 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
We've both got them in our Jackets/trousers and on both boots and haven't done any off piste stuff for aaaaages but I've always drawn some measure of comfort knowing that there's 'something' should I get buried by a random on piste slide (or fall asleep in the loo). Are they pretty well pointless though?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
MeMyselfandI, Recco are great for finding dead bodies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Spyderman, hmmmmnnnnnn, that would make apres quite difficult, why is that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
you very occasionally hear of someone dug out alive because of Recco. it needs to be somewhere easily accessible for the Recco machine so pistes would often tick that box.
however, it's a bit of a difficult question to ask because you are really saying "should I derive any comfort from having a fairly ineffective piece of kit to counter something that is really unlikely to happen?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
MeMyselfandI, The equipment to detect the Recco reflectors is big, normally carried in helicopters, by the time the helicopter gets to a scene of an avalanche, you're looking for bodies not casualties.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Because they are essentially a passive reflective bit of metal that patrol need a bloody large receiver to locate. Needless to say over thousands of acres of a vast ski resort this aren't positioned every few hundred feet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
To be fair, your relatives will consider finding your body quite important. So they aren't totally useless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mosha Marc, until they have to pay to repatriate it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Ah, that makes sense. It's quite difficult to get a handle on how effective it is from lazyGoogle* and there was a thread on here from 2007 that suggested the reflectors were becoming more commonplace.
So our proper, and barely used, transceivers were sold just after our youngest was born, do most resorts have them for hire or is it still a case of buy your own for off piste stuff?
Arno, well quite Pointless catastrophising is a casual hobby of mine.
*Only reading the first page of hits
ETA - sorry, question in the second sentence is easily answered within 'Off Piste' :toddlesoff:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry slight thread hijack here.... but is there a piece of equipment that does give off signal for a transceiver to pick up that's not an actual transceiver costing £300??
I'n view of that avalanche in Tignes that encroached on to a piste, i would feel safer carrying something that would emit a signal to pick up in the event i get buried. But i also dont want to fork out £300 on a transceiver as i do manly piste skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
tomb, so you will be relying on folks forking out £300 to find you but don't want to reciprocate. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
tomb You don't have to fork out £300 for a functional transceiver if you're prepared to invest time into learning how to use it There is a product which I'm not going to direct you to as I think it's morally reprehensible and the moment you go an inch off the groomer with it you're away from any possible justification for your tightwadding. How much do you spend on drinks and meals on the average holiday?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jbob, Really? how many people equipped with full avi gear will be piste skiing??? I was thinking more for piste patrol... and in which case its their job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
fatbob, i understand what your getting at, and I know its only the price of a few days of good eating/drinking. But my situation is that I don't intend to go off piste and therefore really don't want to fork out for a full avalanche kit (probes, shovels, bag, transceiver etc...)
I would however buy some sort of relatively small and cheap beacon that could sit inside a pocket. And in the event of a freak piste avalanche, someone (preferably piste patrol) would have a signal which they could locate me with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
tomb, That's fine till your mate has the same and can't find you when get buried.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
You have to really ask yourself if you are considering a transmit only becon, on the other hand would you be prepared to carry around all day a receive only device for searching? Say the device was given away for free so that you would pick it up at a lift station in the morning. It would be of no use to you apart from being able to assist in searching. What about if you got a discounted lift pass if you carried one?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
tomb, someone (sports Conrad?) was recently selling the Pieps Freeride transciever for a little over £100 - so cheap because it's a single antenna model and thus much harder to search with than up to date models, but will still transmit the signal just fine.
If you do intend to ski offpiste, ever, you could use it, but would have to be prepared to invest (more) time in learning how to use it properly - and frankly if expecting others to search for you, should probably reciprocate anyway.
If you really do only ski onpiste, don't bother. Despite recent scare-mongering, the chances of getting caught and buried in a slide onpiste are ridiculously tiny. Like, REALLY tiny.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
davkt, your missing the point really.... I don't intend to ski off piste and because of this I imagine my chances of being caught in an avalanche are minuscule! But as I've said previously, if there is a cheap beacon type device then I would consider buying it.
How many people skiing piste actually carry a transceiver? My bet is not many! And at around £300, the risk-to-use ratio of the transceiver is poor! Now if there was a product available that did emit a beacon for say £20, then that is something I'd consider buying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
The device you're considering for £20 is called a Recco. For that you get the standard of rescue the resort is willing to support. In the event of a major slide on piste in a major resort provided vis is OK I guess they might put an equipped chopper up. As clarky999 says the risk of getting killed in an on piste slide (provided you've observed all closures) is small (higher in the US for Inbounds slides obviously). Better saving your energy for better spatial awareness re all the maniacs around you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
tomb, But what is the point of such a device if everyone is carrying them? It still needs someone with a receiver to find you and if relying on others it will take time for help to get there which you can't really afford if buried under a few tonnes of snow. There is some silly device that is just a transmitter that wasat the ski show, sorry can't remember what it was called and think it cost rather more than £20 but rather less than a full system.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
gsb, thanks... although they're priced at £67 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| tomb wrote: |
| gsb, thanks... although they're priced at £67 |
And are scaremongering/being sold irresponsibly and in direct contradiction of the knobhead's previous pledges.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
If I were a pisteur trying to hunt down punters after an on-slope/near slope issue - I'd rather they had an emitter than nothing? I agree it's not high on the priority list for a piste skier but not sure why tomb is getting such a hard time - I assume I'm not the only snowhead who doesn't have a transceiver....
aj xx
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
If you are on-piste the risks to you are far better managed by watching the speed you are skiing at, keeping an eye on those around you, not drinking or quite possibly wearing a helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
a.j., It's only because it's a bit like saying I'd like an insurance policy but I'm only prepared to pay a minimal premium because it's not very likely and I don't want my premiums to go towards someone else's catastrophy. Transceivers as a rescue system only work on the basis of mutuality.
Search on Unofficial Networks etc re the snow-be for the full chapter & verse on why transmit only is not an ethical device & the company founder doesn't get it. Overall the existence of the device will result in more people dying than those saved by it in unlikely onpiste avalanches. Off to sell some guns on the street corner .... it's only for ornamental show, it's not my fault what it gets used for...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
It has always struck me as odd that people never mention the fact that the investment made in the latest avalanche transceiver technology is entirely altruistic. As far as I know, having the latest triple axis antenna on you makes it no easier for you to be found than having a 10 year old single axis transceiver strapped around your neck (available at considerable lower cost). Thats why if you ski with cash-challenged mates who wont reciprocate your altruistic tendencies, your better off investing in an airbag first and upgrading your transceiver later, and its also why mrs freebeer always has the latest technology at her disposal in case my airbag fails to do its stuff
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
fatbob, i think the product in question there is aimed at kids and school groups.... looks like a good idea IMO
a.j., Thanks for moral support 
I don't mind getting a hard time here.... I know my question/suggestion goes against what is generally recommended on SH, but I do think the likes of fatbob, are taking my point the wrong way. As a piste skier who doesn't carry a full avi kit (and i'm sure most don't), I thought the added level of security of a 'beacon' might be worth investing in provided such a product existed and was the right price. Surely a little extra security would be worth it at the right price?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
stoat of the dead, fatbob, okay lets put it another way.... what percentage of piste skiers do you think carry an avi kit???
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
tomb, ...and therefore is profiteering from paranoid, ignorant parents who'd be better off doing DD on the driving records of the darlings' coach drivers or stopping the driver texting on the transfer bus.
I understand your point, the problem is if 99.9% of piste skiers don't carry avi kit - who is going to dig you out in the magic 15 minutes anyway? Better hope your guy has a phone signal, knows the number for dispatch and can describe exactly where you are to a full hut of pisteurs just up the hill with bloody big shovels. & that's before we get the cowboys who will use it as an offpiste device and those who simply don't give a  and will do the price/feature calculation and sod everyone else
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
"Surely a little extra security would be worth it at the right price?"
But the risk of being avalanched on piste is massively small. If you are focussing on that risk on-piste you are I think focussing in the wrong place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
tomb, very few... In Europe. I was around when a bloke died in an inbounds avy in the US 2 minutes before I was going to ski a line very close. On a big powder day in Utah or Wyoming a lot of people will be carrying.
I really do think there is better stuff you can spend your money on for on-piste safety than a transmit- only beacon. And if you expect to be rescued with a beacon, you should be willing to help rescue. That's all.
Good luck anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I'm getting bored of this now..... it was a hypothetical question and i was in no way advocating using a transceiver solely as a location beacon only..... i was merely suggesting that if the price was right then why not carrying such a piece of kit. I find it frustrating that certain snow-heads display such obstinate tendencies when you to question a general consensus even though the point your making might be valid.
And as it happens i think those beacons are an ideal solution for a school group..... 1 or 2 teachers with avi kits and the kids with the beacons.... what are the alternatives, equip a whole school group with full avi kits??? And then also ensure every one of those kids knows how to use the kits correctly?? I dont think so somehow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
If you are on-piste the risks to you are far better managed by watching the speed you are skiing at, keeping an eye on those around you, not drinking or quite possibly wearing a helmet
|
given what the "100 units" people post on here, it would take very few days of not drinking to save enough to buy the full avvy kit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tomb, the alternatives are not bother at all as teachers getting kids in a situation where they need to use an avi kit at all is probably the end of their careers anyway. Let's say 10 kids all with transmit only beacons they don't know how to use in the vicinity of the search site, no signal confusion there then.
You have a valid point but not one any avalanche or SAR professional is likely to agree with. No organisation endorses transmit only, want to think about why transceiver companies don't make and sell them despite it being relatively easy for them- and it's not about only selling the high end product?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
tomb, there's a risk those same kids could be attacked by machine gun wielding gangsters in the school play ground. So you could also buy them Kevlar vests. I don't think you would though because the risk is pretty small and the mitigation would not be proportionate.
Similarly a bunch of kids skiing on piste do not need "beacons" (or full avalanche kit) because the risk is so small and such a response would not be proportionate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tomb, tosh. If the kids are skiing off-piste they need to learn more as part of their teaching, and i wouldnt let my children be looked after by a teacher off piste unless I knew a hell of a lot about them. My eldest wears a proper beacon off-piste, but his training could be better.
If they are on-piste there are better things for their safety to spend the money on, like flying to the resort rather than going by coach.
The issue is that on-piste you'd do better spending the dosh on other things. That's the real point here, as a few others have pointed out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
