Hello! I have planned a trip for my wife and I to come visit Europe this Feb. for two weeks, and I'm looking for some friendly advice. Through some help on TGR and on this site, I have decided that we are going to fly to Geneva, drive to Monetier for 5 days (4 days riding), then Montgenevre for 4 days (3 days riding) then Chamonix for 4 days (3 days riding). This is my wife's first trip to Europe (We live in Colorado), so we chose these locations for not only snow and terrain quality, but for the charm and whatnot. We will visit right before the French school holidays, so hopefully it won't be too crowded.
Anyways, I have been carefully studying the piste maps, and trying to get a good idea of where to ride to maximize our time. Here in the States, we love steep tree skiing (we ride Silverton, Wolf Creek, Telluride), and big open bowls. I'd love to ride nothing but off-piste while in Europe, but won't unless I have a good idea of where to safely ride. We will be hiring a guide in Cham for 3 days, but haven't planned (and can't really afford) a guide while at Serre Che and Montgenevre. We will probably head to La Grave and get a guide for one day.
So, where are some good black pistes, or maybe some off piste/between piste runs at Serre Che and Montgenevre? Are all the trees heading down into Monetier pretty good to ride? Are there places we will get cliffed out? What about some good spots in the Milky Way? DO NOT WANT BUMPS, haha.
We will be bringing our avy beacons (tranceivers over there?), shovels, probes. We have taken an Avy 1 course, but are still beginners in the snow evaluation area. Really, I am just looking for somewhat steep (35-45ish) untracked lines be that upper alpine or trees. Oh, and we are both snowboarders.
Thanks for your time.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
a2thak, some of the tree skiing in Serre Chevalier is protected, and not available for skiing, but there are several bits that are. Hike up Cucumelle and down into Grand Pres and back to Monetier. It might be a good idea though to hire a guide for at least a day to see the best of it. Montagnol is one of the big off-piste routes, but is prone to avalanche, and an experienced SnowHead who had skied there before went the wrong way and fell quite a way down a cliff. Jackson's is another, but you really need someone to show you where the best stuff is. Plenty between piste stuff though. I can't advise on Monty, but my hubby might drop in later.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Loads of obvious off-piste terrain right off the lift in Montgenevre.
I suspect it gets tracked hard and early though.
I went the end of April and my pal and I pretty much had it to ourselves.
If you wanted to do good black pistes pity you didn't plan detours to Val d'Isere, Tignes, or Les Arcs. Places you have chosen not exactly known for steepness (excepting Chamonix of course). Tree line in Europe much lower than US so you will struggle for good tree skiing.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
a2thak, I've been doing a blog for the past three or so years of our trips to Serre, Montgenevre, (we stay for four or five weeks in Serre travelling around) La Grave etc etc links below will give you a taste of what's on offer, as well as falling off cliffs and more
Monetier is pretty well acknowledged as one of the finest off piste tree skiing areas in the Alps, when La Grave is shut groups travel to Monetier as well as Montgenevre / Claviere
Weathercam, I had hoped there would be some steep tree skiing on view in your videos like the OP asked about. (I have only done a few single days in Serre Chevalier when skiing La Grave).
a2thak, a pity you couldn't do more than a day at La Grave - that is the real adventure skiing - huge, very steep descents are possible, but you need a guide for anything but the 3 (less steep) main ways down. This is one of the most spectacular steep ones (La Voute): http://youtube.com/v/R9Sz61SKuOE - about 6,000ft vertical right down to the road - but there are many others.
Montgenevre has good off piste, particularly off the Rocher de l'Aigle and off to the left of it (on either side of the ridge but mostly on the Montgenevre side. You can traverse a little along the far side of the ridge and then climb up to access more slopes, (for example http://youtube.com/v/14wy-WiZ4cY) but perhaps you should take a guide for that. As I am sure you know, off piste in Europe is at your own risk, like backcountry skiing in North America.
There are some small areas of trees to ski above Claviere and a big area below Sagna Longa (leave the blue path down to the right as it traverses left, but cut left after a while to avoid cliffs). You can go right down to the valley if you go right of the buildings, skiing down to Sagna Longa: a lovely, long tree run, though less steep. However you then need to cut left half way down to minimise the long pole along the valley track by the river to get back to the lifts, or alternatively have taxi phone numbers ready to take you back.
You should also try the smaller area on the other side of the road at Montgenevre, which has some good off piste - though you might need a guide off to the right (Claviere direction).
Generally I'm afraid there is not a lot of challenging piste skiing.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 6-12-12 11:35; edited 3 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I would forget Montgenevre and go to Tignes or Val d'Isere and hire a guide.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Tree line in Europe much lower than US so you will struggle for good tree skiing.
Not 100 per cent correct. Claviere and Montgenevre have larches rather than fir trees and offer really good gladed skiing. So does Serre Che and the Combe de Berger in LG when the conditions are right.
Montgenevre offers good mini golf lines right off the lift. It will be obvious. For more developed stuff I would suggest the route between the Gondran fort network on the Montgenevre resort boundary and the road leading up from Briancon. This requires a spare car or hitching back to Montgenevre. Like Snowball, I've also hiked and skied from the Rocher de'LAigle chairlift in the direction of Claviere, which was also pretty fine. Both of these require a 1:25,000 topo map and good stability conditions. I'd definitely recommend a guide, especially if it is your first time making terrain decisions in Europe.
If I recall correctly, one well known guiding operation had a client death and a guide seriously injured round there a while back. I was also with a party on the Gondran route where someone banged themselves up pretty good. We spent an hour in the snow waiting for the PGHM. Be careful.
Guide wise, I've used Quentin Delavignette out of Alpe d'Huez, the Skierslodge guys and I have wasted far too much time on Joe Vallone's blog so should probably recommend him as well.
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Yes, the skiing from the Gondran Fort is a good trip. I just added a Montgenevre video (not mine) - you can head further right from that top, heading towards Claviere.
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Quote:
I have decided that we are going to fly to Geneva
Consider flying to Turin if you can get open jaws.
In other news there will be moguls at la Grave like you have never seen. Don't let this put you off.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
a2thak, we've driven from Geneva to Serre Chevalier a few times. It isn't too bad a drive, around 3.5-4 hours, although Turin is closer.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The old fortified town at Briancon is worth a visit on the way between Serre Chevalier and Montgenevre.
http://www.voyonsvoir.org/files/gimgs/164_0025744briancon1.jpg (PS the main opening through the wall that you can see is later - the old entrance is through a double fortified gate to its left or a smaller gate far right)
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skilegs, like I said "when La Grave is shut groups travel to Monetier as well as Montgenevre / Claviere"
If you were going to hire a guide for a day then I'd take Claviere / Montgenevre area any day over Tignes / Val etc
I've probably done around ten individual days with guides in Claviere / Montgenevre and there's also Sestrierre as well so I do sort of know what I'm talking about.
There's just no comparison with Val / Tignes which is more like a "ski factory" - for sure on a good day anywhere could be epic, but you can still find fresh lines in C &MG a couple of weeks after a dump.
That said me and the Mrs are going to Tignes (again yawn) Jan 13th for a punters week as my daughter is there doing her second season, I'm more enthusiastic over our next trip which is to Bareges in the Pyrenees a few weeks later, think that says a lot as to where and the type of ski area I prefer over the ski factories....
But each to their own, and yes one day in La Grave could be a waste, as a2thak, mentioned he's from Colorado so no doubt he's aware of the late Doug Coombs who skied all over the world, and where did he choose to ski and live when in Europe, that said Chamonix is a must too, if only then to appreciate LG even more
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Weathercam, Thanks for those links. Some good stuff! I had heard Serre Che, esp Monetier had very good tree skiing, which I one reason we chose it.
snowball, Nothing is set in stone right now, exept my flights and a small deposit on a hotel in Monetier. We may do more than one day in La Grave, we will just have to see. My wife is a little nervous after seeing all the reviews and pics of La Grave. She is a competent boarder and can handle deep powder very well, but gets nervous over ~38 degrees, even though she can handle it. She just needs to boost her confidence.
gorilla, I already booked the flight to Geneva. We were able to fly for free there due to my flight miles. I don't mind a little of a drive.
To kind of clarify; I'm not necessarily wanting pure "off-piste", otherwise we would bring our splitboards. Basically, I would rather ride powder than groomers. Also, we are going for the atmosphere and food as much as the snowboarding. We are so pumped!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
snowball, Here you go some classics before YouTube and Vimeo existed
Watch out for how not to head plant at 1:30
2002 La Grave Heroes - short trailer by Simon Bedford from Weathercam
And a very very good place to stay in La Grave and are very flexible in that you can stay for one day or as many as you want depending on the conditions
http://www.hotel-edelweiss.com/
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Weathercam wrote:
skilegs, like I said "when La Grave is shut groups travel to Monetier as well as Montgenevre / Claviere"
If you were going to hire a guide for a day then I'd take Claviere / Montgenevre area any day over Tignes / Val etc
I've probably done around ten individual days with guides in Claviere / Montgenevre and there's also Sestrierre as well so I do sort of know what I'm talking about.
There's just no comparison with Val / Tignes which is more like a "ski factory" - for sure on a good day anywhere could be epic, but you can still find fresh lines in C &MG a couple of weeks after a dump.
That said me and the Mrs are going to Tignes (again yawn) Jan 13th for a punters week as my daughter is there doing her second season, I'm more enthusiastic over our next trip which is to Bareges in the Pyrenees a few weeks later, think that says a lot as to where and the type of ski area I prefer over the ski factories....
But each to their own, and yes one day in La Grave could be a waste, as a2thak, mentioned he's from Colorado so no doubt he's aware of the late Doug Coombs who skied all over the world, and where did he choose to ski and live when in Europe, that said Chamonix is a must too, if only then to appreciate LG even more
Very aware of Doug Coombs and how he lived in LG. Do you have a guide recommendation for Claviere / Montgenevre? I saw gorilla recommended Quentin Delavignette out of Alpe d'Huez. Also, I was looking at guidelagrave.com for a La Grave guide. It appears that skierslodge's guides only guide for their guests...is that correct? Or could I hire them for a day?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Depends how busy Pelle in Skiers Lodge is - best option would be to stay in the Edelweiss Hotel and Robin & Marlon would sort you out a guide, if not then contact the bureau des guides in LG - also depends when in Feb you'll be going - Feb 9th onwards is holidays and even LG will be busier than normal.
If you contact the Edelweiss say Gavin (that's me, I do their website) recommended them to you and they'll sort you out, you can do all that by email with Marlon. Marlon is Dutch and Robin Scottish so no language issues.
You get many guys from Colorado over staying there both in the winter and summer as the hotel is very cycling orientated, plus the tour de france usually passes through LG or near to most years!
If you stay in La Grave then the guide would take you (with his transport) as and where he thought was best for both of you, that's a real bonus. So that might mean in and around LG, or over to Alpe D'Huez / Deux Alpes or Serre, Claviere, Montgenevre etc - that's the beauty of LG in that it's a great base to do road trips, which are no more than an hour or so at the most to get to from LG and you get to see all the areas and have your own mini tour guide !!
That's how I ended up discovering the area over the past 15 or so years, and will cap it all by buying a place next March !
PS I skied Crested Bute a while back, and that was a very chilled out place by US standards, almost like LG.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 4-12-12 17:35; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Weathercam wrote:
Depends how busy Pelle in Skiers Lodge is - best option would be to stay in the Edelweiss Hotel and Robin & Marlon would sort you out a guide, if not then contact the bureau des guides in LG - also depends when in Feb you'll be going - Feb 9th onwards is holidays and even LG will be busier than normal.
If you contact the Edelweiss say Gavin (that's me, I do their website) recommended them to you and they'll sort you out, you can do all that by email with Marlon. Marlon is Dutch and Robin Scottish so no language issues.
If you stay in La Grave then the guide would take you (with his transport) as and where he thought was best for both of you, that's a real bonus. So that might mean in and around LG, or over to Alpe D'Huez / Deux Alpes or Serre, Claviere, Montgenevre etc - that's the beauty of LG in that it's a great base to do road trips, which are no more than an hour or so at the most to get to from LG and you get to see all the areas and have your own mini tour guide !!
That's how I ended up discovering the area over the past 15 or so years, and will cap it all by buying a place next March !
I will be going Feb 2-16, staying in Monetier Feb 3-8, Montgenevre Feb 8-12 and Cham 12-16. I have my hotel booked for Monetier, with a non-refundable deposit so I had just planned on driving up to La Grave from there.
I thought French school holidays don't start until Feb 16th this year? That was a major reason for my trip dates.
A very good guide who lives in Serre Chevalier (and also guides in La Grave and Montgenevre) is Jean-Yves Hubaud. Or in La Grave my favourites are Phillipe Andre and Pierre Rizzardo. In some resorts you can join a group of your standard run by a company with several guides. I don't know what the possibilities are around there. I tend to go with a group and hire a guide between us. I shall be in Montgenevre from the 1st of February but, except on that first weekend (when we won't have a guide and tend to be a bit more conservative about where we ski), will have a full group of 6 with our guide (6 is normally the maximum though some will take 7). When will you be there?
Edit: our guide is booked up for the season and some of the others might be too.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
a2thak, 7pm the night before. Do an airport hotel
After all it is free
After all it is free
patricksh wrote:
a2thak, 7pm the night before. Do an airport hotel
I have thought of this, and will do it if it is not really feasible to stay in Cham. I'd rather leave Cham at like 2am or something than to worry about checking out of my hotel in Cham, then leaving my luggage somewhere while we ride, then driving to Geneva without showering or changing that night.
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snowball wrote:
Weathercam, I had hoped there would be some steep tree skiing on view in your videos like the OP asked about. (I have only done a few single days in Serre Chevalier when skiing La Grave).
a2thak, a pity you couldn't do more than a day at La Grave - that is the real adventure skiing - huge, very steep descents are possible, but you need a guide for anything but the 3 (less steep) main ways down. This is one of the most spectacular (La Voute): http://youtube.com/v/R9Sz61SKuOE - about 6,000ft vertical right down to the road - but there are many others.
Montgenevre has good off piste, particularly off the Rocher de l'Aigle and off to the left of it (on either side of the ridge but mostly on the Montgenevre side. You can traverse a little along the far side of the ridge and then climb up to access more slopes, (for example http://youtube.com/v/14wy-WiZ4cY) but perhaps you should take a guide for that. As I am sure you know, off piste in Europe is at your own risk, like backcountry skiing in North America.
There are some small areas of trees to ski above Claviere and a big area below Sagna Longa (leave the blue path down to the right as it traverses left, but cut left after a while to avoid cliffs). You can go right down to the valley if you go right of the buildings, skiing down to Sagna Longa: a lovely, long tree run, though less steep. However you then need to cut left half way down to minimise the long pole along the valley track by the river to get back to the lifts, or alternatively have taxi phone numbers ready to take you back.
You should also try the smaller area on the other side of the road at Montgenevre, which has some good off piste - though you might need a guide off to the right (Claviere direction).
Generally I'm afraid there is not a lot of challenging piste skiing.
Both those videos are exactly what we are looking for! Looks like a blast!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Stop off for a day at Les Karellis on your way past. You won't regret it:
skilegs, like I said "when La Grave is shut groups travel to Monetier as well as Montgenevre / Claviere"
If you were going to hire a guide for a day then I'd take Claviere / Montgenevre area any day over Tignes / Val etc
I've probably done around ten individual days with guides in Claviere / Montgenevre and there's also Sestrierre as well so I do sort of know what I'm talking about.
There's just no comparison with Val / Tignes which is more like a "ski factory" - for sure on a good day anywhere could be epic, but you can still find fresh lines in C &MG a couple of weeks after a dump.
They're from Colorado, they should be used to "ski-factory" resorts
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
That's why I ride mainly at Wolf Creek and Silverton. They are about as opposite as you can get from the "ski factories" like Breck or Vail.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If the snow is good, there are so many bowls and so much between-piste skiing in Serre Chevalier, it should keep you very happy.
In Montgenevre, Claviere, There's some lovely long runs through the trees down to Cesana.
Or from the Gondrans back towards Briançon, or even Cervieres (car pick-up required).
There's also some very accessible off-piste from the top of Eagle Rock, both on the French, and the Italian side. No hiking required.
If you buy a 6 day pass, you should also get free days in the Italian Milky Way, Deux Alpes, Alpes d'Huez and Puy-St-Vincent. La Grave is a must for the serious off-piste skier but does require a guide because of the crevasses and the rather large cliff at the end.
The region may not be as famous as some of the northern resorts, but there is some lovely skiing about and a more relaxed approach to life.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
In its defence, it has to be said that there is lots of wonderful off piste at Val d'Isere / Tignes, though it does tend to get skied out rather quickly these days, unless you are prepared to skin. Not nearly as quickly as the in-bounds North American skiing I've tried, though.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
In its defence, it has to be said that there is lots of wonderful off piste at Val d'Isere / Tignes, though it does tend to get skied out rather quickly these days, unless you are prepared to skin. Not nearly as quickly as the in-bounds North American skiing I've tried, though.
I think the point here is that you can find good skiing almost anywhere in the Alps. Some places are obviously better than others but pretty much everywhere has something worth doing more than once. LDA tends to get a lot of stick on here. I spent a season there and reckon I've skied about half of the worthwhile lines.
Moving back on topic, I understand that 1hr's skin out of Sestriere gets you into their heli terrain. That could be one to look into as well.
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Poster: A snowHead
