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New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque, it is true though.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pj ski ...... can you really lick your genitals ??? NehNeh
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gotoma86 wrote:
Wow, Ski Club of Great Britain have re-launched their chat forum and it looks good. Simple sign-up, you don't need to become a member plus they seem to have introduced profiles as well. Well this will be fun, who's going to jump ship and start using the Tea Club forum then?


Who would have thought, eh? A mere 6 weeks and nearly 50,000 views later and the whole issue is sorted out and everyone seems to be getting on beautifully. We're now on to licking ones own balls. Classic.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Bode Swiller wrote:
Gotoma86 wrote:
Wow, Ski Club of Great Britain have re-launched their chat forum and it looks good. Simple sign-up, you don't need to become a member plus they seem to have introduced profiles as well. Well this will be fun, who's going to jump ship and start using the Tea Club forum then?


Who would have thought, eh? A mere 6 weeks and nearly 50,000 views later and the whole issue is sorted out and everyone seems to be getting on beautifully. We're now on to licking ones own balls. Classic.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
should we discuss technique, stance and where our hands and pole should be
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
flangesax, what is? That the only thing that makes him happy is the ability to lick his nuts clean?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I thought I'd just have a quick look at the 'facts' as displayed by SCGB.

Apparantly I should fly in to Innsbruck to access where I live (Radstadt).
Innsbruck is 3hrs from my house - Salzburg is 45min...

When I then look at Altenmarkt on the SCGB site (which is the same mountain as Radstadt using the same lift system) the stats are all complete nonsense and are mixed up with Zauchensee.

"Altenmarkt is an unspoilt village conveniently located for the snow sure
rolling eyes rolling eyes rolling eyes
resorts of Obertauern and the Salzburg Sportwelt
which Altenmarkt is part of
."

Radstadt is situated on the through road to Obertauern and also has ski bus services to Obertauern, Altenmarkt does not.

The only contact SCGB have ever had with me is to try to sell advertising on their site.
The marketing call is amusing as the pitch is a 'you have been specially selected' type of script... 'and for only £X you can be included in our exclsuive Ski Club listings'...
IMO it may be worth the SCGB considering building genuine contacts in resorts... to actually build some "facts".
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

to actually build some "facts"

like who can/cannot lick their own balls?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
One thing that intrigued me last autumn was the pitch of 32-year-old Patrick Usborne, campaigning for a place on the SCGB council. He won it. This is what he wrote:

Quote:

PATRICK USBORNE
Proposed: Robert Farquharson Seconded: Ian Robinson

Over one hundred years ago the Ski Club was formed by
a group of snow enthusiasts with an average age of just
thirty. The fourteen young men at the Café Royal, who
had an undeniable thirst for fun and adventure, wanted
to encourage others to share their passion for the sport
regardless of ability, age or ambition.
I am 32, and have been a member and Ski Club Leader for
over ten years. During this time I have spoken to many
members, non-members and Leaders. What I hear on
countless occasions, from all generations, is that with the
average age of membership now over fifty, there is an
inadequate focus on the younger generation. If you’re my
age, why would you join a club when many of your fellow
members are twenty years older?
I agree with growing the Ski Club. Let’s use the young and
dynamic Ski Club staff to address this age imbalance and
make the difficult, yet long term, decision to increase the
focus on the younger generation, who will be the future of the
Ski Club, and bring back the vision those fourteen young men
set out to achieve. If you agree, please vote for me.


So, despite what Masque says (which has a lot of truth in it), there are youngish people who have taken the trouble to understand why clubs form and maybe what sustains them. Certainly, the influences of commercialism (which Masque rightly highlights) run very deep in what the SCGB is now.

I think I can see the future, and 2013 could be an interesting year in resolving a crisis. Patrick Usborne is right: a club with an average age of 50 ... unless it involves old men chucking their (unlicked?) balls across a perfectly groomed lawn ... is in deep crisis. I assume he's right about the demographics, which seem astonishing since all family memberships now include offspring up to the age of 24.

I guess the videos of Dan HB above are part of a strategy to involve uni students, but unless they're recruited in some sort of 'bulk' arrangement I'm not sure how this works. Let's see. There seem to be moves in that direction.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Sun 3-02-13 12:49; edited 2 times in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
flangesax, The 'Club' is just a business and I'm not sure it's even a particularly good one. Nearly all the people I've met over a number of occasions who 'represent' the SCGB are unmitigated turds. I have met many wonderful 'members'. There is a difference.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Comedy Goldsmith,
Quote:
...is in deep crisis...


Yeah right. rolling eyes

It's got 34k members and a healthy turnover. It's certainly seems to have weathered the financial crisis very well. Again, this is you trying to sell a lie and ignoring all the facts to do it.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
PJSki, just for the record. I don't hate the club, I dislike intensely the sheer idiocy and plain abuse of its standing and history for nothing more than ego and economic gain.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
PJSki, are you sure about that 34,000 figure? The members' home page on skiclub.co.uk certainly gives that figure.

This page of the site gives another: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/advertise/aboutus.aspx#.UQ5Q8_J7TTo

The most recent (unpublished) paying units figure is apparently around 16,000. On the old ratio (before 18s-24s were included in the gross figure), the gross membership from 16,000 paying units would be about 24,000.

As I say, if around 7,000 - 10,000 SCGB members are therefore 18-24, it's pretty amazing for the Club to have an average age of 50.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Masque wrote:
PJSki, just for the record. I don't hate the club, I dislike intensely the sheer idiocy and plain abuse of its standing and history for nothing more than ego and economic gain.


How does a non-profit organisation pursue economic gain? And you certainly do hate its Leaders. Jealously?
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
PJSki, are you sure about that 34,000 figure? The members' home page on skiclub.co.uk certainly gives that figure.

This page of the site gives another: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/advertise/aboutus.aspx#.UQ5Q8_J7TTo

The most recent (unpublished) paying units figure is apparently around 16,000. On the old ratio (before 18s-24s were included in the gross figure), the gross membership from 16,000 paying units would be about 24,000.

As I say, if around 7,000 - 10,000 SCGB members are therefore 18-24, it's pretty amazing for the Club to have an average age of 50.


The average age of people in the UK is 41.5, so I can see how the average age of the ski club can be 50.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
PJSki, So you only speak on behalf of the non-commercial activities of the Club? . . . You should be Goldenrod's chief fanboi?

your position is:



desperate at best.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It would be interesting to know the average age of a registered snowHead. Can't be far off 50 either.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Bode Swiller, somewhere between death and decomposition?




no, sorry, that's the Tea Club wink
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ansta1, yes, to be not for profit, you have to try hard to make a profit first. Then you can reinvest that surplus. Aim to make no profit and you are doomed.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
whoops, ipad reposted previous post about, then spuriously deleted that and all posts after it.m
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Masque wrote:
PJSki, So you only speak on behalf of the non-commercial activities of the Club? . . . You should be Goldenrod's chief fanboi?

your position is:



desperate at best.


Well, according to you and Goldsmith the SCGB is in desperate straights. But, by all accounts, you've been saying that for 10 years and Goldsmith has been saying it for 30.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
PJSki, can you parse a sentence or fragment thereof? I've only described you as desperate. The 'Club' as failed but the business is trading adequately. My point has always been that the SCGB is not a 'Club' it is a false frontage to the business.

If you prefer: You are out promoting the charity shop while pretending you don't know what the Thai masseuse and her palls are doing in the stockroom.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

I thought I'd just have a quick look at the 'facts' as displayed by SCGB.

I did the same as flangesax and found a fair old farrago of nonsense about the Espace Diamant, too. Inconsistent, inaccurate, etc etc. Praz sur Arly, highest lift 2050m (correct) apparently has a vertical drop of 2050m. Laughing

I don't know who would use these daft statistics on website like J2ski or the SCGB rather than look at the information produced by the resorts themselves - their websites are mostly quite good, these days.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Masque,
Quote:

PJSki, can you parse a sentence or fragment thereof? <snip> her palls



Snigger.

My average age is 24
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.

118 Eaton Square, Belgravia. Former SCGB clubhouse
PJSki wrote:
Well, according to you [Masque] and Goldsmith the Ski Club is in desperate straights ... Goldsmith has been saying it for 30 [years].


Again, utterly untrue. 30 years ago I was beginning a stint of 10+ years as the equipment editor of the SCGB's magazine. Our team of editors, writers and designers took the paid (non-member) circulation to 12,000. In other words, it was widely available and selling well at ordinary newsagents. We (the magazine team) saw the Club's situation as anything but "desperate". It occupied a prime piece of real estate in central London and had a solid membership base.

Certainly, 30 years ago, the Club was viewed as a bit 'toffy' - out of touch with the mass market - and a bit eccentric in terms of its on-snow activities ... but it had great potential. We (a team generally in our early 30s, pretty experienced in magazines) could see that as long as the Club stayed true to its roots of independence from commercially-driven decision-making ... and it's very important to know what that means (it doesn't mean alienation from ski businesses) ... it could have a golden future.

It's all about skier-relevance, reader-relevance.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
PJSki, earlier today I asked a question with a rather inappropriate illustration (now deleted), which you understandably didn't answer. Here's a similar question, in a modified form, which I hope you can help with:

Does your surname begin with an A and end with an N? [Examples could include Atkinson, Anderson, Austin, Ashton, Admin, Addison, Allerton, Asprin etc.]
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
from an outsider looking in over the last twenty years, isnt thats what has happened ,... spin off from maggies 70's 80's get up and do it yourself thing, giving the young ( cg and his cohorts ) the chance to sieze the opportunity and take it by the balls and show the old establishments that progression is here, deregulation across the board as to what we are fed etc ... and so different magazines have gone on issue across the spectrum to what we now have ie a plethora of shite dribble about every thing. But then that is what the masses (think they ) want. And now we see lots of these going down the pan. Maybe the SCGB has stayed in a consolidation ( as you say true to its roots) rather than bubble expansion over the past decade and are now attacking on fronts to gain their status when others are reining it in .


ive just read through this ,... and if it makes no sense then please excuse me but ive just been out skiing a powder day and celebrating such,so suitably apres'd
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
PJSki, earlier today I asked a question with a rather inappropriate illustration (now deleted), which you understandably didn't answer. Here's a similar question, in a modified form, which I hope you can help with:

Does your surname begin with an A and end with an N? [Examples could include Atkinson, Anderson, Austin, Ashton, Admin, Addison, Allerton, Asprin etc.]


AnoN
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much

Carol Thatcher, ski and jungle enthusiast
limegreen1, that did come across as if your typing fingers were slightly inebriated. Perfectly understandable. Maybe work out what you're trying to communicate, in the morning?

Not quite clear how Margaret Thatcher comes into this, though her daughter loves sliding and got hitched up with a Swiss ski instructor. Don't know if Carol Thatcher ever joined the SCGB
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Comedy Goldsmith, Shocked I thought Ski Instructors had their pick of the Laydeeez . . . on that basis alone I really have to take another look at my career path. wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
PJ Ski Esq.

Dear Mr Ski

A couple of days ago I made what I thought to be a reasonable request that you give us a clue as to your true ID. It´s apparently bad form, in general, to undertake this sort of teasing exercise on a forum where anonymity is an option.

However ... for some 9 years now ... you have (either as Mr Ski or Mr Brown) personally attacked and/or misrepresented the views of members of this community ... apparently to prop up a concept of what the Ski Club of Great Britain is ... or could be. The irony is that we were all, back in early 2004, guests of this august institition.

It´s been said that you are closely - or perhaps intimately - associated with an influential figure in SCGB affairs (sic) ... whose first name begins with a G and ends with a Y. Examples could include Gary, Geoffrey, Godfrey or Gregory (surely not).

It must surely be obvious by now that you´re running out of piste. Please assist us in bringing matters to a harmonious resolution, in the spirit of openness and friendship.

Yours sincerely

David Comedy Goldsmith
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Tomorrow - 18 February - sees the eagerly anticipated verdict of a court in Albertville concerning the legality of ski hosting by tour operator Le Ski. Several other tour operators and the SCGB (concerning its 'leader' activities in France) are regarding this as an important test case. UK media have reported that the case concerns the ESF in Meribel suing Le Ski for 12,000 Euros for lost business because (they claim) clients choose to be led around the slopes as an inclusive service in the package holiday, rather than paying for the ski school. The ESF claims that unqualified hosts are unsafe.
Planetski is expecting the case to go against the British tomorrow ...

http://www.planetski.eu/news/4678

... and ...

Quote:
As we understand it at PlanetSKI The Ski Club met with senior figures from within the ESF in France last December and it hopes to continue with its activities in France. The Ski Club leaders are volunteers and the leading service is not done for financial renumeration. However the judgement of the court, and its reasons, will have to be read closely by The Ski Club of Great Britain before a final decision is taken.


If the SCGB met the ESF privately in December, then it would be significant to know whether this meeting preceded or followed the meeting attended by several tour operators and the SCGB ... reported by The Telegraph ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/skiing-news/9747534/French-declare-war-on-British-ski-hosts.html

Quote:
A meeting was held in London [in December] to try and resolve the issue, with representatives from some of the biggest tour operators – Inghams, Esprit Ski, Ski Total, Crystal, Zenith, Thomson, First Choice, Neilson, Ski Olympic, Erna Lowe, Skiworld and the Ski Club of Great Britain – sending representatives in support of Le Ski. But the meeting broke down without a solution.


-----------------------

My own view (not necessarily shared by the 'powers that be' at the SCGB) is that the Ski Club could happily continue without a rep/leader service if the whole shebang ultimately proves to be too problematic or costly. The leader service in Mayrhofen (Austria) recently stopped without explanation. A similar situation arose in St Anton many years ago. Two of the principal purposes of the service - recruitment of new members, and the operation of skier proficiency tests (bronze, silver and gold) - have either sharply declined or disappeared. The provision of unqualified leadership into off-piste terrain continues to be controversial and exposes the Club to risks and liability. As previously reported (quoting SCGB annual reports) ...

In 1992, the Club's resort operations cost £85,406, the reps/leaders skied with "approximately 15,000" skiers, and recruited 1108 new members (in 31 resorts)
In 2011, the Club's resort operations cost £263,451, the reps/leaders skied with 5,281 skiers, and recruited 229 new members (in 34 resorts)

Significantly, perhaps, no comparable data was published in 2012 ... but the Club is currently stating the highest membership in its history (34,000). Since the repping service is used by non-members (on trial days) as well as members, the service is clearly used by fewer than 15% of members in any year.

QED

----------------------

On a much more positive note, any club which gets its member networking, social media and publishing/information/online roles together will grow strongly (as we've seen with snowHeads). When members of a club are communicating vigorously, in their mutual interests and supporting each other, anything can be achieved.

This thread's specifically about the SCGB 'chat forum', so I'll do another spot audit of its traffic later today.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
SCGB forum activity over the past 3 days:

14 Feb: 2 posts by 2 posters (i.e. each contributed 50% of the total)
15 Feb: 18 posts by 10 posters (one poster contributing 28% of the total)
16 Feb: 7 posts by 6 posters (who contributed at least 16% each)

As of today, the rule forbidding "excessive posting" is still in place ...

Quote:
Excessive posting
Take care not to dominate the forum. Only post as frequently as others do. The limit for each member is 4% of the total post count within any 24 hour period. Exceed this limit and will be contacted in regards to your over usage.


... which outlaws all recent activity. This is peculiar, since SCGB director Gerry Aitken stated on 22 Jan ...

Quote:
... the 4% has put its coat on and will be leaving very shortly.


26 days later, nothing's changed. Also, no sign of the personal messaging facility promised to members in the Club's magazine. I guess if members have met but don't know each other's email addresses, that's a valuable idea, so it's strange that this hasn't happened.

All in all, with traffic on the SCGB forum running as slow as 2 posts per 24 hours - while snowHeads often runs at a rate of 2 posts per minute - the relaunched forum is an obvious debacle. There's a very confused situation regarding comments on the Club itself. This section of the forum is headed "... discuss any matters pertaining to the Ski Club. All comments are welcome" ... but the forum's terms and conditions clearly state that all comments are not welcome "If you have any complaint or criticism of the Ski Club, you should address it to the Ski Club itself (you can send an email to skiers@skiclub.co.uk)."

Sometimes I feel as if I should renew my SCGB membership as a pantomime horse, offer myself for slaughter, and exist in future as a Findus lasagne. [I see that one of the 'livelier' sections of the forum is headed "Horsemeat".]
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
Tomorrow - 18 February - sees the eagerly anticipated verdict of a court in Albertville concerning the legality of ski hosting by tour operator Le Ski.

Any news on this yet?
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
I see that has been answered here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=93360&start=856

Bad news!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Well, the SCGB leader service appears to be costing about £70 per member to provide (it's difficult to be precise, because a proportion of the 5000-odd skiers who ski with SCGB leaders each winter are non-members) ...

... so it's hugely costly and utterly uneconomic, in the sense that it only exists because it's paid for by the 85% of members who don't benefit. Since 'value for money' is the reason that people join or leave any club, the strategic thinking at this juncture should be obvious.

Incidentally, the SCGB's chief executive reported in the 2011 annual report that 12.3% fewer skiers had skied with SCGB leaders in the 2010-11 winter (5281, down from 5958). The number fell again last winter.

I can't imagine that these trends will matter in the slightest, though, and the SCGB Council will soldier on with the current policy. Tally ho!
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Comedy Goldsmith, any mutterings on the club site re. the Courts decision about hosting?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Masque, whatever you see on the SCGB forum is what I get ...

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/default.aspx#.USJsk_J7TTo

Forum sections with the 'Tower of London padlock' symbol are not accessible to me, as my member's log-in was neutralised in July 2007.

The SCGB leader service is, in one sense, a preservation society for the elite: expenses-paid skiers voting for expenses-paid skiing. Any attempt to introduce tiered membership pricing, based on whether one uses the leader service, has - of course - always been strangled at birth. Yet, this is the obvious way to really know if people genuinely value the service!

As previously argued, it's not an opera house or some other equivalent cultural gem.

I shall continue to pay my SCGB membership fee, in the expectation that the values of comradeship, mutual support, communications and publishing ... promoted by Sir Arnold Lunn and others ... will eventually prevail.

Quote:
Fat chance
some might argue.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Comedy Goldsmith, might I suggest you could now suspend your fortnightly traffic surveys - thanks for your input to date but it's now crystal clear that the SCGB forum has had virtually no increase in post frequency since they reopened it to non-members, publicised that here, and that the traffic is minimal and stable. They have yet to increase forum visibility on their home page (links are still one level down in drop down menus) and even some SCGB members have reported that they were unaware of it's existence. Gerry thinks putting a forum link on the main menu bar is a good idea, said he would pass it on (don't the web masters read their own forum? It's not as if there was too much to take in) but nothing's happened....

What I have however found out in my occasional visits and a trawl down memory lane is that the forum archive is currently incorrect - in that at least one resort report made under my own name is now attributed to 'a Ski Club Member' - which I never have been. I suspect that many non-member posts before MO day may have been deleted and/or anonymised like this. At least, I can't find any of mine in the 'general' bits of the archive. Any other non-member done a search? If wholesale purging of the archive has taken place, that's a bit naughty. A small amount of moderation of posts which led to MO Day is acceptable, but what I suspect has taken place is not. Whatever.... it would not be a surprise.

It's also clear that their forum software seems to be home-brewed which makes it difficult for them to introduce even agreed features, such as Private Messaging, which are commonly present in other widely available forum software packages.

Agreed changes to the Tamsins (the abolition of the 4% rule) have also yet to be implemented - how hard is it to edit text?

Summary - it's coughing up blood and in need of a great deal of TLC. I won't be nurse.
Cheers, Folks


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Tue 19-02-13 8:34; edited 2 times in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
HHHHmmm - I've found my very old posts in the SCGB archive which are definitely my words - but now seem to have been written by a G Villiers? My suspicions about SCGB archive tweaking are well founded. What a waste of time and effort. Maybe that's what they've been doing during all these years of partial closure? Other non-member posters are invited to find out their new SCGB names - the deed poll lawyers must have been busy. wink I know who Rosalind Landau really is - a sex change as well as name change.

I've posted my suspicions over there - let's see what response I get? Not holding my breath. Also reported one of the old posts as fraudulent and requested reinstatement of my posts. How long before they ban me as a stirrer?

BTW their search engine does seem to be working well. And it's fast. Credit for something.
The sH version is and always has been a bit clanky. We can't have everything.

Oh and apropos of respected organisations shutting forums, I understand Saga have suddenly shut-down theirs. It's catching. But they were of course a bit slow on the up-take. Gettin' on a bit.... wink
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Dubaian, thanks for raising that issue.

Since the SCGB has archives stretching back 110 years, any corruption or removal of them is a matter of concern.

You're right that usernames of the 2002-4 forum archive have been changed, without users' permission. The practice seems to have been widespread. Whether someone at the Club did this, or whether the forum was hacked, is open to question. It certainly needs investigating and - as you say - the original integrity of the archive needs to be restored.

Here's a thread, where I now appear as "Rosalind Landau". Other usernames, including that of 'u brain' are changed:

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/Skiing-general?discussionID=5184&page=1#.USNNufJ7TTo

Here's another thread - an important one in terms of how things have panned out - where a "David Burt" appears. Anyone recall the original username of "David Burt"?

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/Skiing-general?discussionID=6390&page=1#.USNO3fJ7TTo
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