 Poster: A snowHead
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x7, Interesting. Did the snowHeads pre-season bash co-incide with that rep's course and is that the group of 100 you are talking about?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, I was just looking up the thread - had to be, didnt it?  Cant see any posts re. SCGB though?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shimmy Alcott, could be the services as well, I know they have large groups out there at various times. Or university groups.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bode Swiller, true.
x7's location is "Behind u" though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Shimmy Alcott, ah, silly me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller, Shimmy Alcott, Shiley not, he would drive an X5, no?
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I've met the older guy in the video with the BBRs - apart from that he was a really nice bloke 
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| x7 wrote: |
Yes the course took place in 2012.
We had to put up with their general rudeness and oneupmanship all week.
In their braying enthusiasm to get the most fresh snow, they made a right nuisance of themselves: cutting people up, stealing lines and even crashing into folk. The resort was very quiet that week so, as our group numbered over 100, if they were rude to anyone, it was, as often as not, one of us. I heard so many stories that I lost count.
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If it was the Leaders' Course they all would have been wearing blue jackets. If it was the Premier Party a few but not all would have been wearing blue jackets. Premier party based in Val-d'Isere, Leaders Course based in Tigne, Snowheads Pre Season Bash based in Tigne all at the same time; take your pick 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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more commonly known as a
FIGHT!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Cavaliers vs snowHeads 1642
Very amusing, but what we really don't need at this juncture is a re-enactment of the Civil War.
I'm a great believer in non-violent resolution of snowfield disputes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Okay if fighting is out how about
Zip past and pull their avi bag rip cords
Adjust their bindings when they stop for a break
sneakily amend their piste maps and mark the runs in a different colour or annotate the runs they should or shouldn't do, or even substitute the map for a completely different mountain and see if they notice.
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Are we allowed to taunt them and call them plebs ?
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You know it makes sense.
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It should be like the Christmas Truce in the WW1 trenches perhaps
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How is the SCGB doing, in financial and membership terms?
Each autumn the Ski Club of Great Britain publishes an annual report, setting out the revenues, costs and performance data across its range of services. Over the years there’s been a reasonable consistency in what’s reported, though last year saw significant figures omitted from the 2012 report ...
In anticipation of the 2013 SCGB Annual Report, due out in the next few weeks, here’s a summary of some of the most important data over the past 4 years. Once the 2013 figures are out, this table can be updated to give a 5-year picture:
MEMBERSHIP (paying units)
2009: 18,084
2010: 17,893
2011: 17,114
2012: Not declared
NET PROFIT+/LOSS- AFTER TAX £
2009: +8,980
2010: +121,130
2011: -20,037
2012: -100,015
SKI CLUB FRESHTRACKS PROFIT £
2009: 50,657
2010: 101,367
2011: 93,790
2012: 101,271
NET COSTS OF SKI+BOARD MAGAZINE £
2009: 81,622
2010: 52,248
2011: 64,203
2012: Not declared
INFORMATION AND NEW MEDIA COSTS £
2009: 260,343
2010: 260,227
2011: 249,726
2012: 227,678
RESORT OPERATIONS COSTS £
2009: 271,498
2010: 220,801
2011: 263,451
2012: 230,043
MARKETING AND CLUB EVENTS COSTS £
2009: 215,858
2010: 242,510
2011: 257,938
2012: 223,563
ADMINISTRATION, MEMBERSHIP, IT & STRATEGIC EXPENDITURE COSTS £
2009: 589,165
2010: 604,319
2011: 728,817
2012: 789,532
Overall total costs of running the SCGB have been £2.0 million to £2.2 million annually, over the past 4 years.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Since new media (skiclub.co.uk) and print media (Ski+Board magazine) are arguably the most important functions of the SCGB - because these are the only activities (aside from discounts) that benefit the majority of members - it's strange that these are the hardest things to analyse financially from the Club's annual reports. The Club regularly changes the bracketing of different income sources, rather than keeping a regular split and consistent definition.
"Advertising and sponsorship" revenues are lumped together across the Club's activities - and would thus include magazine advertising, website advertising, Land Rover sponsorship etc etc). A figure is given for "Ski+Board subscriptions and newsstand sales". Here are some historical trends ... from a longer term perspective ...
SKI + BOARD SUBSCRIPTIONS AND NEWSSTAND SALES INCOME £
1992: 29,021
2002: 17,351
2005: 8,517
2008: 16,473
2011: 2,686
2012: Not declared
ADVERTISING AND SPONSORSHIP INCOME £
2002: 232,702
2005: 327,386
2008: 526,275
2011: 485,613
2012: 452,070
INFORMATION AND NEW MEDIA INCOME £
2002: 89,867
2005: 94,074
2008: 113,256
2011: 92,284
2012: 69,953
[Sources of data above: 1993, 2005, 2008, 2011 and 2012 SCGB annual reports]
Clearly, there's been a huge decline in magazine copy sales (which ran at 12,000+ in the early 1990s). Income from subscriptions and newsstand sales was - in 2011 - less than 10% of what it was in 1992, even bearing in mind that the cover price of the magazine multiplied in that period.
The decline in information and new media income between 2008 to 2012 is also very striking. It'll be interesting to see whether these trends have been reversed in the 2012-3 financial year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A job opportunity at the White House (HQ of the SCGB) has just come up: Partnerships Manager. The job description is the best 'buzz-phrase rush' I've read recently ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=8980#.UkV5O39q3Ih
... includes ... ... commercial agenda ... driving, developing and implementing ... strategic and tactical partnerships ... multiple stakeholders ... partnership marketing ... sponsorship environment ... media platforms ... commercially challenging environment ... key commercial stakeholders ... contra-marketing activity ... targeted stakeholders ... relevant stakeholders ... commercial partnership platform ... SCGB brand ... proactively seek ... perceived value ... higher engagement ... deliver value ... SCGB awareness ... affiliate partner relationships ... partnership campaign fulfilment ... partnership marketing sector ... marketing partnership campaigns ... media channels ... key drivers ... shape solutions ... build advocacy ... drive member loyalty ... snowsports sector ... marketing partnerships function
[That's enough proactive buzz-phrase drivers. Ed]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In response to the above, this thread New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum is now seeking a Strategic Click Promoter and Traffic Driving Executive.
Directly responsible to the Vice President of Threads you will be a self-starting tactician, operating across a network of commercial traffic platforms. This is an opportunity to shape the future of a multi-page engagement thread in a challenging media environment.
If you believe that you have skillset and proaction awareness we need, please apply to admin. Closing date 5 October.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes indeed. Thanks, geoffers.
Could I please stress that applicants for the positions above should be pre-existing members of the Ski Club of Gripping Buzzwords [SCGB] and Royal Society for the Promotion of Bullshit [RSPB]
Before your job interview, grab the opportunity to brush up technique with Robie the Robot's Buzzword Generator ...
http://www.robietherobot.com/buzzword.htm
| Quote: |
orchestrate global metrics
drive holistic architectures
brand compelling initiatives
morph efficient niches
reinvent synergistic portals
enhance bricks-and-clicks initiatives
reinvent open-source functionalities
etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Comedy Goldsmith, thank you, my daughter is working on a project at school and needs to design a recruitment leaflet, I reckon those words will be a great starting point
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
Yes indeed. Thanks, geoffers.
Could I please stress that applicants for the positions above should be pre-existing members of the Ski Club of Gripping Buzzwords [SCGB] and Royal Society for the Promotion of Bullshit [RSPB]
Before your job interview, grab the opportunity to brush up technique with Robie the Robot's Buzzword Generator ...
http://www.robietherobot.com/buzzword.htm
| Quote: |
orchestrate global metrics
drive holistic architectures
brand compelling initiatives
morph efficient niches
reinvent synergistic portals
enhance bricks-and-clicks initiatives
reinvent open-source functionalities
etc.
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CG I think I sat through that meeting yesterday.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The new £23 SCGB membership
When seeing this £23 offer last Friday for the first time I couldn't believe my eyes. A year ago, the Ski Club could not have been clearer about its revised marketing strategy under a new Executive - there would be no more half-price memberships - no more undercutting of the rate paid by loyal members. All efforts would go into resourcing the SCGB to provide best possible value to existing members (who pay £62/£67 for an individual membership). The focus was to be full membership satisfaction, measured by the degree to which existing members recommend the Club to friends.
Of course, it should have been obvious - I was being stupid. This is no half-price membership - the rate is discounted 62%!
So ... what is a beginner ... and what is offered for £23? All is explained here ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/join/default.aspx#.UkmN8H9q3Ig
and here ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/infoandadvice/article.aspx?articleID=198#.UkmOmX9q3Ig
| Quote: |
| At the Ski Club we’re passionate about helping people of all ages to get involved in snowsports. So we’ve introduced a new membership level aimed exclusively at first-time skiers and snowboarders. |
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| This membership is available to beginner skiers or snowboarders joining the Ski Club for the first time |
The 'join' page is less precise ...
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| As beginner membership aims to get you into snowsports, if you've had a Ski Club membership before you will not be eligible for this tier. |
This suggests that the Club is not going to check if the applicant is a first-time skier - how could it? - but will obviously know if this is a first-time application for membership.
Fair enough. A very very cheap deal - the last time the SCGB charged £23 per annum was 1987.
What does the rate include? According to the 'join' page, the package is identical to that which regular £62 members pay - all the same services. No services are excluded - in fact, beginners might put more demand on the Club's HQ for information provision, since novices have so many questions. So ... how is the £23 rate possible?
The SCGB is a non-profit organisation, and therefore the cost of £62 membership is the cost of providing it. A £23 rate would be hugely subsidised by existing members. If 1000 members join at £23 each, that's about £39,000 not met by the revenue gained ... unless the following argument is made ...
"But the marginal cost of increasing numbers by 1000 will not be the same as servicing 1000 existing members" ... might be argued.
So that comes down to whether a non-profit member-owned organisation can legitimately recruit new members on a marginal cost argument. And is it correct to cede co-control of the Club (one subscriber one vote) to new members who've paid little more than a third of the rate paid by long-term members?
What happens at the end of the £23 year? Are the beginners then asked to pay £62? What's the prospect of them being happy with a hike of 169%?
Have I got something wrong? There's long been a case for changing the way SCGB membership is priced to make it more popular, essentially to create two-tier pricing. Two-tier pricing according to whether you'll use the most expensively-costed service - the leaders (reps). It costs around £80 per member to provide the on-snow leadership in resorts, but only about 15% of members use the service.
Given all that ... what is a £23 membership ... boldly undercutting the regular rate so indiscreetly ... all about?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 1-10-13 8:16; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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P.S. The annual subscription rate for SCGB members has been hiked 7 times in the past 10 years, on a cost argument ... which accentuates the question as to how it can now be discounted 62% to newbies.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Comedy Goldsmith, Could not the same argument be applied to the children's reduced sub? And to the family sub?
It may be a non-profit organisation but it still needs to increase its membership. Many commercial organisations offer initial incentives to recruit new customers. I suspect (but haven't checked) that the reduced sub is only available if you sign a direct debit. Human inertia will mean that some (most?) will be too lazy to cancel the DD and the club then has a full paying member going forward.
I see nothing wrong in the marginal cost argument that you dismiss. It would be fairly easy to quantify the marginal cost of each member (mailing, magazine, can't think of any others immediately) but I feel sure it is less than £23. The biggest cost service cost is the leaders/reps, as you point out, but that is a fixed cost.
Higher membership increases the potential reach of advertising material, making the club more attractive to advertisers.
As regards 'ceding control' if that was an issue for most members they would use their vote. I wonder how many exercise their democratic right? 5%? My guess would be less, but you will no doubt have the stats to hand.
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| Quote: |
Many commercial organisations offer initial incentives to recruit new customers.
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I think this is DG's point. It's not a commercial organisation growing its customer base to feather the pockets of its shareholders. It's supposed to be a not for profit club that serves all of its members interests equally.
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You know it makes sense.
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Chris Mason andmusher, thanks for taking the trouble to read that post which was as short as I could make it.
Yes, musher expresses the essential point. A genuine members' club has to stay true to the interests of all its members but the SCGB now is providing an identical set of services to new members at about a third of the rate charged to those who've been faced with persistent subscription increases. It's far removed from the principle on which subscriptions were originally charged.
In 1985, new members paid the regular £22 subscription ... plus a £10 joining fee.
I could see a scenario now where 1000 SCGB members quit the club. denying it £62,000 in subscriptions ... 'replaced' by 1000 beginners (including maybe non-beginners who could obviously get away with the beginners' rate) paying £23,000 in subscriptions.
Where would that leave the 'marginal costs' argument?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Another CG storm in a teacup. The "Beginner" would not be able to benefit from the most tangible benefits of being in the SCGB, ie they would not be allowed to ski with Leaders (or more likely for solo skiers to use the Leaders as a focal point to hook up with other solo skiers) or to go on Freshtracks holidays. Beginners are specifically excluded from both. I don't see why any beginners would want to join the SCGB at any price.
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Poster: A snowHead
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surely its just a private members club funded by "other members" who join for the kudos and some possible fringe benefits to which the "real" members know is all a smokscreen for their "free" guiding.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| According to the 'join' page, the package is identical to that which regular £62 members pay - all the same services. No services are excluded |
| On the rocks wrote: |
| The "Beginner" would not be able to benefit from the most tangible benefits of being in the SCGB, ie they would not be allowed to ski with Leaders (or more likely for solo skiers to use the Leaders as a focal point to hook up with other solo skiers) or to go on Freshtracks holidays. |
Well, which is right? The "beginner" could be quite competent by the end of his subscription. (Or even at the beginning, if he's telling porkies.)
Not that I care (yawn).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| Another CG storm in a tea club |
FIFY
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As far as I could see never having been a member, the only thing that might make me try the Tea Club is nominal lead in pricing so I could sample the jolly boys guiding service ( and obsess over whether I was lilac or maroon grading) so the "beginner" membership sort of achieves this. I assume "beginner" is interpreted as anyone who has never enjoyed SCGB clubbiness as without it surely the snowsports experience is mundane and dangerously ungraded? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On the rocks: "Another CG storm in a teacup"
Bode Swiller: "Another CG storm in a tea club"
It's more a story than a storm. A story that began on 6 May 1903 and has continued for 110 years, so the story development is now at quite an advanced chapter. The teacup now accommodates (a claimed) 30,000+ people, so it's a large item of crockery.
fatbob, your point is essentially correct. There's nothing (as far as I can see) preventing you from enrolling in the SCGB at the £23 rate. I don't suppose the electronic application requires you to state that you are an aspirant snowplougher and side-stepper. There's a kind of expectation that you won't abuse the 'beginner' definition, but the light-hearted L-plate on the page could imply anyone who hasn't passed their UK skiing licence [and every skier I know falls into that category].
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SCGB v snowHeads
It's been a few weeks since we last looked at the relative positions of skiclub.co.uk and snowheads.com . snowHe ads' current global ranking is roughly where it was on April 22, given the summer dip and autumn revival. The SCGB ranking is climbing, but at a much slower rate. On April 22 the SCGB had a global ranking of 124,409, but has slumped to 195,055.
The graph of relative 'global ranking' was generated today by http://www.alexa.com
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As for snocial media, the other 'New Ski Club of Great Britain chat forum' ... i.e. the one on skiclub.co.uk ... is getting a couple of postings per day (compared to hundreds every day from 2002-4) ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/default.aspx#.UlVJCVNq3Ih
Today's highlights (the only lights, in fact) are "Arriving Val d'Isere early on a Saturday - left luggage?" ... "Long term car parking in Zermatt" ... and "Ski Club Council nominations - I need your vote" ...
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/snowtalk/forum.aspx/The-Ski-Club#.UlVJS1Nq3Ih
On the latter topic here are some comments from Mark Borland, candidate for the SCGB's ruling Council. The AGM is on 21 November, when the votes will be counted.
"The Club faces many challenges, from increasing membership, appealing to a broader range of people and evolving its image. I’d like to use my experience and skills to help the Club tackle these challenges ..."
Mark is committed to "... evolve the unique ‘Ski Club’ experience and ensure it is enjoyed by more."
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The SCGB's Ski+Board magazine (October issues) is now online ... free of charge ... [edit/correction: free access to members]
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiandboard/magazine.aspx/October-2013#.UlZwjFNU2IA
Not clear how this assists the magazine's newsstand sales (or SCGB revenues) which are now down to an average 737 copies (ABC audit Jan-Dec 2012). The SCGB magazine (then called Ski Survey) achieved sales of over 12,000 copies per issue in the late 1980s/early 1990.
Current ABC certificate: http://www.abc.org.uk/Products-Services/Product-Page/?tid=9546
If the magazine is free (according to the ABC certificate, 4180 copies of each issue were given away last year) ... what's the point of being a member and paying a £62/£67 subscription?
Maybe someone with a better understanding of business than me can explain the logic here ... ?
Last edited by After all it is free on Thu 10-10-13 11:22; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nope, that link takes you to a membership sign-up page. You are obviously logged in as a member so you can see the mag.
An average of 737 news stand sales! No point doing that is there?
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Swiller, thanks for that. Have corrected the posting above accordingly
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FAQ
