I have just bought my first touring setup, Whitedot Preacher with Maker Barons. Downhill performance is more of a priority for me and was looking at boots and skins to complete the setup. It would really just be single day tours to find some fresh.
was thinking
Full Tilt Seth Morrison
g3 alpinist or Black Diamond ascension.
Any alternative suggestions would be wecome.
Thanks.
Ross
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Boots = depends what fits your foot.
Skins - you can't go wrong with the BDs
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
roscoeh, I have some bd factors they are a bit lardy but you will need something stiff to drive the preachers.
If the FT suits your foot then go for it. Doesn't need to be the Seth, I found the Classic plenty stiff enough for me, although the rubber sole on this year's Seth looks very handy. You can get any DH boot "Sethed" (i.e. put a vibram rubber sole on it) - you need to sign a waiver, but there's a place in Cham that will do it for you (Sole Boot Lab I think). It's not a touring boot (I assume you know this) but it's a tour-able downhill boot. I'd think twice about doing a hut to hut tour with them, but it sounds like that is not your priority either.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I would definitely recommend Sole Boot Lab if your in Cham, went the other year for new insoles and were great to deal with
I've read a lot about skins recently as I needed to replace some old Volkl skins.
Opinions are divided on what's best.
G3 Alpinist - great glue & glide but most other premium name skins grip better. I've had these on my soft snow ski touring setup but only since Dec 2011 so haven't put too many tours on them yet.
A few sources said the Black Diamond ascension skins didn't glide very well, absorbed a lot of water and balled up.
After a lot of investigation I ended up going for Kohla 100% Mohair I-Clip for my other touring setup as they came out very well in a number of tests and I didn't find a bad word about them on the internet.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 2-12-12 19:55; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Toured (and skied) in my Technica Cochise 120s for the first time today, (with barons), really really happy with them. Can only compare them to my old Salomon alpine boots, but the walk mode makes the up much much nicer, and they were also much much stiffer and more responsive on the way down (skied HORRIBLY for the first 100 metres or so 'til I adjusted). I've only got the touring/dynafit soles, they also work in the Marker bindings (and Fritschis), tbh quite happy using them all the time as the rubber sole is nice and grippy for walking about on.
Strongly recommended, if they work for your feet.
Oh, no complaints with my BD skins, but they're the only ones I've used so I don't have much frame of reference...
After all it is free
After all it is free
clarky999 wrote:
Toured (and skied) in my Technica Cochise 120s for the first time today,...
How far do you reckon you could go on them? Multi day or day only? Thanks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
mishmash, hard to say yet, really. Considering I was using them with Dynastar Big Troubles (which are pretty heavy for the size) and barons, it was a pretty heavy set-up. I only skinned for a couple of hours as I left late, and it was getting dark, but I could have done a lot more no problem. The boots were great, comfortable, and the walk mode is smooth and un-inhibiting (is that a word?). Given a lighter, dynafit set-up, I'd have thought they'd be ok for multi-day tours, but as I've never done one that's pure speculation.
My main aim with touring is day trips to access fun terrain for the down, being essentially a stiff alpine boot but with walk-mode and dynafit-compatability, they're pretty damn perfect for that. I also could only afford one (well, tow, you know what I mean) boot for all my skiing, and this seemed about the best 'one-boot-to-do-it-all' type thing. For a more pure touring-focussed (and still stiff-flexing) boot, consider Scarpa Maestrale RS.
More detailed reviews of the Technica (and RS too, actually) here:
I have just bought my first touring setup, Whitedot Preacher with Maker Barons. Downhill performance is more of a priority for me and was looking at boots and skins to complete the setup. It would really just be single day tours to find some fresh.
was thinking
Full Tilt Seth Morrison
g3 alpinist or Black Diamond ascension.
Any alternative suggestions would be wecome.
Thanks.
Ross
Just get the boots that fit, I've used the Morrisons with Preachers and Duke's for the past three seasons and find no problem in using an alpine boot for anything up to a couple of hours skinning...just go to a knowledgeable boot fitter like solutions4feet.com and keep you mind open to what they say. Moved to the Lange XT130's for this season on CEM's advise and can't wait to get out to town in a couple of weeks!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
How heavy the touring boots, skis, bindings combo you can get away with depends very much on your fitness in relation to other ski tourers in the group on the way up, and technique on the way down.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
the_doc wrote:
Just get the boots that fit, I've used the Morrisons with Preachers and Duke's for the past three seasons and find no problem in using an alpine boot for anything up to a couple of hours skinning...just go to a knowledgeable boot fitter like solutions4feet.com and keep you mind open to what they say. Moved to the Lange XT130's for this season on CEM's advise and can't wait to get out to town in a couple of weeks!
I tried the Langes on when I bought my Full Tilts. No question that they both suit similar low-volume feet, and both are good boots IMHO, but I found the Langes a bit too soft - I'd be interested to hear what you think ("130" implies they are very stiff, but I didn't find that, I found them softer than the "7" tongue on the FT classic, which I think is about a "110" flex, whatever that means). It could be that the liners in the FT give it a lot more stiffness that they would otherwise get. I found the Seths a bit too stiff.
EDIT - actually that's not quite right, I found the "First Chair" FT boot too stiff, the Seths were actually not a lot different to the Classics, just a little bit stiffer. Given the similarity I went for the lighter/cheaper and not-quite-so-horrible-looking Classics. They still look quite horrible. This years Seths look a lot nicer though.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 4-12-12 14:17; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
roscoeh,
I wouldn't go for a boot that doesn't have tech (dynafit) fittings especially if you think you could well be doing Hut to hut tours at a later date.
My view (and this is really a personal thing, not advice as such) is that if you are going for a heavy set up, such as fat skis, Barons and DH style boots then there's little point in worrying about Tech inserts. If you were going to switch to a lightweight ski mountaineering set up then along with Tech bindings and skinnier skis you would probably want to switch to light weight boots. Even if you had Tech inserts on the heavy boots (e.g. BD Factors) you might still want to switch. At that point I would want to go for Tech. That's my logic anyway (and my explanation to the OH as to why I need another pair of skis and another pair of boots).
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Tech binding compatible boots mean .....
1) he can go for lighter dynafit bindings later and still use the same setup for a multiday tour. May be even swaping over the bindings depending on the tour.
2) He can rent a light dynafit setup if he decides to go multi-tour. Before someone decides to invest in a light touring setup it's probably prudent to see if multi-day tours are for them by renting ski/binding & skins before laying out circa 1500 to 2000 Euros on a light weight setup.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes, but tech bindings also mean you restrict your choice of boot and if your focus is on DH (as in this case) then you really don't want to do that. It all depends on your priorities, but if you want the ability to skin up but have the best downhill performance then you really want a DH boot. If the BD Factor (or similar) suits your foot (and you have the €/£/$) then go for it, but if a Lange or a FT is the best DH boot for your feet then in this case I'd really not get worked up about tech inserts.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
given that hes already got skis and non-tech bindings, its a good shout to go for boots with tech fittings (that are also compatible to his barons). This year in particular thats most "ski-touring" type boots, and plenty of them are hefty enough for good DH.
Gets you on the ladder towards a full tech setup - which is perhaps inevitably in the future - to quote the OP "I have just bought my FIRST touring setup"
sah,
Have you done a long hut to hut tour and used dynafit/tech bindings?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB wrote:
sah,
Have you done a long hut to hut tour and used dynafit/tech bindings?
No and no. I've done day tours and generally skin up as a way to get to more skiing rather than for ski mountaineering or hut to hut. I have nothing against hut to hut, and I'd be happy doing less serious tours with my current set up (I have a plan to do the Silvretta this season, the same plan I've had for about 3 seasons in fact... some day).
My situation is identical to the OP, in that the priority is DH performance. With that in mind I've found that skinning in DH boots (Langes and now FT Classics) is not a problem, I've typically done 1 to 3 hour climbs and not suffered, and then on the downhill I've obviously been in the best boots (for me).
Like I said, if I was going to do a big tour or spend more time touring I'd probably switch skis and bindings anyway, and then I'd got a for more full on touring boot, not a DH crossover. Then I know I'd be losing DH performance, but that's not the point on a tour with significant climbing.
I did try the BD Factors, and if they had suited me and if they had been £200 cheaper I may have been tempted, but the fit wasn't great for me, certainly not as good as the FT last. I also looked at the Dynafit Titans, same issue really. So I went for the FT instead and I've never regretted it. I should also point out that I ski mainly lift-served skiing, so climbing is only a few days in a season, and even then not necessarily all day.
I've found that skinning in DH boots (Langes and now FT Classics) is not a problem, I've typically done 1 to 3 hour climbs and not suffered, and then on the downhill I've obviously been in the best boots (for me).
.
So isnt the answer for OP to stay with his current Alpine boots, try some short stuff and then either go for a tech or hybrid boot?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
sah, I think the point is- where boots are concerned in particular, you can go towards a "touring boot" - lighter, walk mode, tech or not, and still maintain DH. I have a setup waiting to be mounted this season sometime, of PM Gear Bro skis (stiff, wide, light) and plum guides (light, strong, DIN(-ish) to 12), with Scarpa Mobe boots (middle of road light, walk mode, tech, stiffish.)
That will be a plenty adequate climber and a super DH. My priority remains DH perfromance too but the gear is starting to evolve nicely to allow a closer crossover than the simple choice between up and down.
Each to their own, but i reckon a lot of us came on a similar journey as OP in terms of getting into touring. Maybe years ago for a few of us the options really were up or down, but with the gear updates a new tourer (who will pretty much always be DH oriented) could go straight to tech stuff happily (doesnt mean they have to go rando light/flimsy). You wouldnt really want tech for just resort skiing though - so OP may well retire current new setup to resort use in a year or two and get tech for tours. A solid prediction
btw OP, g3 alpinist skins are perfectly good too
After all it is free
After all it is free
mishmash wrote:
sah wrote:
I've found that skinning in DH boots (Langes and now FT Classics) is not a problem, I've typically done 1 to 3 hour climbs and not suffered, and then on the downhill I've obviously been in the best boots (for me).
.
So isnt the answer for OP to stay with his current Alpine boots, try some short stuff and then either go for a tech or hybrid boot?
Yeah, I think so:-)
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
sah,
My first big ski tour was in the Silvretta's - it was fantastic, get it done.
Just because a touring boot has tech fittings doesn't mean it's a soft boot.
There are so many touring boots with tech fittings these days that it's unlikely foot shape or boot stiffness will determine whether a skier can go for tech fittings or not. Once you have them you leave your options open and if you or the OP get bitten by the multi day tour bug, you will be thankful for not having to fork out for another pair of boots.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
Just because a touring boot has tech fittings doesn't mean it's a soft boot.
Indeed. One thing I had against the BD Factor was that it was *too* stiff...
Quote:
There are so many touring boots with tech fittings these days that it's unlikely foot shape or boot stiffness will determine whether a skier can go for tech fittings or not
If you can find a boot that you like and it has tech fittings then that's perfect, no doubt it gives you the best of both worlds. That wasn't the case for me last year... and the particular boot the OP mentioned happens to be excellent (IMHO) and lacks tech inserts.
Put it another way, if you are a fan of the Full Tilt boot (aka Flexon) then any other boot will feel like a compromise. They just suit some feet so well that people swear by them. This year they put a rubber sole on the Seth version, maybe next year they'll do a rocker sole with tech inserts... that would be seriously interesting to me.
There is always going to be a compromise to be made in kit though. Tech inserts or not the fact is that a stiff DH boot will be heavier than a pure touring boot, so even if you had a tech DH boot you might still want another boot for a long tour maybe?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sah wrote:
Indeed. One thing I had against the BD Factor was that it was too stiff
I found the same, but replacing the strap with an elastic booster strap sorted it.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
sah wrote:
the_doc wrote:
Just get the boots that fit, I've used the Morrisons with Preachers and Duke's for the past three seasons and find no problem in using an alpine boot for anything up to a couple of hours skinning...just go to a knowledgeable boot fitter like solutions4feet.com and keep you mind open to what they say. Moved to the Lange XT130's for this season on CEM's advise and can't wait to get out to town in a couple of weeks!
I tried the Langes on when I bought my Full Tilts. No question that they both suit similar low-volume feet, and both are good boots IMHO, but I found the Langes a bit too soft - I'd be interested to hear what you think ("130" implies they are very stiff, but I didn't find that, I found them softer than the "7" tongue on the FT classic, which I think is about a "110" flex, whatever that means). It could be that the liners in the FT give it a lot more stiffness that they would otherwise get. I found the Seths a bit too stiff.
Hmm, strange, I found exactly the same! Changed the 10 tongue on my Morrisons for an 8 flex and I was much happier, as for the XT's I guess we'll see how it goes, but I've got a ton of reviews to do when I get back home to the 'Hof as there's been a bit of interest on my new FlyLow setup here aswell!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I'd have thought that most people who get into touring, will end up with tech bindings sooner or later (I know I want some, though can't afford them yet). The more efficient stride should make more difference than just the weight difference (as per Haggis_Trap on the other thread. Given this it would seem to make sense to get something that'll work with tech bindings in the future.
Even on a fairly short skin the other day, the walk mode of my Cochises made a big difference over my old alpine boots (lighter too, I think), and they also skied a lot better on the way down. There's enough boots out there that will work very well for downhill, tour acceptably, and work with both DIN and tech bindings - Cochise family, Factor, Titan, etc. Dynafit Mercury and Vulcan, and Scarpa Maestrale RS will work with 'normal' touring bindings like Fritschi and Marker, and tech bindings, and also be very good going downhill. There should be an option that'll work with your feet...
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
All interesting information.
Don't really think it has cleared it up but one thing I would like to know is could I buy tech/dynafit boot they would grip into my barons? (obviously not with the toe pin they use)
It is not ever going to be a pure lightweight touring setup, For now I just want to go side country and maybe do spend 3-4 hours on the up maximum. Ultimately I may get the bug to go longer as I do enjoy the walking.
Will I be alright for a day tour 50% up / 50% down on my current setup with a seth or alternative boot?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
roscoeh wrote:
All interesting information.
Don't really think it has cleared it up but one thing I would like to know is could I buy tech/dynafit boot they would grip into my barons? (obviously not with the toe pin they use)
Yes you could use them in your barons and use in a dynafit/tech binding later. Not all boots will go in a tech/dynafit binding, a touring binding (Fritschi, Marker etc) and an alpine binding though. (generally jut the first two)
roscoeh wrote:
It is not ever going to be a pure lightweight touring setup, For now I just want to go side country and maybe do spend 3-4 hours on the up maximum. Ultimately I may get the bug to go longer as I do enjoy the walking.
Will I be alright for a day tour 50% up / 50% down on my current setup with a seth or alternative boot?
Most tours are 50% up 50% down, it just takes you longer to get up
Never buy a boot just because it looks good how it fits is key, how it skis, how good it is to walk in and how compatible it is with different bindings are all important factors though. Have you tried any touring boots on?
if it's a full tilt style boot you're after then I love my Dalbello Virus', i think this years model is called the sherpa and might be worth a look since it'll give you walk mode and tech inserts.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Jamied9 wrote:
if it's a full tilt style boot you're after then I love my Dalbello Virus', i think this years model is called the sherpa and might be worth a look since it'll give you walk mode and tech inserts.
Very interesting thanks! To quote the blurb "Virus is an interesting boot that could be very nice for skiers who like the “Flexon” type of construction and flex". If the last is a similar low volume one then these will be very interesting indeed to me:-) They also come with intuition liners, which are fantastic. Any ideas on UK stockists and prices?
I suspect the photo is of a prototype or pre-production model because the description does mention inserts. It would be very odd to go to the trouble of building a boot with a rocker sole and not put in inserts. In reality this part of the boot is probably identical to the other models which do have inserts.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
sah, the production boot doesn't have inserts and the website is actually in error there AFAIK from people posting on the interwebs who have been talking about it on TGR.
After all it is free
After all it is free
The 5/5 is the same boot as the "Beef" version with inserts, either way these things suck for fit and weight, coller way too low, wait for next year!!!!!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Thanks CH2O and meh, good to know.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
roscoeh wrote:
All interesting information.
Don't really think it has cleared it up but one thing I would like to know is could I buy tech/dynafit boot they would grip into my barons? (obviously not with the toe pin they use)
Yes.
ALL touring (and alpine) boots will work with your barons. Some of those will ALSO work with dynafits. Some also have changeable soles, touring/dynafit and DIN - so they can work in normal alpine bindings too.
Things like the Dynafit Titan, Technica Coschise and Black Diamond Factor work with all three, though you have to change the soles to work with the alpine bindings. Next season K2 will apparently release boots that work with all three with no need to change the soles.
You can get some rubber touring soles into alpine bindings too (someitmes involves grinding the sole a bit), but the friction can mess with the releases. No experience of it personally, think it's possible rather than reccommended.
If your current boots are fine, stick with them for now. If you need new boots anyway, you should at least consider getting something that can work with tech bindings in the future, if you expect to do more touring.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
