 Poster: A snowHead
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surprised the owner hasn't been on to comment... he appears to be registered on here...or at least someone by the name myRace is registered and pimping their services in buy /sell
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| spud wrote: |
I thought about joining one of the Gloucester Clubs back in September.
I never bothered in the end, as after doing a bit of research, their seemed to be a lot of 'Politics' between the two, plus i'm only back in the UK for 3/4 months a year.
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Politics between various factions of Gloucester skier are the reason there are multiple clubs there. Currently there are(were?) only three: Gloucester, Slalom Plus, Western Counties, but there have been more over the years.
I am a little  at S+ being in trouble with the management, as the key players in S+ were very much in with the new slope management only a month or so back.
From what I've (personally) seen, Mr M-HD is one of those persons who make decisions and dictates them to all affected with no discussion of the things he's not even considered. This has led to various disgruntled customers over recent months, but if overall he is attracting more paying customers than he is putting off then he's coming out on top - the question is whether this can be maintained after the busy autumn/winter period.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Politics and whose right and wrong aside, there are kids who should be training tonight and can't. Some of these young people have given up other sports and opportunities to commit to ski racing and this has been yanked from beneath them through no fault of their own. The owner will not discuss what has happened and quote what lessons these young people are supposed to learn is beyond me.
I spoke to another SLP parent this morning who said her daughter wanted to give up of she couldn't ski with her coach. Surely losing people from this minority sport and the feelings of these kids should be more important than egos or stupid rules, made by a man who has no experience of how to manage or work a hill safely.
Another professional in the skiing fraternity told me that his shop has stock which is illegal for racing and boot soles would need grinding down to conform. His view and others in the industry was that the owner was ruining the sport in the uk.
The health and safety of customers, staff, etc has to be paramount and to force too many people to train on one hill and given them a limited time to do so is ludicrous. Another example of poor h & s is the airbag. With no one with any experience or qualifications in this area it come as no surprise the shocking amount of injuries they have had. A serious leg break, 3 vertebrae, broken wrist and now two concussions due to people trying flips and hitting their heads on the jump. These last 2 were inches from breaking their necks and have happened within 2 wks of each other.
Yes an airbag can be dangerous, but interestingly enough the only guy in the UK who has an airbag that he takes on tour to centres has never had an injury. You would have to ask why gloucester can't do the same?
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thewhitestuff, If you are so worried about the safety at the slope, then surely it would be better if you took your kids elsewhere?
If the owner turned around and said...ok you can come back...would you?
As for bringing up his shop...why? I've been their, seen his stock and bought from it. Some good equipment and prices for this country. The staff were very happy and helpful too. You don't have to buy it.
I can understand you being angry/bitter etc
But who broke his rules? The parents or the kids?
I'm sorry, but your post just looks like a slur against the owner because he has pulled the plug. Not once have you mentioned the reasons why he did it.
No body wants the kids to miss out... but i suspect it's all the parents doing again. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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thewhitestuff, I did raise an eyebrow when I heard that Gloucester had bought an airbag. Bracknell bought an airbag last year but they already had a much larger selection of freestyle features before purchasing the airbag (including several kickers of different sizes which are all graded in difficulty eg green to black).
Gloucester doesn't have much of a collection of freestyle equipment. So the injuries on a jump like that are really not that surprising. Especially if there is not much coaching. It sounds like it is a bit of a free for all.
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Sorry thought that was mentioned. The 2 race clubs have to train on the same hill and have been given a limited time slot. This means the hill is overcrowded and unsafe. There has been no consultation with parents about this although we d happily work with it, if it were safe. Our coach with 27yrs experience deemed the training situation unsafe and as we were all there. We went onto the other slope where there were no skies to want up safely until the other slope was clear.
I mention the shop because some of the equipment they are selling to racers does not conform to fis regulations including helmets which is very dangerous.
Yes I am bitter, but more sad than anything else. I have invested thousands in my kids skiing have annual lift passes and probably yes I will have to find anther slope to train at my nearest being well over an hour away. This could all have been avoided with some careful consultation and management of timings so all could train safely.
It was our coaches choice to switch hills and she is banned as well. Some club members weren't even at training so their children weren't even there and they are banned too!!! It is hard to not be angry when it is so unfair
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spud, beat me to it....
thewhitestuff, you're not helping your cause, if you want this guy to fold with bad press regarding safety issues and equipment then you still lose, if it's that dangerous there then your kids safety should come first and you should look for an alternative even if it means more travel and less training...
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My kids have skied at the centre for many yrs without accident. The centre facilities are not unsafe, it's the management of the hill and procedures that have been implemented that have made it dangerous. Not all club members are in a position to change things in their life to get to another slope, inevitably they will leave the sport. Just so sad and such a waste!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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id love to hear the other side of the story.............. 
ps not sure equipment produced by large manufacturers is 'illegal' it might not conform for FIS races, but then most of the racers at Glos dont actually enter FIS races anyway......just my tuppence worth.
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spud, no offence (why do we always say that when we fear someone might take it?  ) but didn't we sort of cover a lot of that yesterday?
Just to reiterate something I said yesterday with regards your last point, the club as far as I am aware were willing to compromise and effectively fold into the 'new' format but were asking that those who wanted to could carry on at least for a time with their own coach and coaching format. This it would appear was unacceptable to Mr HD and led to the situation where the club was banned, if it was the parent's "doing" or the club's I'd suggest it was only because we were unwilling to simply accept what he wanted without some discussion.
From his point of view I presume our fault was not to simply accept his demands without quibble, after all it's his slope now. In return I'd ask why we should have simply doffed our caps and acceded to his demands without any attempt to discuss the matter given it was/is 'our' club that was effectively being wound up and our kids future in the sport that was at stake. I'd therefore suggest that if anything was the fault of the parents/club it was that we perhaps naively believed there might, as is normal in constructive relationships between human beings, be room for some negotiation about the form the amalgamation might take. As it turns out we were wrong about this and I think therein lies the nub of the matter.
Like CEM above I am puzzled by the fact there has been no reply from the 'other side' on here, I'm sure they must be aware of this thread by now and personally I think it would be useful if they put their point of view. Of course I'm biased in the matter and am firmly convinced that if they did so they'd expose themselves for what they are but perhaps they realise that too and haven't replied for precisely the same reason. Conversely if they came on and said "nope you're completely wrong, we're willing to meet compromise with compromise, let's talk" I'd be delighted to be proved wrong but on past form I really don't think that'll happen!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thewhitestuff, snowsportsfan, No offence taken 
I understand your frustrations... but unfortunately most people on here would need to know both sides of the story to make a judgement.
Also... by putting it on here...what does it achieve...or what do you want it to achieve?
Do you want the public to stop using Gloucester? If they do... The Slope folds...no good for anyone.
Until both sides of the story are heard then no one can give an informed opinion, or even if they did...what good would it do?
I feel for the kids and have experienced similar problems in the past at local Golf Clubs. It's never nice and just creates bad feeling and you can't please everyone. Especially those who have to conform to new rules under new management, when they feel it is 'theirs'.
Is there a vested interest in the coaching side of Gloucester Ski Club by the owner?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowsportsfan, No one's berating you on here... they just want both sides of the story.
And as i said in my earlier post... what are you trying to get, out of posting your frustrations on here?
What do you want fellow Snowheads to say or do?
Seems reasonable to me.
And yes the emotions are great... so please see the replys on here as friendly
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You know it makes sense.
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| spud wrote: |
| thewhitestuff, snowsportsfan, No offence taken |
Thanks and I hope none taken at my mostly tongue in cheek comments above either
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| I understand your frustrations... but unfortunately most people on here would need to know both sides of the story to make a judgement. |
Absolutely, that's why I think it would be good if they came on and told their side. I also think it'd do us a favour but that remains to be seen
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| Also... by putting it on here...what does it achieve...or what do you want it to achieve? |
As I said yesterday, personally I think people should be aware, if they end up in the same position at least they'll know it's not totally their fault! If slope representatives come on and prove me wrong and say they want to talk then all the better, I'd love to be wrong!
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| Do you want the public to stop using Gloucester? If they do... The Slope folds...no good for anyone. |
Nobody has called for a boycott and I definitely do not want the slope to fold. However if the behaviour we have experienced is replicated too often it might end with too many people not going there and the slope folding I fear.
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| Until both sides of the story are heard then no one can give an informed opinion, or even if they did...what good would it do? |
As above.
We're just airing our opinions at the end of the day I guess, we can't and don't want to force them on anyone else but it's cathartic at the very least and at least people will be aware of one side's point of view even if the other refuses to respond. Knowledge is power, even if it's only 50% of it
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I feel for the kids and have experienced similar problems in the past at local Golf Clubs. It's never nice and just creates bad feeling and you can't please everyone. Especially those who have to conform to new rules under new management, when they feel it is 'theirs'.
Is there a vested interest in the coaching side of Gloucester Ski Club by the owner? |
Not as far as I am aware but I surmise their system of coaching is closer to the one he wants to continue whereas S+ where all the kids at all levels train together rather than in separate performance groups is not the format he wants.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowsportsfan, The compromise if they do come on willing to talk...
The owners wants more of its slope back with regards to usage hours so wants you all to train together at the same time- the clubs are not happy with this due to overcrowding safety issues and all want to keep their own coaches...
The compromise...
Keep both clubs as they are - one lot trains on one session/week then the other lot do the other session/week, yes you will only be doing half the amount of training but at least it'll be safe training and also you are all still getting some training - the owner gets his extra slope time.
Or if the owner truly does want to merge both clubs and it's not so much to do with recovering slope hours (I have my doubts) then merge the clubs...split the training of this new club down the middle every other session/week as in the first option and just take what trainer you get.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 22-11-12 15:35; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a parent we'd love to speak/ hear the other side as well or at least meet with them, but so far they have refused. Why no one can answer because the major shareholder won't talk about anything that involves conflict or a difference of opinion. The centre has not even written to me ad an annual lift pass member telling me what has happened, why and how I can get my sizeable amount of money back. They told the coach to tell the parents, that can't be right can it?
I don't know what I hope to achieve, guess I'm venting because no one at the slope is prepared to discuss anything, it is frustrating and maybe I thought they might come on here and answer.
Apologies, did it make me feel better.....no and does it help my kids.....no.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As stated several times above we need to hear both sides of the story to be able to respond - as you seem to wish - to your complaints. That's not being "sanctimonious", or "taking the moral high ground". In fact, if any moral high ground round here is being occupied, it is by parents lamenting that innocent children are weeping in despair at having maliciously been denied access to a sport they love.
Possibly the owner will respond, or perhaps he has been advised by his lawyers not to (which wouldn't be entirely surprising given the allegations about his attitude to health and safety).
In the meantime, would one of the complainants like to take up my suggestion that they do a "devil's advocate" and have a go at producing the arguments and explanations that the owner might produce, were he to post here, or were he to agree to a meeting with those concerned.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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snowsportsfan, understandable...no need to apologise...it's all cool 
It does seem very strange that a Ski Slope owner dictates what coaching takes place in private run clubs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, thanks but I think you're doing a pretty excellent job as devil's advocate and if you read some of my posts since you last posted you'll notice I have had my moments too 
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As I understand we are not allowed to use the other slope because it is open to the public to allow them to ski without racers whizzing past. I understand that and I myself don't like it when they shoot past me. The message about the slope being available is not getting out there or users dont wish to ski at that time on a sun eve as at present the other slope remains empty of recreational skiers, which is why we used it.
The times were decided by ski centre manager without discussing with the coaches, who herself admits to not being a skier or having knowledge of hill protocols. This was done to maximise the hill for other users. A reasonable idea, which in principle just needs adjusting to allow for 2 separate time slots at present there is a 45 min overlap for all groups, which is too many.
We have said we will move our times back to avoid this overlap, but because we use the other hill we are banned.
It was an extreme situation and the first week of trying the system, it didn't work so rational people would look at how to make adjustments so it could all work, not just ban people!
Only time will tell what the future holds for glos, but scratch the surface and yr see the happy facade disappear and what's left is a staff team whose moral is at its lowest point. I am friends with many of the staff and know how they feel. An early post mentioned Slp coach was tight with MHD and you may be aware the coach of SLP is also head of ski school at centre. Things changed not because of clubs merging, but because she disagreed with the airbag and MHD descision to ban snowboarders from using the hill.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thewhitestuff,
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MHD descision to ban snowboarders from using the hill
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completely?
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^^^ if anyone doubts the above and it's obviously difficult to corroborate because staff members will not be willing to comment publicly I'd suggest anyone wishing to find out more find a staff member and contact them privately. I know some would be happy to give their point of view 'off the record'!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| cad99uk wrote: |
| completely? |
From one of the slopes (the extended one IIRC) yes completely, as in never to set foot on it or ride it ever again!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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No just on the new big hill. This has now been revoked, there was some grief on the fb page and lots of unhappy boarders complained. So were not the only folk to have been banned for no good cause. Once again when asked why ban boarders from new hill MHD declared it was his choice and his hill!!
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I hope new owner ties the mats down better than the old ones, having had a big crash from a lose mat (i.e ski going under one) racing there some years ago ripping the clips off my right boot.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well I guess they are starting to talk to some people...
A reply they've written to someones status posted on fb
Quote...
"Just to be clear – no individual children / persons have been banned from Gloucester Ski Centre AT ALL.
The only action taken is to BAN A SKI CLUB FROM TRAINING AT THE SLOPE DUE TO PERSISTENT ABUSE OF SLOPE RULES.
Any children wishing to Race train are urged to join GSC Race Academy or Western Counties Ski Club –both of these clubs are sanctioned to train at Gloucester Ski and Snowboard centre."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Good spot there gatecrasher, it must be an official statement because it's repeated in answer to a number of posts over there. There are a few comments over there on the issue but a lot of the ones from the club itself appear to have been removed over the last couple of days.
If anyone wants to see the page here's a link: http://www.facebook.com/GloucesterSki
Anyway, there's a reply (not mine) to the above statement on the FB page so read it before it's deleted if interested. Incidentally I can say categorically that as far as I'm concerned there were no "PERSISTENT ABUSE OF SLOPE RULES" (at least none that anyone other than the owners were aware of). I also know that many staff can corroborate this, see my comment above from yesterday.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowsportsfan wrote: |
| Incidentally I can say categorically that as far as I'm concerned there were no "PERSISTENT ABUSE OF SLOPE RULES". |
It would be interesting to know what they mean by PERSISTENT ABUSE and where the SLOPE RULES are defined and how they ensure that users are aware of such rules.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm just an interested onlooker but looking at FB they are getting some serious flack. Rorie Scott and Steve Angus, both full time instructors in France and Snowheads who started skiing there have waded in as has Easiski who I know has skied there too. Seriously bad publicity after all the razzamatazz of the opening only a couple of weeks ago.
But the owner just keeps churning out the same response, sounds like he doesn't give a sh|t tbh!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| RobW wrote: |
| It would be interesting to know what they mean by PERSISTENT ABUSE and where the SLOPE RULES are defined and how they ensure that users are aware of such rules. |
Yes, to me PERSISTENT ABUSE sounds like a very bad thing, as if for weeks people have been flouting rules and behaving badly so I'd also like to know exactly what this means.
From my point of view all that happened was a serious misunderstanding, the chronology has been gone into above, and to me any reasonable person would agree to a meeting and sort the issues out but sadly this hasn't happened. Unfortunately what typically happens at the moment is the centre gets called on the phone by the owner about issues he spots on camera, he's installed security cameras all over the centre (inside and out). Ostensibly a very sensible move because it has been subject to vandalism and burglary in the past. However, he apparently has screens at home and in his main company office which he seems to watch quite a lot when the centre is open if he's not on the premises and he often calls up as a result of what he sees on those screens. In the instance of this particular evening he had seen the kids from the club on the 'wrong' slope and called up, the story is continued on the Facebook page.
The Slope Rules are as they were before the ownership change except when they are changed by the new owner, as I understand it this typically means a phone call or if he's there a short conversation with the centre manager. The problem is that these are often either open to interpretation, as in the rule over which slope to use for warm up, or they are not communicated quickly enough to staff generally before he is on the phone again to pull people up on what they have or haven't done.
I hope I've communicated the difficulties of the situation without resorting to excessively prejudicial or pejorative language, I have to say it's difficult doing so particularly given recent events, what I have witnessed and because I am aware of how challenging the situation now is for many staff at the centre.
| Colin B wrote: |
I'm just an interested onlooker but looking at FB they are getting some serious flack. Rorie Scott and Steve Angus, both full time instructors in France and Snowheads who started skiing there have waded in as has Easiski who I know has skied there too. Seriously bad publicity after all the razzamatazz of the opening only a couple of weeks ago.
But the owner just keeps churning out the same response, sounds like he doesn't give a sh|t tbh! |
The people you mention, as you'll know all highly respected professionals in the snowsports industry, would I suspect not be making the comments they are if they thought there was any doubt as to the unfairness of what has happened.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just interested to now if you asked permission to use the empty slope that was left for recreational skiing/boarding?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowsportsfan, out of interest... why would it be so bad to join one of the two other clubs they are offering you guys?
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gatecrasher, as I said higher up the thread we had agreed to amalgamate but requested that we be able to choose our own coach if we wished to, different coaching systems in the 2 kids clubs (the other club caters for adult racers so has an older membership). Admittedly amalgamation wasn't our preferred option but we didn't view it as being "so bad", I presume now that this wasn't good enough hence recent developments but if he wanted us off the slope I don't think this was the best way to do it.
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nomadicanna, I wasn't there so can't comment personally but this is from the club's account of events posted on FB:
"The first Sunday of mixed club training and the times were altered from the original agreement, meaning the hill was overcrowded and unsafe. We informed the duty manager and said we were going to ski on the other empty slope for half an hour. At this point we weren't told by the duty manager that we weren't allowed. If staff don't know new procedures how do you expect parents or trainees to. Chantelle received a phone call from Mark telling her to get off the hill, she tried to explain the race hill was too busy and there could be an accident. He said 'I don't care if a child is injured and I don't care about health and safety!' Several parents overheard this as Mark was shouting so loudly!!!"
("Chantelle" is the club coach, "Mark" the new owner)
Hopefully that answers your question and I have spoken to parents who were there and they told me the same story.
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snowsportsfan, I understand that was the case then...but this post on fb was made only 9 hrs ago and well after the event that banned you from the slope...it would seem to me that this recent post is that of an olive branch!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not alot you can do by the looks of it. 
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gatecrasher, sorry it might be the late hour but I didn't quite get that - which post is an olive branch?
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FAQ
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