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New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Priceless Smile
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@achilles, there's no link between that company and the snowHeads member with the same name.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
@achilles, there's no link between that company and the snowHeads member with the same name.

hoist with his own petard
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.

SCGB and BASI at opposites over ESF and France
ESF Val d'Isère and ESF Megève ... same ski school, two resorts, two national British ski organisations ... taking opposite sides in the ongoing disputes over British instructing and 'hosting'

The chairman of the Ski Club of Great Britain, Rob Crowder, explains the ongoing French prosecution of a club rep ... in the SCGB annual report (the club's AGM is tomorrow Thursday). In reproducing this quote in full, it's important to note that the SCGB is the self-styled "spokesbody of British skiers" and "voice of UK snowsports", according to its mission and communications statements ...

"... we have had a further threat to our Leading service in France, resulting in one of our Leaders being scheduled to appear in court in Albertville on 1st September 2014. At the eleventh hour the prosecution asked for a deferral and the case has been rescheduled for 8 December 2014 ... we will not know the outcome of this until 6-8 weeks after the hearing ... but we have been advised by our French Legal team to expect to lose the initial hearing and immediately lodge an appeal. the appeal will not be heard until at least 6 months after the initial hearing and the result of the appeal some 6-8 weeks later.

It will therefore be well after the end of the season before we have properly tested our case through the courts. For this reason your Council took the decision to temporarily suspend the Leading service in France, but to retain a presence and maintain our existing relationships through the provision of Ski Club Ambassadors in French resorts for the 2014-15 season. We will review the service after the outcome of the appeal is known. It is important to note that the case is against the individual leader and not the Club, although the Club is providing all administrative and financial support in defence of the Leader. It is also interesting to discover, which was only recently disclosed when we had sight of the prosecution papers, that M. Monnier, Head of ESF in Val d’Isère, is party to the prosecution and submitting a claim for an undisclosed sum in relation to loss of earnings. Consequently the Club has reviewed its relationship with ESF and will be using alternative providers, and encouraging members and partners to do likewise. Council are also seeking advice on lobbying the EC and relevant French Ministries to highlight what we consider being a groundless case, given that our Leaders are volunteers and wholly unremunerated."


BASI, on the other hand, are directly promoting the ESF and their relationship with it, partly in light of ESF Megeve's involvement in the prosecution of BASI member (currently expelled and appealing) Simon Butler. Last February, BASI co-published a statement of the French embassy which defended French restrictions on the employment and qualification of ski instructors and justifying the arrest/prosecution of Simon Butler ...

http://www.basi.org.uk/article/french-embassy-statement---27th-february-2014.aspx

The Tweet above right was posted by BASI on 16 October, during the ESF's promotional trailer of its involvement in the Telegraph Ski Show in London.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
"wholly unrenumerated"? Really? Either someone doesn't understand what renumeration is, or the SCGB isn't being entirely truthful. Accommodation, lift passes, and food and drink will all fall into renumeration.

Personally given the latest situation in Italy for the TOs I can see the club having to do the same. I guess that doesn't matter to most members, there will always be Switzerland.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Mistress Panda wrote:
"wholly unrenumerated"? Really? Either someone doesn't understand what renumeration is, ....


Presumably, it means renumbering something? wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Well ... Rob Crowder was bound to say that ...

"our Leaders are volunteers and wholly unremunerated"

... given that the SCGB Council are paying lawyers to take that tack, to insist that all those expenses are not 'benefits in kind'.

The problem is that this prosecution comes hard on the heels of serious problems the Club has had in Switzerland concerning a snowboarder who was killed when skiing with a SCGB rep in Verbier (the second death in that resort in comparable circumstances). This has involved action from a Swiss prosecutor which has continued for years (it may now be concluded, but I'm not sure).

The Ski Club of Great Britain wasn't founded for the benefit of lawyers, and could readily avoid all this litigation by doing what it was set up to do. Enabling skiers to associate ... for shared enjoyment of the sport and the publishing of internationally-notable journalism on the sport. That doesn't necessarily require 'reps', 'leaders', ambassadors ... or other figures who can attract liability problems and huge expenses.

The SCGB is so far along the 'gravy traintrack' - it is so much under control of those who benefit from all the expenses-paid skiing - that I very much doubt if its future is salvageable now. The latest annual report (2014) focuses on the continuing demographic problem - a distinctly ageing membership of diehards who continue to support this concentration of resources on high-risk activity ... and the love-in with the lawyers.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@achilles, @horgand, priceless indeed and also a load of rubbish. Much better to check your facts before posting to save getting egg on your face. Eg. Ski club and the Mae scam.

@rob@rar, Thanks for posting that. I guess when people have nothing worth saying to contribute to a discussion they look at making comments about someone to try and devalue what is being posted.

I see in the report Rob Crowder who I have skied with and is a nice guy, also named the ESF chief in Val d'Isere. At least that is out in the open now. I guess the rest of what he said is playing the party line. I wonder what some of them really think. As Mistress Panda said "wholly unrenumerated"? Really?. I am looking forward to hearing what the French say about this.

I do wonder about the BASI take on all this. I guess they are happy to see Leading and ski hosting stopped as they think it will mean more work for them. Not sure it will and I always thought SCGB and BASI got along. Do not want to put you on the spot Rob, but if you do know anything from the BASI side and feel you can share it. I think people would be interested to read what you have to say.

As for the 'Contract of Employment'. I wonder if we will ever hear from Gerry Atkin. I did invite him to post his reply to what I said. Toofy Grin Toofy Grin

Must go. Busy day. Shall have another look tonight. Happy chatting. Smile
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@snowcrazy, Rob would know better than me but personally I've never ever heard the subject of SCGB come up with BASI people I know as I suspect they see it as a deferent product and market although some do both so they are ambivalent about SCGB. BASI has plenty of its own issues to deal with so I really doubt if they are bothered about the SCGB one way or the other.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
achilles wrote:
Hmm. Snowcrazy Ltd I see on the business website. With the fantastic diligence you are taking towards the SCGB, I am sure your business will beyond spot, as exemplified by your web site Very Happy. Well, maybe not. I see no place of registration, or company registraion number. As you know I am sure, that is a requirement
Quote:
Changes to business stationery rules
As from 1st January 2007 the following applies
............,
On all of its business letters, order forms or any of the company’s web sites, the company must show in legible lettering –

its place of registration
registered number
its registered office address


Or have I missed where you have put them? I would have expected them here . Happy to have helped if you have just made an inadvertent omission. Madeye-Smiley

Of course, if you are not part of Snowcrazy Ltd, you might wish to change your sH name - I'm sure you wouldn't wish to be misleading. Toofy Grin


snowcrazy wrote:
... better to check your facts before posting to save getting egg on your face



achilles, I took what you wrote above at face value, obviously.

What do you deduce to be the truth?
If the truth is as stated by snowcrazy, why would he "wish to change your [his] sH name". You're surely compounding the issue if - as he claims - he has no connection with Snowcrazy Ltd. You're suggesting - by using the word "misleading" that he might be 'trading off' that tradename. Perhaps he's just chosen the same word and just wishes Snowcrazy didn't exist!

I'm only entering this discussion because you have a tendency to 'moralise on inconsequential and ridiculous matters, whipping them up into minor dramas' ... as I recently discovered ... again!

If you've failed to 'check facts' ... you'll need to say something. Or credibly dispute what snowcrazy is saying.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 19-11-14 14:07; edited 2 times in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
In terms of the SCGB giving some instruction on how to use transceivers, I cannot see how this can be used to bash them in my experience it is a rather small minority of ski instructors who teach people how to use them when handing them out, and a much smaller minority who hand out more than one shovel per group.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

Gerry Aitken Charm School [Autumn term]

Sorry about the slightly blurred repro on the right - it's as sharp as it will go.

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/discussion.aspx/The-Ski-Club?discussionID=14851&page=5#.VGyvhmfOoih

Anyone recognise the tone of voice in those postings? It should be familiar to those who recall the two identities that Gerry Aitken [SCGB director] has adopted over the 10 years of snowHeads - firstly the fake name "Tim Brown". Then "PJSki", as a more conventional pen-name, which didn't assume anyone else's identity.

In the early days (2004), Gerry Aitken called himself "Gerry" on snowHeads - nice and friendly and very familiar, since we knew him as "Gerry Aitken" on the SCGB forum from 2002-4. Things were much simpler in those days - he was, after all, a representative of the Ski Club of Great Britain, communicating in public (as on the right). Then he became a SCGB director, and perhaps saw the need to 'do social media' on a much more covert basis.

Eventually, as we know, everything fell apart on 18 August 2013 ... 'Karl Pilkington Day' or 'KP Day' ... the day when Gerry Aitken conclusively outed himself as "PJSki". See:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=94856&start=1680#2331995

Here's a suggestion for Gerry Aitken: reactivate your "Gerry" username on snowHeads - admin could help with the password, as necessary - and then we can get back to some sort of realistic open communication, rather than this ridiculous ping-pong between the SCGB forum (from which some members of this community are banned) and this forum.

In the meantime ... Gerry Christmas, and goodwill to all





Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 19-11-14 16:40; edited 2 times in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
"Don't listen to that guy. He was kicked out of the Leading service for breaking the rules."

[see 'quotations of Gerry Aitken' above right, 17 November at 18.60, edited at 22.04]

The deep irony of that statement is that it comes from a director of an organisation which has broken so many rules that my lever arch file has disintegrated under the strain.

More to follow.


--------------

[NB - 'the rules' hyperlink was beyond my control]


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 19-11-14 16:25; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Well isn't everyone a bit fractious today aren't they... Deep breaths now, snow is on the way.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
DG, surely you would be better off seeking formal redress (legal or otherwise) for the alleged injustice you feel you are the victim of rather than venting on here?

And i though you were busy and weren't coming back till later?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ansta1, it's kind of you, but anyone who knows me knows that I don't really do formal dress or formal redress.

I definitely don't 'do lawyers' in communicating with the Skeeb, because its own lawyers have to be paid for by the lovely people who pay subscriptions. Don't really do lawyers at all - last time was buying a home in 1989. But really, it's quite inappropriate for lawyers to be engaged either against or by clubs, by its members/ex-members. Very ungentlemanly.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes I am back. I see I have missed a few comments. Time to catch up.

@TTT, I agree with what you are saying. I also would be surprised if what is happening to SCGB Leaders or Ski Hosts really matters to BASI. I do not know many people that go with SCGB Leaders or Ski Hosts 'on piste' that would take lessons instead or pay an instructor to take them around the pistes. However I am sure there must be a few with enough money that do this sometimes.

On the other hand I DO think quite a few of the people that go 'off piste' with the SCGB Leaders would pay for an Instructor if they did not have this free option. Just what I have concluded having spoken to quite a few people whilst out skiing.

@Richard_Sideways, This is what happens when someone has nothing really to contribute and knows what is being stated is true so they find it difficult to have a logical debate with you. Instead they try and have a go at you so that everyone starts to take sides and divert the attention from the real issues. Very British, 'Divide and Rule!'

@T Bar, I think it depends who you go with and what you are doing. When we go out we always check everything as I have stated earlier. Most Instructors whether they are ESF, Evo 2 or New Gen in Les Arcs normally check everything when I have been with them. They certainly did with the youngsters. BUT I do agree checking the transceiver is only a small part of the whole issue. To my mind it is more about setting the right example by telling people, sorry you cannot come off piste today you do not have ALL the correct equipment. Not saying, oh wear this and you will be OK. Remember this is an Official Organisation and not just a bunch of mates who, according to the SCGB's own webpage, say they represent all British skiers! (or something like that!). I am sure there are many on snowheads and other forums that do not think they represent them. Maybe it is time SCGB change the wording of their statement. I think it was written about 100 years ago. Hey folks, times have changed!!Very Happy

However, I can see why the ESF complain when it is done right in front of them by unqualified leaders that give the impression they are professionals to those passing by, even if that is not what they intend. Best if they just stayed 'on piste', if that will still be allowed and avoid these issues.

@Comedy Goldsmith, As you have already suggested to achilles, about what he posted. Either show us all proof re. me running 'Snowcrazy Ltd' which ia based in La Rosiere or next time get your facts right before posting this sort of nonsense. As someone said, I have used this online name of 'snowcrazy' for many years. Certainly since before this company started using the name. Why should I change mine, all my friends know it. I use it on facebook as 'snowcrazy chris' and on loads of other places. Very Happy

@Comedy Goldsmith, and any one else that is reading the fiction that Gerry posted about me. I see that he now admits the name of the 'Contract' has been changed to 'Leading Contract' or 'Resort Leading Contract'. I was not telling lies then! They have changed the name, which is what I said I thought they might have done. I am not sure when they changed the title of the Contract, but I would guess it was done when they changed the name from 'Reps' to 'Leaders'. But at least as a full SCGB Council Member he has admitted there was/is a 'Formal Contract' with each Leader. Now I guess the SCGB will try and agrue, but this is not a 'contract of Employment'. Right. If you say so, but I think a French Judge might disagree.

As for the rest, I have invited Gerry on here using his 'real' name to discuss this in an open and gentlemanly way, pistols drawn at dawn! Until or if he ever does I shall just state, it is not true. I can prove what I am saying and left the Repping service due to 'Irreconcilable differences of opinion' and not because I broke any rules and was sacked. However there is still one upstanding issue which they have not resolved with me and until it is I am afraid I cannot kiss and make up. Toofy Grin


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 20-11-14 0:54; edited 3 times in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@achilles, no offence but as has been said, (a) Chris isn't associated with the snowcrazy company, but far more importantly, (b) their details are on the front page:
http://www.snowcrazy.co.uk/ at the bottom:


SnowCrazy Ltd. Registered in England No 05459013. Registered address: 55 Lancaster Drive, East Grinstead, West Sussex RH19 3XJ. Registered in France SIRET 50047943100024 TVA FR40500479431.

I'm sure they don't want bad publicity for no reason...
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
snowcrazy wrote:
I do wonder about the BASI take on all this. I guess they are happy to see Leading and ski hosting stopped as they think it will mean more work for them. Not sure it will and I always thought SCGB and BASI got along. Do not want to put you on the spot Rob, but if you do know anything from the BASI side and feel you can share it. I think people would be interested to read what you have to say.
I don't think there is a corporate view on the Ski Club situation, at least not one that I've heard of. The individual BASI instructors that I've heard comment on the situation have most expressed bemusement about the situation. I've not heard anyone say that the Club is stealing 'their' business, although that's a pretty small sample to base anything on.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum ... this thread ... hits 180,000 hits

It's a huge success story for the SCGB: This thread - which was started by SCGB employee 'Gotoma86' on 18 December 2012 - will achieve 180,000 hits today (with well over 3000 postings to the thread). It is one of very very few snowHeads threads to reach this popularity level, and has received takeover interest from none other than Rupert Murdoch. We say to Rupert - "Sod off and start your own thread, matey".

So it's a big "congratulations" to Gotoma86, who will maybe join a few dozen SCGB members at the SCGB's 2014 annual general meeting tonight (out of a membership claimed to exceed 29,000). More about that later.

Things you may not know about the figure 180,000:

- Sugary drinks are connected to 180,000 deaths each year". That claim was made by 'SugarKills.us'

- "Domino's charges pizza-lover £180,000 for a large margherita" That story is in the Independent.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 20-11-14 10:27; edited 2 times in total
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Arctic Roll, fair enough. I posted because I thought that the thread was becoming a bit tedious and could do with a jolt. I've amended the post, with an apology. Thanks for the heads-up.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

achilles wrote:
I thought that the thread was becoming a bit tedious


This has been selected, by a panel of judges, as snowHeads 'Quote of the Day'
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Questions to Gerry Aitken re. lawyers ...

... and your comments above right about someone I don't know, who you say "never did sue the club". But the Club certainly threatened to sue me - not only on one level, but two. Luckily we're well beyond the statute of limitation on that particular non-affair, so that fact can be revealed. Let's be clear about who actually does the suing around here. You'll recall, for example, the serial threats of SCGB legal action against snowHeads, a few years ago.

Gerry, tonight is the annual general meeting of the Ski Club of Great Britain, so I guess you'll be there ... as a SCGB director ... and I guess there will be plenty of talk tonight about the Club's legal situation in France and Italy, and what the lawyers are up to. The Club's resources are so focused and splashed (well over £200,000 per annum) on the repping service in the Alps (though it's been cut right back in the USA and Canada), and the Club seems to have given up in areas that are actually important and rooted in its founding and original goals - publishing of authoritative ski information to the public, social networking (i.e. enabling skiers to get together), social media, and other aspects of communicating/levelling with the general ski public in the 21st century. It's as if the SCGB has shrunk into a little self-protective cocoon of 'owners'/'controllers' ... a kind of freemasonry ... if not in actuality certainly in appearance. A kind of 'private gentlemen's club' that's gone a bit potty.

That's despite the 3 known deaths of skiers under SCGB leadership in the past 30-odd years, endless litigation and prosecutions, huge cost of repping, low-percentage take-up (c. 10% to 15%) each winter by members ... and so on. You'll be aware that repping was once overwhelmingly the most important means of recruiting new SCGB members (100+ per annum in Zermatt alone), and that SCGB reps once played a crucial role in testing the proficiency of British skiers - the weekly bronze, silver and gold tests were an excellent way of supporting local ski schools, with the Club's reps doing the weekly tests and handing out the medals/certificates. This winter, in contrast, the SCGB 'Ambassadors' in France will apparently do virtually nothing (in exchange for full expenses?).

Anyway, back to the lawyers:

Gerry,

1. Did you encourage the SCGB to make legal threats against snowHeads about using the phrase "ski club" in its description?

2. Did you encourage the SCGB to make legal threats against yours truly?
Connected point: it's believed that you are "Pippin" on Winterhighland, who said on 23 June 2013 "I've noted David Goldsmith's libellous comment* at the top of this page and I will be reporting it to the SCGB tomorrow."
[* NB It wasn't a libellous comment]
http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,148384,page=14

3. How much money (OK, I appreciate this is a bit unfair) do you think the SCGB should spend on lawyers to defend its situation in France ... and/or Italy?

4. What's your general view of the legal profession and the law?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@achilles, love and hugs. Nice and accurate use of the word tedious though!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Inappropriate use of the word bit though Happy
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Tonight's Ski Club of GB AGM ... 7pm, SCGB 'White House', Wimbledon

I won't be in the meeting tonight (having been expelled in September 2013) but here's a question that ought to be asked of the Club's board of directors (Council)

Where are the yearly accounts of the SCGB Environmental Fund?
This charitable project comprises the 'Respect the Mountain' campaign (financed partly by a 50p/annum levy on SCGB annual subscriptions, plus merchandise sales) and the "long-term tree-planting" project (set up with The Woodland Trust), over which there is considerable mystery.

The Independent newspaper commented very positively on this initiative on 3 November 2007 (the scheme commenced ten years ago in 2004-5) ...

"Ski Club of Great Britain: Ace of clubs"
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/skiing/ski-club-of-great-britain-ace-of-clubs-398722.html
The quote on the right is from that article

Here's the amount the SCGB is currently accounting for - £34,354.22 - but the money accrues at a rate of £8000 to £9000 per annum, based on the Club's claimed subscriber numbers of around 16,500 households.

c.£100,000 raised

Over ten years the Club has therefore raised £80,000 to £90,000 from the 50p levies alone. In addition there have been merchandise sales. These kicked off with the manufacture of 35,000 green wristbands, sold at £2 each, plus t-shirts and hoodies etc, ashtrays and other items. The total fund is presumably around £100,000 (it appears that not much merch was sold after the first couple of years).

The SCGB Environmental Working Group, established to advise its Council on the distribution of the funds, advised that approximately half the fund should go to The Woodland Trust - a distinguished national tree-planting charity - to finance a "long-term tree-planting project". As The Independent pointed out two years later (above) this was the focus. However (see below) the Club says it has only ever paid £9000 to The Woodland Trust.

Here is the SCGB's current account of the money raised and its distribution ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/respectthemountain/environment/skiclub.aspx#.VG3vi2fOoig

Quote:
INCOME
£6,816.22 was raised from the sale of Respect the Mountain wristbands
£27,538 was raised from the Club's membership environmental levy of 50p per subscription


Quote:
DONATIONS
- Woodland Trust tree planting scheme - £7500 donation to plant 600 indigenous forest trees in Britain. A further £1500 donated this year.
- Research project by James Lewis, entitled "Sustainable Alpine Tourism: the British Ski Industry's Role in Developing Sustainability in the French Alps" - £4250 download the full report as a pdf
- Eco-boxes through Summit foundation in Verbier, Switzerland - £816.22
- Makesnowsportsgreener campaign and snowsports sustainability and resort makeover - £4000
- "The Big Spring Clean" - Scottish resort clean up day. This year's cost was £2600
- The Eco-guide to Mountain Gear - £1788
- Ski Club Leaders Train Travel subsidy of £100 each to encourage travel by train has been popular. 23 Leaders took it up this year. Cost £2300.
- Freshtracks is including train travel options to Les Arcs for members in this year's holiday programme. The EWG is allocating £1600 to help keep the travel costs comparable with plane travel.
- Disposable ashtrays have been handed out in resorts by Club Leaders - £1500
- The Chamonix Lac Blanc Refuge hydroelectric project has been approved in principle. This project is to replace an aging and polluting diesel generator. Cost £7500.
- The historic Britannia Hut near Saas Fee was built many years ago with the help of the Club. Solar panels have been installed to help save fuel, water supplies and environmentally intrusive heli lifts - £3000
- Researchers at Bristol University are looking into the role of micro-organisms in snow, and how snow longevity and possibly snowfall is affected. The Club has given a grant of £4000.
- We have commissioned snowcarbon to provide the Club with ongoing information on 'green travel'. This will be included in the Green Travel section and help members to plan journeys by rail. Cost £850
- Contribution of £4000 towards the University of Bristol's research into the biogeochemistry of snow in the Alps and the potential impacts on the snowsports industry and ski resorts.


Finally, this is what the Ski Club of Great Britain claims ...

"The Ski Club's Respect the Mountain campaign has gone from strength to strength over the years and is now one of the ski industry's biggest environmental and safety initiatives."

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/respectthemountain/default.aspx#.VG3372fOoig

So ... where is all that money, exactly?




Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 20-11-14 15:30; edited 3 times in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Arctic Roll, thanks. It was a late night post I really should not have made. The apology to all is genuine.
Claude B, I couldn't possibly comment wink
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@achilles, you've done exactly the right and proper thing. It's a shame others in this community don't always 'man up' in similar ways.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Well I never. I had no idea that the Britannia hut was built with the help of the SCGB. I've stayed there a long time ago doing some of the 4000m peaks surrounding it and my abiding memory is of the guardian playing very loud music at some ungodly hour to encourage those with an "alpine start". I wonder if that still goes on
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Deleted without trace ...

The posting of Gerry Aitken - panel above right - dated 17 Nov 18:06 and edited 22:04 - has disappeared from the SCGB forum. It remains on the record here.

This kind of reckless personal attack has been typed off Gerry Aitken's keyboard countless times over the past decade. On this forum the personal abuse and smears have come from "Tim Brown" and "PJSki" - two usernames very strongly believed to be used by this SCGB director. He was spoken to ten years (or more) ago by senior SCGB people about his conduct.

One wonders what is going on with this organisation. Whose interests does Gerry Aitken serve? A couple of years ago he sought to differentiate himself from other SCGB reps by saying that he did not claim expenses - a very ambiguous thing to say, since the expenses (travel, accommodation, liftpasses etc. etc.) are presumably paid automatically (nice). Aitken chaired the SCGB's 'New Media Task Group' at a time when massive investment - £100,000 per annum - was made in the Club's website. To what ends? And, in that capacity, he promised a peerless news service from the Ski Club. All the SCGB seems to pump out in terms of ski news (I search for it daily) is advertorial for commercial interests who presumably pay the SCGB for this 'guff and puff dissemination'.

This gets very controversial when the 'news stories' come up in Google searches. Google has a strict idea of what news comprises, and is trusted for it!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Recent SCGB 'news stories'

These come up via Google searching. Google does not permit advertising masquerading as editorial. So ... how does the Ski Club of Great Britain square its carry-on with that obvious requirement ... not to mention its founding and significant role in ski journalism, from 1905 onwards?

"Buyers return to the pistes"
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9296#.VG4xEWfOoig

"Ski it your way - in Norway!"
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9280#.VG4x0WfOoig

"Win a Voombox Travel!"
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/competitions/competitioninfo.aspx?competitionID=434#.VG4ycmfOoig

"Great gear at great prices from Ski Republic"
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9291#.VG4yoGfOoig

Do we need to dig Sir Arnold Lunn out of his grave to sort this out?
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dipping into this tread I'm surprised that certain Snowheads aren't berating the French prosecutor for the 20th Dec hearing about SCGB changing their forum to members only all those years ago rolling eyes
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Diagrams from the 2014 SCGB annual report
The SCGB AGM is now one hour in progress.

I wonder if anyone's asked about the dodgy membership figures?

For the third year, the number of 'paying units' - declared each year until 2012 - has been omitted from the report.

Instead, a 'gross' membership number is declared ... and it's mathematically impossible, based on the SCGB's own definition of two members per family subscription.
See: https://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/join/default.aspx#.VG5KD2fOoig

All the figures shown here for family numbers are impossible, on that basis. If it's two members per family (presumably to limit ownership and voting control of the club), then only two membership cards and two membership numbers are granted per family.

So ... what are these figures, exactly?

The current gross membership of the SCGB - if a recently declared 'number of households' (16,500) is accepted as fact - would be around 23,000.

SCGB 2014 annual report:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/assets/files/documents/annualreport_2014_final.pdf
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@achilles I read above that you said you had posted an apology. @achilles, Where is your apology to me. You did not bother to check you facts before posting and trying to make out that I was doing something under hand. I wait in hope that you are an honourable man and also now apologise to me.

I have also noted as mentioned above that a certain person has now admitted 'contracts' for Leaders do exist and that the name most recently is Leader's Contract. As one poster over on the other thread has said. The actual title of the contract is not that important. A 'contract' is a 'contract'. It is the fact that a contract does exist and the contents of the contract that really matters. So that I do not get accused of being misleading again. I shall wait until I have looked up the details of the contract before posting rather recalling on memory and risk putting something even slightly incorrect.

Maybe one of the current Leaders would be willing to give the details of their contracts for this winter. That would be very helpful.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Meanwhile ... with only 9 booking days to December ...
... when is the Ski Club Leaders' Course?


"TBC" is the official word ... on this page ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiclubleaders/becomeaskiclubleader/skiclubleaderscourse.aspx#.VG7Et2fOoig

... and December 2014 is tagged as a "provisional" date. Is the course taking place?

All SCGB 'Leading' in French resorts has been cancelled this winter, due to the ongoing prosecution of a Ski Club 'Leader'. All Leaders will be non-leading 'Ambassadors'.
Tignes is, of course, part of the Espace Killy which includes Val d'Isere ... where the local ESF is engaged in that very prosecution.

Something tells me this all makes perfect sense, but I'm not quite sure what it is.
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
... and December 2014 is tagged as a "provisional" date. Is the course taking place?


I believe the course starts next weekend in Tignes.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
On the rocks wrote:
Dipping into this tread I'm surprised that certain Snowheads aren't berating the French prosecutor for the 20th Dec hearing about SCGB changing their forum to members only all those years ago rolling eyes


It wasn't the French prosecutor wot dun it, it was those pesky ESF people. (Just waiting for the thread on here proclaiming ESF to have allied itself with ISIS).
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Who runs the Ski Club of Great Britain?

Three companies - Ski Club of Great Britain Ltd, Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd and Ski Club Services Ltd - operate the Club, though the latter is listed as "dormant" by Companies House.

A scan through Companies House records ... going back to 2008 ... shows all appointments named since then (previous records are un-named, as is normal on a basic 'web check').
Firstly, these are all 22 directors of Ski Club of Great Britain Limited appointed since May 2008, with termination dates as appropriate. Where one date is shown, this director is believed to be currently serving the board ...

SKI CLUB OF GREAT BRITAIN LTD - DIRECTORS

John Francis Haddon [appointed 21.5.2008, terminated 17.12.2010]
William Raine Bell [1.2.2009, 29.11.2011]
Martin Ashley [1.2.2009, 3.8.2012]
Sheila Elizabeth Hope St Maur [1.2.2009, 6.12.2012]
Steven Jeffrey Brabbs [1.2.2009, 21.11.2013]
Sally Robson [1.2.2009, 6.12.2012]
Alexandre Jay Parr [11.2.2009, 17.12.2010]
James Pitman Hyde Harrison [13.1.2010, 14.11.2011]
Christopher David Glynne [13.1.2010]
Paul Victor Whitehead [17.1.2011]
Richard Fairfax Bird [17.1.2011]
Harriet Julia Bradley [17.1.2011, 14.11.2011, "clarification 18.1.2012"]
William Kenneth Robert Crowder [14.8.2012]
Frank McCusker [14.8.2012, 3.9.2012]
Alan Lyons [30.10.2012]
Gerald Aitken [30.10.2012]
Mark Borland [14.3.2013]
Patrick Graeme Usborne [14.3.2013]
Malcolm Kenneth Sharp Bentley [14.3.2013]
Tim James Whelan [21.11.2013]
Ian Holt [10.1.2014]
Kim Moss [10.1.2014]

As of last night's AGM, two new directors were due to be elected ... of these three candidates: Bob West, David Wilkey, Chris Radford.
Can anyone confirm who was elected?

I'll amend this posting to include directorships of the other two SCGB companies. ...


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 4-02-15 9:12; edited 4 times in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The two other companies operating the Ski Club of Great Britain ...

SKI CLUB SERVICES LTD - DIRECTORS
This company is specified "dormant" by Companies House

Timothy Whelan [14.8.2012]
William Kenneth Robert Crowder [6.12.2012]
Francis Conn McCusker [27.1.2014]

SKI CLUB WINTER ARRANGEMENTS LTD - DIRECTORS
This company is believed to handle income and expenditure of the SCGB's holiday operation 'Freshtracks'

Caroline Anne Stuart-Taylor [Co. Secretary] [appointed 3.2.2009, terminated 18.6.2012]
Steven Jeffrey Brabbs [16.9.2009, 16.9.2009]
Steven Brabbs [16.9.2009, 27.1.2014]
Timothy Whelan [Co. Secretary] [14.8.2012]
William Kenneth Robert Crowder [6.12.2012]
Francis Conn McCusker [11.10.2013]
Malcolm Kenneth Sharp Bentley [27.1.2014]
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads

In summary (with additional officers) ...

Who runs the Ski Club of Great Britain?

This information takes into account the retirement of Paul Whitehead and Richard Bird at last night's AGM
This list comprises all elected Council members, the Patron and President, and two additional directors on the Executive

On the right is the information contained in the SCGB 2014 annual report. Chris Glynne's retirement as a director of the Club has not been recorded by Companies House, according to my check this a.m.

PATRON

Prince Edward, Duke of Kent KG GCMG GCVO ADC(P)

PRESIDENT

Frank Gardner, OBE, FRGS [BBC Security Correspondent]

CHAIRMAN

Rob Crowder

TREASURER

Malcolm Bentley

COUNCIL


Alan Lyons
Gerry Aitken
Mark Borland
Patrick Usborne
Ian Holt
Kim Moss

Additionally, two of the following, elected last night: Bob West, David Wilkey, Chris Radford

CHIEF EXECUTIVE

Frank McCusker (director, Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd)

HEAD OF COMMERCIAL SERVICES

Tim Whelan (director+secretary, Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd, director+secretary, SCGB Ltd)
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