when discussing serious subjects  ). last Xmas my 13 year old broke lower tib and fib on a silly non-momentum fall while skiing together on-piste at Montgenevre and after being skied off the slope (with me sometimes working hard to keep up with the speed skiers driving the bloodwagon) we arrived at the ambulance for a 400 metre ambulance trip at the private medical centre (later cost for these two together was £563.77). He's been skiing since six and plays Hooker for his rugby team, so he's fairly strong and later managed to laugh (but that might have been the morphine lollipop talking).
The French casualty doctors at the local (private) medical centre were superb but they didn't want to play at all with an EHIC card so my mastercard took the strain. It turned out that EHIC would only be accepted at the major hospital which was a two hour drive away. Eventually we never did make that 2 hour drive but instead got Wills set and plastered (leg, not inebriated) at the local medical centre and gave him the prescribed Ibruprofen clone painkillers and this did the trick for Wills. Flew back early a couple of days later and the one saving grace for the travel insurance company was that they arranged a row of three seats for Wills so he could put his leg up during flight (no problem with that at all). On return, presenting the medical invoices to DWP overseas healthcare team meant that I received full rebates 10 months later, despite a number of calls (they are always working to a backlog....!!!!).
On reflection, two lessons occurred to me.
1. If it's a very serious injury on the slope it will probably mean a big hospital which will probably mean the EHIC will be accepted and personal cashflow won't be interrupted. If its not serious (e.g. 'just" a # tib and fib) it'll be a case of get the credit card out and claim a rebate later. BTW, the ambulance invoice comes in separately. The local hospital in resort is likely to be a private medical centre but its worth finding out for sure when you arrive there.
2. After the accident, the insurance company will probably offer you just pennies in the pound on whatever you claimed and the excesses eat up much more than you'd imagine. You must be prepared to fight (with well reasoned arguments) and if necessary challenge any poor practice which you encounter with formal complaints. Eventually if you persevere and have a strong argument they will move (a bit) but you must be prepared and ready to take them to the small claims court or other means if necessary (it'll cost you about £60 to do it yourself). After eight months of letter writing they moved, step by step from £540.42 to £1939.90.
I can document a formal complaint (three pages of A4 plus attachments) against this particular insurance company for five separate items and it was never really answered, let alone resolved. However, life is too short... Instead I've personally decided to avoid using annualtravelinsurance.com ever again, which strangely I found through a review on the consumer association site (who I've also cancelled my subscription to). I'll also avoid using an insurance company which outsources its claims management to travelclaims services limited who managed to turn the adminstration of the claim process into a complete nightmare although I have no doubt that their clients love them because they probably keep pay-outs to a bare minimum. I later made my complaint to MAPRE Assistance and worked my way to the most senior person I could find. She was much more helpful but still didn't answer my formal complaint.
What's the phrase? "whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".
So I'd better get back to researching our winter sports insurance renewal for Tignes on saturday 16th 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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accel, if your formal complaint was not dealt with you should have taken it to the insurance ombudsman.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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accel, sympathise, but that story is par for the course for insurance claims. You can complain until you go blue in the face but I can tell you for a fact that if anyone you spoke to raised your issue with a more senior person in contravention of the agreed internal procedure, they would have got screamed at and, maybe, penalised in some way. These people know what they are doing and regard client persecution as SOP, usually to some written standard. Someone correct me but wasn't there a circle of Hell that Dante reserved in part for insurance industry claims settlers??
EHIC is, was and only ever will be a substitue for the NHS. It was never intended to give access to private medical care. It's just that we tend to have much better access to state medicine in the UK than those elsewhere in the EU. That's why I pair it with the Carre Neige.
For an industry that bases itself on the 'uberrima fides' principle it's remarkable what degree the insurance companies act without any 'fides' whatsoever.The courts are next to useless in penalising the behaviour of such companies which is why they get away with it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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EDIT: Comment removed - completely wrong thread!
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 14-02-13 15:33; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RattytheSnowRat, there are many examples on this forum of claims being settled without the need for complaint.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| magicrichard wrote: |
| EDIT: Comment removed - completely wrong thread! |
It was a lot more interesting though 
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Hells Bells, I worked for a short time as an insurance lawyer. I quit and went into other fields of law (e.g defending people pleading guilty for multiple rape/murder charges - just kidding) because I felt it was a moral high ground compared to a vast amount of the insurance industry. I could open a combined estate agency and investment law banking practice and still feel I had the moral high ground over the vast majority of insurance companies. Personally, I have been lied to and misled, annoyed and frustrated, by a variety of insurers although certain insurers have been OK. That's not to say there are not several honest and morally straight people who work in the industry - I just never met them.
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there are many examples on this forum of claims being settled without the need for complaint.
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- the industry works on percentages to a great extent. If they did not pay the majority of real claims, people would not insure - simple. So the industry knows it has to pay out most of the time and price accordingly. When they start to dig their heels in is when they would lose money, it's got nothing to do with the veracity or validity of the insured claim. Timing also pays a considerable part in the process as liabilty for the loss passes to different sets of underwriters for various periods (that's the cunning part of the industry that nearly put a bullet in Lloyd's head - spiral re-insurance) You see, it's not just the general public who get screwed - it's their fellow insurers as well.
Don't trust me - see how much money insurers report they make and then consider how they could make this amount of moeny if they were acting farily as they are allegedly supposed to do. And - p.s. - those figures do not include the £millions they give to independant brokers/insurance salespeople every year. And if they screw it up, they just raise premiums to cover the loss and pray people don't switch.
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On this "private medical centre" thing and EHIC... the A&E medical centre here does not take EHIC, so you have to pay everything up front. EHIC will not get you a single penny off of the price there. They don't care about your EHIC at all.
However, they are conventionne, Secteur I and this means you can claim as much back of the cost as a French person would with a Carte Vitale. This was the same story for my subsequent physio sessions and for my operation at Annecy - none of these people took EHIC (or even really seemed to know what it was) but I could claim money back later because I had the EHIC.
If you are going skiing in France, you can look up doctors in the area you will be going to and see whether they are conventionne. If you're in good enough shape to take yourself off to the doctor, maybe you could go there rather than a "private" medical facility.
Select medecin generaliste from the list of professions in the middle box, put the postcode or name of the place you will be staying in the box saying 'ou?' then press recherche.
http://ameli-direct.ameli.fr/nouvelle-recherche/professionnels-de-sante.html
So when I do it for here, it brings up my doctors and shows that they are conventionne Secteur I which means I will be able to claim money back via EHIC - these are the doctors that run the local sports clinic and A&E, where you will get X rayed, plastered etc. as required, although this site seems to only have them listed under "Medecin Generaliste".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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miranda, that's really helpful advice - thanks. Much appreciated.
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miranda, Thanks for this - I have just looked up Les Gets and have seen our Medical Centre there - one of the docs is Secteur 2 so not sure what the difference is. I think in our experience down there - mostly with my busted knee cap a few years ago - we were able to claim some back through the EHIC and some through our private medical insurance but we paid upfront at the time.
I must spend a bit of time, and a dictionary, looking at the website. Do you know the difference between Secteur 1 and 2?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Chamcham wrote: |
| I think SCGB standard insurance covers on and off piste, with or without a guide and beyond the resort boundary, but check the details to be sure. Also very reasonably priced for their annual family policy. |
Not so sure about the reasonably priced bit: I characteristically left it too late to shop around but the SCGB premiums seem to have gone up about 34% in one year.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Pamski, from this http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F17042.xhtml I *THINK* that the difference is that sector 1 has fixed rates that they are obliged to stick to. Sector 2 also has this rate but can apply a fee on top and you will only be reimbursed at a sector 1 level. Thus sector 1 fee to see the doctor is €23 and you will be reimbursed 70% (€16). If you go and see a sector 2 doctor, they might charge you more than €23 but "within reason" and you will still only be reimbursed €16 but it shouldn't differ too wildly in terms of percentage. Then I think sector 3 look like they're free to charge whatever they like and you are unlikely to get much back by way of reimbursement as a percentage of what you might pay.
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DT68, We stopped taking the SCGB annual insurance a couple of years ago as it seemed to have gone up anyway but as one of us went over one of those special ages it went up even more. We seem to be ok now with MPI for a long one trip insurance which allows us to ski all winter, and we added a couple of trips home into it. We are covered by the bank for any travelling during the rest of the year so that is ok.
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You know it makes sense.
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Anyone got any good deals for OP in Canada? Been doing a search got some numbers but just wondering if there is anything better than £78 for 10 days?
Andy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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AJQ, last year I used insure and go for a trip to canada. The wording in their policy is that off piste is covered as long as you are in bounds which means in Canada you can ski anywhere within the boundary which is always clearly marked/signed. The insurance isnt so good for Europe as the boundarys are very fuzzy and dont usually exist. It is prob cheaper than £78 for 10 days. Worth a consideration - you could always call them to double check.
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Poster: A snowHead
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BMG, many thanks for the Info, will check them out shortly.
Andy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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BMG, yup - used Insure&Go in the past when I have been travelling further afield - no complaints
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just got a reply back from my current insurers and they say:-
"What I am willing to confirm is that this insurance policy will
provide cover if you are skiing on piste (i.e. within the resort
boundaries) which is patrolled by Ski Patrols."
Which in Norquay, SSV and LL, I will be. So happy days, my existing policy will cover it 
Andy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AJQ,
| Quote: |
if you are skiing on piste (i.e. within the resort
boundaries)
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tbh, that statement is either ambiguous or a contradiction in terms. The resort also includes balconies within its boundaries so are they saying you would be covered if you were attempting to hop from one to another on the 7th floor of your mega chalet on skis trying to perfect a park move and fell?? I don't think so. Also since off-piste is - almost by definition - not "patrolled by Ski Patrols", I would assume that no off-piste skiing is covered. At it's absolute silliest, the meaning could be that you are only covered if a Ski Patrol was on the same piste at the same time you were - no patrol = no cover. 
Sorry.
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I've always used the Ski Club of Great Britain for ski (and general) travel insurance, because it covers off-piste. I've never had to claim, though (thank goodness), and I was just wondering how reasonable they are about paying out. Has anyone here had any positive, or negative, experience of making a claim on SCGB insurance?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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J2R, I've used their annual executive insurance for a few years now and have claimed twice. From memory, the first claim was for £400+ and the second £300+; had no problems with either claim, although, they were a bit slow in paying out the second.
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AJQ, Off-piste in the Euro sense doesn't exist here.... it's in-bounds or out-of-bounds (backountry)..... Anywhere inside the marked resort boundary not specifically marked as closed terrain is open for riding and covered if your policy covers skiing as an activity.
Worth noting that in Banff National Park (Norquay, SSV, Louise), your parks entry fee covers the cost of rescue should you go skiing out-of-bounds and need it (but pleeeese dont rely on it!!).... but you probably wouldn't be covered for medical unless your policy specifically allows back-country (or off-piste) skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ramzee, thanks a million , that is good info for sure, not planning on any "Back Country" as that is beyond my capabilities.
It is good to know that "In Bounds" covers un-groomed, powder runs, bowls and mogul fields. It is definitely the way forward in Canada.
I'm just starting to get into Powder and Moguls so Happy Days !
Europe is so up themselves wrt what is on/off piste, boundaries etc. Seems a lot more defined over your neck of the woods
. Andy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ramzee, the recovery bit is based on the French Carre Niege. And the issue I had when skiing in Canada was that the inbounds/out of bounds divide was not always easy to tell. Some bits were obvious but some I couldn't tell. This was awhile back so things may have changed but if it's anything like the border in the mountains between countries in Europe, it's not always that clear.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| RattytheSnowRat, as for cost I paid less than £100 for an annual policy for a couple. |
With mpi? I just got an online quote out of interest. £126 for top level of annual travel inc wintersports or £96 for lower cover. Individual rather than couple. 22-65 bracket.
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You know it makes sense.
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Lift faffer, sounds familiar - a bit too toppy for me given that they will not let me claim for various things that others could and I'd need the top level of cover.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lift faffer, RattytheSnowRat, sorry, my price I quoted above was probably a bit misleading, as I deleted cancellation and baggage cover as I have it with my bank's policy. My MPI policy is Excel and for Europe only for a couple.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hells Bells, aaahhhhhh - the small print, that explains it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RattytheSnowRat, hardly an experience of a typical skier on holiday. These are early retired ex-pats who don't contribute to the healthcare system.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hells Bells, yeah, but they are resident so actually have more of a shot than a transient holiday maker who may or may not be 20+ yoa (NB: the couple in question retired early and I think it says at least one was in their 50's i.e. - not outside the bounds of possibility that they and others of their age might need ski insurance ) Also the French created an EU system whereby it was not necessary to have been a contributor in the actual country to benefit. If you want to be picky, have a gander at the number of French living in London now. It was 1m+ and it's now going epidemic (that's larger than many French 'cities' and actually created a major swing vote in the last election - the French parties canvassed and door stepped over here. They even sent Carla Bruni, ffs! Now that's serious!!). And they can all rely on the NHS under EU law.
Apropos the above they just opened a new French school in London due to the lack of capacity in the established venues - it closed it's admissions book about 90 seconds after it opened, that's how bad the invasion is.
My point was slightly more general - if that's how the treat English people resident in France, it's likley that the same attitude would be displayed to tourists trying to claim a refund under E111's. I agree that it's stretching an anaolgy just a tad but I still think it's interesting re the French attitude in this area.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RattytheSnowRat, and the Brits with valid E106 and EHIC can rely on the French system too, there was much confusion caused in France by Sarko removing the entitlement of retired ex-pats of a certain age then going back on it because it flouted EU law. Not unlike what our own government are attempting to try with Romanians.
Our experience with French system and EHIC is fortunately rather better, and if you do fail to sort the refund while in France you just contact DWP in Newcastle and they sort the refund for you. We weren't even asked to pay any bill upfront (apart from local doc and that was 20€), they all arrived. We then passed them on to the insurer and they sorted payment, and arranged DWP refunds.
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FAQ
