 Poster: A snowHead
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I know after my experience in the summer i would be terribly wary of walking around in snow/icy conditions for any extended period even in a brace.
Reading that brought back unpleasant memories of both occasions. Even my first "knee" in 2000, recalling that makes my toes curl.
If it is fully ruptured then it wont do any more damage as it has gone anyway. If it is "just" badly torn then further damage is possible, no?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What do you think people who permanently live and work in the Alps do when they injure their knees during the winter season?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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miranda, Good point, probably wear crampons! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| miranda wrote: |
| What do you think people who permanently live and work in the Alps do when they injure their knees during the winter season? |
In my case sit on the sofa and drink endless cups of tea 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stewart woodward, blimey, that does sound terribly boring.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| miranda wrote: |
Weathercam, feel free to PM if I can be of any help, having just been through the whole process using EHIC and Carte Neige.
patricksh, you're being a bit weird in this thread - if her knee is immobilised in a brace, she can do whatever she feels comfortable doing without further jeopardising things, so not sure why her desire to stay in France is being seen as either a terrible or brilliant idea, nor why Weathercam's parenting is being commented on  |
I apologise for being weird. But when people post their personal lives on line and invite commentary, one has a tendency to comment. But I still wonder about wisdom of staying in a ski resort. How many flights of stairs does she have to walk up and down a day? So far not one person has said that they previously injured their ACL and they are now perfect. Have her op in France and how will follow-up work? I thought weathercam had an Orthopod buddy in the UK who could have ensured red carpet treatment for his daughter. Has anyone considered she probably won't now have a career as a ski instructor because her knee will limit this and advise her she needs to find another day job? I wouldn't manage the situation this way. I assume its ok to say so as the story is posted on an open forum and advice from all has been invited.
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patricksh, 7 months post op my knee is now perfect - I am running a chalet, up and down stairs the whole time. Pre-op I was cooking for guests and serving in the bar every evening and going up and downstairs. I couldn't do so much cleaning though - which was a real hardship...
My French surgeon was recommended to me by a ski instructor who has said his knee post ACL repair was better than it had been before the ACL rupture - I'm not surprised, I have been delighted with the outcome of my surgery. I have no idea if she wants to be a ski instructor but many, many ski instructors and racers have broken their ACL and continued their careers, so really, stop with the completely unnecessary doom and gloom!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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patricksh, didn't realise you were after positive ACL outcome stories, so here's another I ruptured my ACL dec 2004, had surgery may 2005 and was back to hockey training dec 2005. I am perfectly happy with that knee it feels rock solid and I am playing hockey, going to the gym has been skiing quite a few times since and done lots of carrying of my kids around dare I say it that one feels perfect (cant say same about my other knee but that was a different injury and different story)
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Weathercam,
You right about a. Wrong about b and c
Outcome of ACL is obviously related to extent of injury. I know there are many who have had ops for minor degrees of injury with successful outcomes, but they probably would have done just as well without surgery
Severe injuries with full-on knee instability are a different beast though and guarded prognosis for back to full perfection to put it mildly
Trouble is, you don't know what kind of injury your daughter has, cos she has not seen orthopod nor had scan, right?
You have an Orthopod buddy who owes you some favours?
One of my best buddies is an Orthopod and if it was my kid, I would have him seeing her within 24.
I deduce the cost of a flight home for her would not be a major problem to you. I just would have thought get her home, get seen by someone who knows more than me or you, and if he says she head back out, then do that. Honestly I think perspective is lacking doing it any other way.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
patricksh, life is never simple and easy following a set of pre conceived guide lines........... plus I sort of deduce (maybe wrongly) from your posts that
b) ...the right type of kids and had a "cool" relationship with them |
I think I've just done a little bit of a sick... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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patricksh, my knee was very unstable though thankfully was a clean ACL rupture, I could feel it doing figure of eights with every step I took and had it collapse under me going down stairs once (I ensured I always held a hand rail after that!), yes with a lot of muscle work I could have lived with it if prepared to never play hockey or go skiing again, so that was not an option for me
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You know it makes sense.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| Weathercam wrote: |
patricksh, life is never simple and easy following a set of pre conceived guide lines........... plus I sort of deduce (maybe wrongly) from your posts that
b) ...the right type of kids and had a "cool" relationship with them |
I think I've just done a little bit of a sick... |
+1
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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NickyJ, that's great and very encouraging. But I hope I'm not being misunderstood, surgery is gold standard for ACL injury, but I would think first thing to be done with a fresh injury is plug your contacts to tryto get expert assessment, advice and management plan asap, not limp around in cold, snow, up and down stairs, risk of slipping on ice, seeing other young people party and want to join in, etc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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patricksh, why does she have to head home to see someone who knows about knee injuries? She's in the Alps!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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miranda, it makes sense to me cos her Dad's friend is a purported expert knee surgeon and I'm sure would have obliged his friend by at least seeing his daughter within days. Maybe we are afraid what he will say?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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With mine I got musket down the slope with the help of hubby and ski patrol guy with a skidoo, as it was our last day I went home and saw my gp 3 days after the injury he just sent me away for 2 weeks to see if the swelling would go down, roll on two weeks, he then refers to orthopedist consultant 6 weeks after that I see him he refers me to phsyio and books the MRI. 5 weeks for MRI, then another 5 weeks to see consultant again who says he now will put me in the waiting list with a comment that he didn't really need the MRI to confirm the rupture as my knee was so unstable when he tested it (so why did he make me wait 10weeks before being PUT on the waiting list) However asy surgeon always did it with over night stay it meant I was able to use my private health cover I had at the time to get the op done. However I was unable to have the surgery until ai got full range movement back and the swelling down which is a combi of time and Physio exercises. To be honest I would bet the Physio in resort will be a lot better than the completely new and inexperienced phsyio I got off the NHS, seriously every question I asked her she didn't know wrote down to presumebly google after I left. In resort I would expect the medical staff etc to be very experienced with the sort injury which The Physio I had afterwards (from the private hospital) was fantastic and was as much the reason I am sure for such a good an complete recovery (coupled w itu the surgeon being very good as well).
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^^^ that!
She is having the time of her life "right now!" No amount of rushing home is going to speed up her recovery...when the season is done with, her knee will most likely be in better shape for surgery!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bit of ice and plenty of alcohol and she'll be fine. mtfu.
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The question isn't whether she goes home to see the NHS.. That would be stupid. The question is whether she goes back to see this knee expert, which seems smart.
NickyJ, When I broke my leg I was in surgery in 2 hours and starting light physio few days after (in Austria). Come back to uk and get put in cast. Fast forward 6 weeks, cast is off, lots pf muscle atrophy. Tell me to walk out woot having physio or giving pointers and put me on wait list. Spent 200 quid on physio for next 3 months, got NHS physio appointment month later by which time I was already walking... They're useless when it comes to injuries of this nature IMO.. Have had similar experiences with other knee injuries.
But it raises a point for Weathercam, that when his daughter returns to the UK to find a relevant private physio that knows what they're doing!
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Am not from UK so don't know much about NHS, but from sound of a lot these posts it seems beyond crap.
But just cos a doctor is French doesn't mean he/she will be better. I know a lot of people who attended doctors in French ski resorts and had significant injuries missed, including a friend of mine who had a fracture of his radius missed in Courchevel.
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My point was that I don't believe the delays were detrimental to the overall recovery when looked in the long term
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This isn't about resort doctors or French doctors. It's about the fact that she can get an MRI pretty quickly for 60 or so euros and go and see an expert in a proper hospital, get a plan and date for repair, and then get in resort prehab physio three times a week from someone who deals with ACL injuries day in, day out, for €15, 65% of which will later be reimbursed (and the remainder will be reimbursed by your Carte Neige if you have one). There are some excellent knee specialists in the Alps - rushing back to the UK is a pretty (ahem) knee-jerk reaction IF someone wants to stay in the Alps. If you want to go back to the UK, then rushing back there would make sense.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 3-01-13 23:55; edited 1 time in total
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Ah ok, can't comment on ACL, but with my leg break if I had waited I would have risked having a limp and further damaging myself.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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miranda, thanks, it's a little tedious trying to explain it all and your post is quite succinct, trouble is this thread had gone a little off topic and should be in the Ski Fitness, Exercise, Injury and Rehab section under yours and others ACL thread !
patricksh, you say get seen in 24, what with all the swelling?
All my guy would do (that's if he answers his text anyway), and like any other decent physio would do would be a Lachman test and some other stuff which is not a 100% prognosis, and is so damn painful in order to determine (what is known already) that one has a major stability problem with the knee and would then advise getting an MRI ???
Sorry about the making a couple of you sick  but what do you think patricksh, is doing to me 
PS this is the blog I did on my ACL prehab / op http://www.anotherharddayattheoffice.co.uk/aclknee.html as someone has already said, if you go down the NHS route you might be waiting at least 10 weeks for an MRI !
Basically -
"To leap frog the system as it were, I suggested to my GP that I pay for an MRI, to do that he had to refer me, he thought that was a good move saving at least a couple of months as the NHS process would be, GP referral to Muscular Skeletal (3 or 4 weeks), who would then see me, only to refer me to Orthopaedics (3 or 4 weeks) who would then say I need an MRI (another 3 or 4 weeks).
GP then four days after the MRI rang me up to tell me the results, I then had to go and see him and we decided that I would pay to go to see the knee consultant, again jumping the system as it were."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Her latest blog is now up at http://www.stylemountain.com/physio-and-pints-in-the-sun
We're out in Tignes this week and good news is that she has an MRI in Albertville this Friday at 17:30 so we can go down with her, and my brother who is more French than English will meet us there, I'm also armed with blank DVD's so can ask (hopefully) for a couple of copies of images.
Have also been in contact with my friendly knee consultant and he'll look over the MRI and then we'll decide next steps.
Meanwhile she's out here carrying on working, I bought her some Ice Grippers for her shoes and that helps loads when she's walking around on the hard frozen snow, that said it's so cold that the snow that fell on Friday and has been on and off since has made it quite grippy under foot.
As for conditions, been skiing fresh snow but nearly all tracked out, viz on and off. Have a guide booked via Evolution for the next three days along with friends who are out here, and on Wed taking a couple of the "dudes" that have helped my daughter over the past couple of weeks as a thank you.
Will report back on the guiding, I do have some reservations, as they say that there will be no need to use touring kit to get to untracked, plus they did not know if any of their guides had that kit, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised, wait and see !
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Weathercam, haha a gentle telling off for dad for discussing it on a certain ski forum
Very readable, a darn sight better than the whiney blog discussed on another thread
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You know it makes sense.
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Bit of an update / recap
She did it Xmas Eve, and decided to carry on working as walking wounded out in Tignes rather than return back to UK and mope around back here.
We went out second week Jan and paid for an MRI whist we were out there (Albertville 69 Euro) which confirmed rupture of ACL - I was then able to bring back images & CD and drop into my friendly knee surgeon for him to assess.
In the meantime it transpired that as she's working her insurance would have paid for a private ACL op, so we put that into the mix as well.
But to cut a very long story short, she's having the Op back here in the UK March 26 on the NHS carried out by my friendly knee surgeon. That does throw a couple of spanners in the works in that my other half will have to come back from Serre to be with her.
Anyway she's been updating her Style Mountain blog and you can read more here if you so wish
http://www.stylemountain.com/the-seasonairehead
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Weathercam wrote: |
Bit of an update / recap
In the meantime it transpired that as she's working her insurance would have paid for a private ACL op, so we put that into the mix as well.
But to cut a very long story short, she's having the Op back here in the UK March 26 on the NHS carried out by my friendly knee surgeon. That does throw a couple of spanners in the works in that my other half will have to come back from Serre to be with her.
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So basically shes now a burden on the nhs to look after, whilst your freindly knee bod gets moolah for fixing it, hope hes bunging you a few quid as a referral.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| miranda wrote: |
| What do you think people who permanently live and work in the Alps do when they injure their knees during the winter season? |
When I busted my ACL in Jan 2009 I was instructed to take three days off work to let the swelling go down then was back doing 45 hours a week in a shop, wearing an articulated knee brace, until the end of the season. The guy sharing the Grenoble hospital room with me was a pisteur who had done six seasons and all his pisteur exams with a bust ACL and a knee brace... Once it's snapped it's snapped, nothing else to think about unless she has massive cartilage issues.
Went to see a surgeon in Grenoble recommend by the doctor in resort as he does pretty much nothing else but repair ski damaged ACLs and was also known to the physio in resort, who spends most of his life rehabilitating ski damaged ACLs. A fairly convincing combo, which it seemed to me was unlikely to be rivalled by any in the UK.
Good luck to your daughter Weathercam, given hindsight and the bloody annoying recovery period I'd spend a lot of time talking to physios now.
p.s. I skim-read her blog, which seems very genuine, but I can't believe there exists a site behind it obsessed with what people wear on the hill! Most of my friends/colleagues don't give a toss so it reminded me more of the film Chalet Girl than real life!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well re-reading this post after my visit to the physio today.
Since my last post in early Jan i skied in Austria for a week (lads trip) did a fair bit of mileage and was okay.
Did a family trip two weeks ago in France. Very gentle apart from a mad afternoon with another Dad from the hotel. 2 KM mogulled black then a mental hoon around a lot of reds. Got in the bar and my knee ballooned up. Stiff but kept going for the week. Could ski better than walk.
Back to work and asked for an appointment with the physio.
Appointment today. Got on the couch, within a minute he said "you have no ACL in your left leg".
Must have been snapped since my incident in the summer. So as long as your knee is in otherwise reasonable condition you can ski to a sensible standard without issue.
One interesting point to add to this thread is that women are more vunerable to ACL injuries than men.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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