Poster: A snowHead
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Evening all,
Just to settle a small wager, can any boot expert please give the gospel truth on the order ,if any, to clip up your boots and the relative importance of each clip on a 4 clip boot.
Ta briand
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not a 'boot expert' but here's what I teach:
Clip 1: Toes - do up with the strength of a finger (weak). Should be able to wiggle your toes but not lift your foot.
Clip 2: Foot - do up with the strength of a thumb (slightly stronger). Unable to lift foot but not crushing the cuniform bones (top of your foot) - especially the medial cuniform.
Clip 3: Ankle - do up with the strength of your palm (firm). Unable to lift your heel but still able to flex forward.
Clip 4: Leg - do up with the strength of your palm (really firm). If you sit back on your heals there shouldn't be any gap at the top of the front of the boot.
You forgot the last part.
5: Power strap - do up really firmly.
To qualify 'firmly'. Not so firmly that you are at risk of cutting off the circulation. You may also find that during the course of the day your feet/legs expand and shrink. Be prepared to phaff a bit throughout the day if needed to maintain the right levels.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Do the clips over your shin first to pull your foot back into the heel pocket. I don't think the clips over the foot do much more than keep the shell clsoed/liquid out, but I'm not a boot expert so could well be wrong about that. I have those clips fairly loose though.
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Don't think there are rules about this. I do clip 3 then clip 4 then clip 1 then clip 2, before tightening the strap. Mostly finger tight, sometimes a little bit tighter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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flowa, I think boot experts will disagree. The normal advice is to do up the lower shin buckle first to move the foot back into the heel, then the top buckle, finally the foot buckles.
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I think what the bootfitter told me was ankle first, whilst flexing knee forward, so heel is kept really firmly back in boot. I find this pretty essential in my Zipfits. So my order is the same as rob@rar,
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geepee, no doubt - for sure there isn't a 'gospel'. Re the 'normal advice', which I've never come across til you wrote it , I bang the heel of the boot on the floor to get my foot (and liner) back and then start clipping from 1. Which just goes to prove your point all the more
briand6868, I already wrote this in another thread but didn't go into the detail I gave you above. I'm sharing this quote because I have directly linked 'sore legs' to how boots are done up so I thought it might add to your debate if that is a component of it.
flowa wrote: |
Red_Robbo, how do you do your boots up? I suspect part of why your legs hurt is that your boots are too tight across the top of your feet and not firm enough from the ankle up your leg. Also ensure there's nothing else in your boot than your sock. I come across these issues all the time with skiers of all ability. If your boots are too loose on your ankle and leg, it is very difficult to get your weight "forward" onto the balls of your feet - instead it's very easy to rest on your heels, which is why your legs hurt so much.
When you do your boots up, make sure you can wiggle your toes comfortably and your legs are firmly gripped, without being too tight. Only then will you have control to follow the advice from rob@rar. . . . |
If it isn't, no worries
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briand6868, You are a racer, just do up the power/booster strap and hook the wire loops over the bales. Once you have warmed up it won't matter what order you close the clips.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, rob@rar, understand the theory - I've just always banged my heel to do that. I'll try your approach next time I buckle up
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 21-12-12 21:01; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The only thing I would add is that after 'walking' shut the two shin buckles you will need to re-tighten the power strap up again. I also rarely do up the instep buckle until after the first run - I find it takes that long for the inner to warm up and compress enough to be able to do it up without cutting off the circulation. I should add that I have wide, high instep feet and both foot buckles are on the first catch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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3rd buckle then 4th, then tighten 3rd as tight as you can without pain (it is this clip that holds you in the back of the boot and stops any forward slide/toes being jammed at the front) flex the boot forward a couple of times, one foot at a time to get a really deep flex... then 1st clip, just enough to stop (most of ) the water coming in then the 2nd clip again just snug enough to close the boot and hold things
if you start at the toe then by the nature of how your foot goes into a boot the toes will be at the front and if you clip those clips first they will stay there, this is often the reason that people in boots that are too big still think that the boots are the right size or too small, banging the heel on the ground has two effects, sometimes it locates the heel other times it bounces and the toes end up at the front again
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There is the 'right' way and then there is the way that I find practical. When the boots are cold and the plastic is stiff and you don't seem to be getting anywhere close with getting anything done up, I find that there is a lot to be said for putting on some tension by doing up the powerstrap first - you can always then undo it once you get a couple of clips sorted and do it at the proper time later, but as a general tip I sometimes find that can help a lot.
briand6868, I bet this thread didn't help to settle your wager . However, I would go with CEM, if you want to quote a definitive answer as he is the most respected boot person around.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just goes to show there's no one, definitive answer.
CEM is an experienced and well respected bootfitter.
However, Jojo in Nevada Sports is also a well respected and experienced fitter, and his recommendation was to start at the toes and work up, albeit with the heel tap before you start.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We were told by a couple of different boot fitters in Canada the same sort of routine as described by CEM, and Edge and Wax.
Bang the the heel once to locate it in the boot, then do the clips in order, alternating the lower and upper leg clips before the front clips.
Its always worked so we stick with it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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flowa's order was what I was taught when I first started skiing. Now it's kind of 3-4-1-2, but with way more faff, cos the buckles don't meet.
So for me... 5 (partially) to hold the cuffs together so I have 2 hands free, 4, hook 3, unlatch 4, hook 1+2, flex, 3-4-1-2-5, flex again for good luck, repeat (I think that's right). My 1+2 are not even finger pressure - They only just about have enough cam action going on to keep them closed, so I doubt that order matters much? Was way easier when the boots were toasty warm in the shop! And I've learned not to leave the in the car overnight, because that officially makes it a 2-man job.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For me the biggest realisation was that the buckles don't have to be done up so tight (ie as tight as I could physically buckle them). Although, on the other hand I might not have had to do them up so tight if they weren't two sizes too big!!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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2 then 3 then 4 then power strap then 1, then retighten after a run to normal clip tightness. 1 is to stop the boot leaking but I prefer gaffe tape as does Thalman on Head boots WC.
On clip tightness, I over enthusiastically clipped one more than usual for a particularly turny course, my feet were dead asleep in 100 meters and I had managed to damage the joint between the intermediate cuneiform and metatarsal bone on my left foot; this causes no problems at all apart from putting the boot on which is screaming F.. Agony. The cure rest it for a while ….. Pass the aspirin
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My boot fitter told me to only do clip 4 up enough so it catches and stays together - because I have big muscly female calves - important difference for men and women. He did say clip 3 is the most important.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RibenaRockstar,
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big muscly female calves
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...or shapely feminine ankles
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Typically I do up the powerstrap first just to make it easier to clip things down. Then just run down the boot to the toe before redoing the powerstrap. I'm almost always doing boots up at the back of the car so tend to buckle everything loosely then wander around a bit with the boot in walk mode anyway which probably helps everything into the right place. I have to say that I really can't see what blind bit of difference it makes after all the motion you go through whilst actually skiing.
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Elston wrote: |
For me the biggest realisation was that the buckles don't have to be done up so tight (ie as tight as I could physically buckle them). |
I had the same issue early on with my boots. I was so used to rubbish hire boots, that I did the boot up as tight as tight could be... and finished the day's skiing with a straight line bruise across the back of my calf (one tumble too many, in stupidly tight boots).
Now that I am "at one" with my boots, I have worked out the perfect clip setting (and order) that suits my legs. (1-2-loose 3-loose 4-tighter 3-tighter 4), and then redo the buckling after the first run (when everything has settled down in there).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I use the Edge & Wax method, which feels good for me, my boots are very snug so getting the heel right back helps a lot. Graham at Rivington Alpine also followed this sequence.
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