 Poster: A snowHead
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| Megamum wrote: |
Shimmy Alcott, only what has been put above,
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1. The Ski Club of Great Britain was founded by people who made a huge intellectual contribution to the sport, nationally and internationally, and had a wholly inclusive approach to membership (though commercially-interested members were initially excluded). They had no prejudices about Scottish skiing. They published highly influential factual information. What I see now is a disgrace to these founding fathers (and their founding/enduring principles/values).
12. Inside the White House is a team of mainly young people, early in their careers, being tasked to do the most absurd things. That's not good for them, professionally. It confounds the ethos of the two famous non-profit organisations I work for in London (both of which have highly innovative and creative strategies and build real careers for people). The Ski Closed Group Britain (SCGB) is now a cruise ship of people on expenses-paid skiing, offering gravy-training in how to maintain the gravy train. I will concede that 10% of the membership derive great value from the repping service, but it's cross-subsidised by the 90% who don't use it.
Of course, the latest membership figures will be ascertained in a few weeks (year end: 30 April). I'm going to recommend (PJ Ski was asking for great ideas) that the Club's auditors verify the figure this year, with the numbers who have joined for free or on a discount basis. The omission of the membership figure from the 2012 annual report was a very bad sign (unprecedented?) and various different 'grossed-up' figures have been bandied about since then, which don't make sense
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He suggests that there are also other reasons. Clearly he believes in his understanding and I would guess he feels that by highlighting it on this forum he can change these attitudes - of course that assumes that he is correct in what he thinks.
If he is not correct then I hope he is not on dodgy ground legally with such accusations. Esp. on a public forum, which is why I suggested moving it into apres earlier on. |
Publish and be damned according to CG. Maybe he has run away to seek legal advice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, theres a lot of words in the post of his you have quoted but WHAT is the scandal?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shimmy Alcott, I think it best if everyone make their own judgement of what CG put above.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| Megamum, theres a lot of words in the post of his you have quoted but WHAT is the scandal? |
You'll have to wait a couple of months to find out. Shall we speculate? I do have it on good authority that a member of staff was tasked with providing CG with regular reports about the drains. Could it be that?
While we wait, a game of chess, anyone?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, thing is, theres 37 pages of "above" and he seems to chop and change what his actual gripe is every few pages - at one point he was inferring gender discrimination etc etc its like when a kid says they dont like something and when you try to get the reasoning behind that dislike they cant actually place it, but they are still stubborn enough to go on saying they dont like it.
DG would do himself a favour if he does as he says hes going to do; go away, prepare his case...then come back when he has all his ducks in a row.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| PJSki wrote: |
While we wait, a game of chess, anyone? |
Have we time to weave a basket or two?
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Hello. I am new to all this but have joined up specifically because I was emailed a link to the bit on this post to do with the Woodland Trust. Although I am a not-very-good skier my primary interest is the environment, sustainability and all that! Yes indeed I always vote green. If I read it correctly it is being suggested that money was collected from members of SCGB and not much of it reached the Woodland Trust. Simple question- is that true? If so and for reasons I don't think I should go into here, I have a big issue with that and I know others will as well. Charity fundraising work is very tough right now [I should know] and organisations that raise funds with the promise of passing on those funds, and then never do, is a major issue and needs exposing. Rant over, I just need to know if it is in fact the case. Pretty please.
By the way I have never seen such a busy forum. You seem like a very nice bunch even those argumentative types.
If you do respond I may not get back for a while as I am off to bed.
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Sybil Fawlty, it looks likely to be a case of 2+2 = 17 (or smouldering fag ends).
Certainly if money was being donated by members for a specific purpose, then the money would have to be applied to that purpose. However, the link provided by the person who raised the issue does not provide any basis for supposing or suggesting that there has been anything untoward: it simply identifies that about £7K had been raised via the sale of wristbands and, together with about £27.5K allocated from subs, had been applied to a number of environmental causes including the Woodland Trust. While the money raised from wristbands might have been subject to an implied trust, it looks as if it has been applied properly; the info does not indicate that the £27.5K from subs would itself have been subject to an implied trust prior to its allocation (and even if it had been, it would appear to have been applied properly).
That's as much light as I can shed. If you want to find out more then I would suggest you contact the SCGB itself which may be able to give you some rather more accurate information than you might otherwise find in the tittle-tattle of a forum such as this one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, I'm inclined to agree with you.
Moderator, can you just get this thread closed down, it doesn't really do SH any favours - to a casual observer, it just looks like the typical 'washing of dirty laundry' that happens in any club/society... but is best conducted out of the public eye. To more seasoned observers, it just detracts from the otherwise reasonably useful content on SH. Once the 'noise' exceeds a certain level, people interested in the main purpose of SH will simply go elsewhere.
CG, can't you start a blog, or a petition, or something else _of your own_, and stop hi-jacking SH for your own personal vendetta.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Oh come on Chasseur. Are you really saying that just because PJSki's internet persona is offensive the whole of the SCGB is bad?
You could just as easily claim that CG is typical of the whole of Snowheads. I suggest you get some perspective.
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On the rocks, you can suggest what you like. I, for instance, suggest your perspective of the club you have only been a member of for a couple of years, may be flawed.
I was merely pointing out one example. Maybe you should take it up with your club mates - they're the ones letting down the image you profess to believe has changed - whether forum based or in reality. So do come on, there's a good chap.
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You know it makes sense.
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| On the rocks wrote: |
Oh come on Chasseur. Are you really saying that just because PJSki's internet persona is offensive the whole of the SCGB is bad?
You could just as easily claim that CG is typical of the whole of Snowheads. I suggest you get some perspective. |
You can't have a reasoned debate with this guy about the ski club because he's so deeply prejudiced against it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Deeply prejudiced you say, PJSki. You might be confusing me with someone who cares that much about the SKGB. I do think they are worth ridicule quite often and a fair number of their members seem to have a rather inflated opinion of themselves and their importance/relevance. So, fair game, is what I think.
Perhaps you should seek some treatment for that inability to characterise people accurately 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Chasseur wrote: |
Perhaps you should seek some treatment for that inability to characterise people accurately |
Maybe you could give me some guidance then? Seeming as you are able to characterise 30k+ people based on such a small sample.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chasseur wrote: |
| On the rocks, you can suggest what you like. I, for instance, suggest your perspective of the club you have only been a member of for a couple of years, may be flawed. |
Some might say that it's the last couple of years, i.e. the present that's important.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Really, is this it?
Such potential 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I won't be making a further contribution to this thread for the next couple of months or so.
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Aaw! Well I'll miss him. Come back all is forgiven.
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I think some keep up the membership to get the discounts, magazine etc. Some forget to cancel the standing order. |
Sounds bang on. For me it started with the former and has lately become the latter.
Main Gripes:
There has been no REAL change to the website in years. A repaint doesn't count and ski TV is an expensive and very amateurish waste of time, especially the gormless useless wiffle that comes out of the presenter's gobs.
The rep service just does not attract me at all. The rep reports are all, with a very few minor exceptions to prove the rule, the same over hyped rubbish they fire out in the Edge which is spectacularly ill named.
On introducing myself to the stand at a ski show was given a f@&king good ignoring to after they discovered they already had my dosh. (No such problem at all at the SH stand where they are happy to chew the fat all day if you want.)
All the recommendations seem to be made on the basis of who is paying the advertising rather than on the basis of impartial integrity on behalf of the members who keep them in job. Might as well read the Hate Mail Ski Advertising Feature.
I'm bored now.
Admin, can you kill this rubbish please.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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mcspreader, so have you cancelled your standing order now?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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All the recommendations seem to be made on the basis of who is paying the advertising rather than on the basis of impartial integrity on behalf of the members who keep them in job. Might as well read the Hate Mail Ski Advertising Feature.
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Actually, U may find that it's the ad revenue that mostly pays the wages. The model may be that membership figures are primarily for 'leveraging' ad sales these days.
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I'm bored now.
Admin, can you kill this rubbish please.
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We don't like to impose that sort of censorship - if you're bored, go do something else that U find more fun, like for example, cancelling any out of date unnecessary direct debits U may have, freeing up funds for a nice shiny new snowHeads subscriptionWhich allows U to switch adverts off if U don't like them 
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admin, its is you, not U. make an effort.
(makes mental note to complain to nbt about Badmin's name change)
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
admin, its is you, not U. make an effort.
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Actually, sometimes it's U.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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U said it!
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mcspreader,
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On introducing myself to the stand at a ski show was given a f@&king good ignoring
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At the London ski show the 'staff' on/around the stand were like the worst chuggers on the most run down High Street. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Look, I come here to get an update on SCGB forum usage.
I am appalled that this service is suspended for a few months.
I demand that Admin launch an enquiry, ensures the guilty are punished, and restores this benefit.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skibar, as previously mentioned I'm not contributing anything to this thread at the moment but anyone else is welcome to 'spot audit' the SCGB forum traffic. It's not a hugely time-consuming exercise.
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You know it makes sense.
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anyone else is welcome to 'spot audit' the SCGB forum traffic
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Why in God's name would anyone want to waste three minutes of their one and only life doing that?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This morning I received the following email from SCGB director Gerry Aitken ...
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Copyright theft
Cease and desist
You are still using this picture without the consent of the copyright holder: [edit: this was originally a hyperlink to a photo on the sH database]
I now advise you that use of that image by you is subject to a charged a £25 per day. An invoice will be issued in due course and failure to pay will result in a case being brought to the small claims court. If you still refuse to pay I will proceed to the County Court for judgment.
Of course you can avoid any charges or legal action by deleing all copies you have. |
The photo concerned is this one:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/user/profile.aspx/gerry-aitken-1
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/assets/user/profile/images/photos/afd7cca0-fb2c-4f5d-b1b3-3c9d23b13fa3.jpg
It's used on this thread on pages 31 and 36, e.g.: [edit: not any more - now deleted]
http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=94856&start=1400#2266863
Obviously, to avoid this threat and a very large potential bill, I'm inclined to comply with this order [the right to free expression on snowHeads is not one I'm prepared to pay the price for, financially], and am currently researching alternative photos to substitute for the one previously used. That photo was placed in the public domain by the SCGB, who I'd assumed were the copyright-holders. A Ski Club council member/director is essentially a politician, and it's not normal for politicians to prevent reproduction of their images in the public domain.
However, Gerry Aitken has a human right to be upset about things, and I'm about to address that.
[The above posting is not an April Fool, and I've assumed that Gerry Aitken's email is not an April Fool - it's arrived from his normal email address]
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 1-04-13 20:28; edited 3 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=17992&start=200 and he lied about wanting payment.
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So where did the figure of £200 come from?
David had been posting informative and amusing content to snowHeads since soon after it began in Feb'04. I suggested during one of our 'friendly' chats that some of these posts would be better in a dedicated news column for two reasons. Firstly many people prefer to 'read only' rather than 'discuss' on forums and this would provide concentrated info in one place for them. Secondly many people become shy of posting to a forum where 'everyone seems to know so much'; they often don't notice that most of the info is coming from very few individuals and as a result those individuals end up dominating discussion to the detriment of the forum's general balance.
I set up the new front page in Sept '04 and David started posting his more newsy items to it. If anything, this new avenue seemed to put a bit of a wind beneath his wings and he stepped up his output. The result was, IMV, rather good.
In Jan'05, David declared that he could not justify spending so much time on snowHeads without some remuneration and declared that he would stop posting items to the news column on Feb 5th (snowHeads' first anniversary) unless we had made some agreement to that effect by then.
His intitial request was that I pay him £20 per news item with an expectation of 10 items per week (£200 see, was I being mis-leading? ) Apparently this was far below the market rate for his work.
I told him snowHeads wasn't even bringing in that much and negotiations began, became a bit surreal and ended with David's declaration that if it were the case that snowHeads could not afford to pay him, snowHeads would be better off as a community owned thing.... well, u know the rest.
David has denied demanding money so many times in this topic, anyone would think he'd been accused of it |
BTW, looks very much like you've been got with an April 1st joke.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 1-04-13 11:27; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PJSki wrote: |
http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=17992&start=200 and he lied about wanting payment.
BTW, looks very much like you've been got with an April 1st joke. |
The following alternative photo of Gerry Aitken, legitimately captured by a paparazzi photographer in southern England, has now been deposited in the snowHeads photographic archives:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/images/users/41247/Gerry_Aitken_3.jpg
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have some misgivings about this thread, it smacks a bit of the post 2004 sniping although it is fair to say a crass post from the SCGB started it. However DG has convinced me with his figures that there are some serious questions about the repping service. Questions that would be better debated by the Ski Club and not us snowheads, but given that DG is banned over there. I'm not sure trying to silence critics and "awkward" people is the best course of action.
Unless the repping service has some other hidden benefits it seems to be pretty much a dead duck.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, his figures are deliberately misleading. He even has access to robust figures which he has chosen to misinterpret.
CG certainly has a track record to having wild and imaginative versions of the truth: http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=17992&start=200
'Dead duck'? The leading service is used by over 5,000 people every season. I would imagine that a great swath of them would leave if you wound the service up, probably taking more money out of the club than would be saved.
CG's approach seem to be to state the same lie over and over again until people start to believe it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| PJSki wrote: |
davidof, his figures are deliberately misleading. He even has access to robust figures which he has chosen to misinterpret.
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Yes I saw your... erm I mean Gerry's figures on the Ski Club site and the skier day interpretation has merit too. As I say, it would be better for this debate to take place between Ski Club members on their forum.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
davidof, his figures are deliberately misleading. He even has access to robust figures which he has chosen to misinterpret.
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Yes I saw your... erm I mean Gerry's figures on the Ski Club site and the skier day interpretation has merit too. As I say, it would be better for this debate to take place between Ski Club members on their forum. |
He'll always take this to where he will get the most vocal support, which is here of course. As a dirty little propagandist, this place is a better base for him.
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I said this before, but my comment was deleted. I'll say it a different way: could this thread be moved to a more relevant forum area (please)?
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| trickygibbon wrote: |
| I said this before, but my comment was deleted. I'll say it a different way: could this thread be moved to a more relevant forum area (please)? |
Have you been censored? who deleted your post?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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trickygibbon, why move it? It was started by a SCGB employee here. If it hasn't painted SCGB (or some of its members) in a glowing light that's a risk a savvy social media expert considers when they blunder into something. If it was the office intern then it says something about SCGB's social media engagement I think.
By and large I couldn't give a flying  about internal politics at the SCGB (and CG's obsession with holding them to acount) but if the suggestion is to move it somewhere ungoogleable then that starts to smack of whitewash. I did once buy a book on clearance about the history of the SCGB (edited or writted by Arnie Wilson IIRC so I thought it might have some hallmark of quality) but I found it so turgid that I almost lost the will to live.
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Just lock it.
If the not very funny comedy doesn't keep it alive then clearly those with an interest in SCGB will also get personal and keep their thread alive.
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FAQ
(and there are quite a few snowHeads amongst the 156 members)
