 Poster: A snowHead
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Classic comment...
Some French instructors have reacted angrily to the cancellation accusing the British of working illegally in France and one said they are bad teachers anyway and "ski like goats".
Better than smelling like goats... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| A common complaint from resort people is that us Brits buy slabs of beer etc and the weekly shop down in the valley and stay in every night consuming it all. Or we're holed up in fully catered chalets where, again, the stuff has been bought down at the hypermarket. Then there's the home made sarnie brigade to save dosh on the mountain. So the resort establishments feel like they are seeing relatively little custom compared to the hordes that show up. But then they need to consider affordability, service etc. |
I've heard that complaint quite a few times in Les Arcs. Self-drivers staying in self-catering accommodation, bringing all their own food from down the valley (or further afield), not going out to bars or restaurants. However, the complaints were about the French, not the Brits. Owner of the bar/cafe/pizzeria near my place in Les Arcs said if it wasn't for the Brits he couldn't keep his place going and would have closed it down a few years ago.
Maybe if there was a concerted effort at ensuring the best guest experience possible (recognising that different guests look for different things in a holiday) there would be less need to be quite so protectionist about defending your slice of perhaps an increasingly small cake. Why not shoot for a bigger cake in the first place...
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 20-11-12 11:47; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
ESF cancels London flashmob |
Could be a bluff.
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rob@rar, I've heard the same about the French, and have seen it for myself. They arrive with everything in a large estate car, and kids are often in another car with grandparents. Even lunch is cooked at the apartment (I can smell it if I go back at lunchtime myself),and if they eat on the mountain, it is often 'hors sac' with a plate of chips from the resto shared between them all. It may be the reason why the restos in my village are struggling, as the majority of the visitors are still French.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar,
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I've heard that complaint quite a few times in and around Vaison-la-Romaine. Self-drivers staying in self-catering accommodation, bringing all their own food [from down the valley] (or further afield), not going out to bars or restaurants. However, the complaints were about the Belgians, not the Brits. Owner of the bar/cafe/pizzeria near my place near Vaison said if it wasn't for the Brits he couldn't his place going and would have closed it down a few years ago.
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Edited to reflect my own experience. It's a gripe against various nationalities all over tourist France, I'm sure, but ime, the Brits are generally appreciated for their spending habits.
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| spud wrote: |
Classic comment...
Some French instructors have reacted angrily to the cancellation accusing the British of working illegally in France and one said they are bad teachers anyway and "ski like goats".
Better than smelling like goats... |
There are goats that ski? Now that's impressive.
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| Mr Marmot wrote: |
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
ESF cancels London flashmob |
Could be a bluff. |
You make a good point.
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Hells Bells, interesting. And sad. 
Of course - and I'm not suggesting this has happened in your area - if the locals deal with falling trade simply by putting prices up (this has happened in Courchevel and St Tropez, to mention just two places which have been cited in the French press) they have only themselves to blame.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Worth reading some of the comments on the ESF facebook page.
'The 'Rosbiffs' ski like goats, work illegally, steal our customers, apparantly we're not cool....'
Quote...
Bad news: the flashmob planned Thursday in London is cancelled :
The Union of the monitors in accordance with France mountains, made this decision this morning following a campaign anti-ski schools French that developed in England, led the questioning of a tour operator English before French courts for acts of ski guiding (in other words, illegal instruction). Given the context, the Union considers it preferable not to hold the Flash mob that could be deemed provocative, but hopes to be able to organize the next season... (Translated by Bing)
The biggest thing that stands out to me, reading through various articles, is that the French view 'Ski Hosting' as Ski Instructing.
Which imho, is an inditement on their own teaching skills. If follow my leader is classed as Ski Instructing in France then maybe they are right. Tbh... a lot of ESF lessons for School children looks like this from what i've witnessed.
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Famous statue of the Unknown Skiing Goat
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Who's up for posting messages on the ESF FB page?
Could be a lot of fun.... 
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 20-11-12 11:01; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Pedantica, I haven't noticed anything more than the usual small annual rise in prices. What is a problem for many is a greedy landlord that takes such a large rent that it starts to become impossible to make a profit. As said landlord also owns a hotel and restaurant, I'm not sure what her motives are, but anything remotely successful seems to move on to make their money elsewhere-the guy selling the 'flip-flops' and waffles at the Knife and Fork ran a very good restaurant and pizzeria in Serre Che for a couple of seasons.
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Hells Bells,
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the guy selling the 'flip-flops' and waffles at the Knife and Fork ran a very good restaurant and pizzeria in Serre Che for a couple of seasons.
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Crikey. Still, I guess that making enough money to live on, trumps taking a pride in one's work!
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You know it makes sense.
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Pedantica, sad indeed. And they get to be home in the evenings with their young family.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| 'The 'Rosbiffs' ski like goats, work illegally, steal our customers, apparantly we're not cool....' |
If there is one thing that stinks about the ESF's attitude is that it is assumed that the customers are their's by right. They have to work to get customers by creating a relevant, affordable and good quality offering.
Once they drive out other competition and non-competition like social hosting and uptake of lessons still doesn't increase I get the feeling that they'll then start lobbying about the general standard of holiday skiers and suggesting that an ESF approved certificate is mandatory for anyone to buy a lift pass. I have a certain sympathy with all those in the French tourist industry playing fairly by their domestic rules when UK TOs certainly fly as close to the limit as they can but everything I know about the ESF smacks of an organisation that puts themselves rather than their customers first.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, exactly right. The more experience I gain in the ski industry the more I think the offering to many guests needs a significant improvement. It's not about ESF competing with low cost ski hosting or smaller ski schools in 'their' resorts, it's about skiing competing with such things as family holidays to Disney World or cheap summer breaks to the Mediterranean. More and more tourists are price-sensitive and value-sensitivie. If you don't want to or can't cut the price you have to up the value. I don't see much evidence of either approach, unfortunately.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Who's up for posting messages on the ESF FB page?
Could be a lot of fun....
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Depending whether you ever want to pass a Eurotest. They have a list as Pike was told.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cynic, I don't .........
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I get the feeling that they'll then start lobbying about the general standard of holiday skiers and suggesting that an ESF approved certificate is mandatory for anyone to buy a lift pass.
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Now that is a very good idea we had not thought of that
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shouldn't that be Vanessa Paradiski 
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'FLASHPINT' CANCELLED
Since the 250 French ski instructors have now decided not to flash in Parliament Square, the Ecole de Booze Anglaise (EBA) have been left with no alternative but to cancel the pre-flash flashbash and 'flashpint' at the Red Lion in Whitehall.
The EBA extends its apologies to anyone disappointed by this decision.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 20-11-12 13:44; edited 1 time in total
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Someone ought to post this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIS_Alpine_Ski_World_Cup on the ESF FB page. Not an awful lot of mentions of France, especially not recently, and I guess if you took out JCK's results they'd be very few indeed. So they're not actually that good at all
Perhaps they need better instructors !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Comedy Goldsmith,
Why? Surely we should prepare for the inevitable invasion 
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| Quote: |
A common complaint from resort people is that us Brits buy slabs of beer etc and the weekly shop down in the valley and stay in every night consuming it all. Or we're holed up in fully catered chalets where, again, the stuff has been bought down at the hypermarket. Then there's the home made sarnie brigade to save dosh on the mountain. So the resort establishments feel like they are seeing relatively little custom compared to the hordes that show up. But then they need to consider affordability, service etc.
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To bloody true, when you look at some of the prices charged in France. I have no great wish to return to the appt. to cook at lunchtime when we are in France and to lose skiing time, but with four to feed each day it's not a cheap exercise to eat on the moutain in the two big French resorts that we have stayed in. I already try to ski on a bit of budget and 80E a day in food I can't sustain more than once or twice. When beer or even a soft drink can be as much as 7E + and most days just a main course is 13E for a plat du jour, then you can easily do in 80E a day feeding 4 people a reasonable meal on the mountain. Contrast that with when we stayed in Austria this year, and I reckonned I could feed the 4 of us for not a lot of cash more than feeding one person on the mountain in France. In Austria we ate on the hill ever day and it's being able to stay out all day and enjoy the hospitality of the on hill huts and restaurants that has been a huge choice indicator for us returning next year. IMHO pushing up the prices to make a quick buck can be very counter productive. When prices are reasonable, and I take into account the logistics involved, I will willingly pay them. I must admit in France I begrudge every penny that I think is over the odds cost wise. If Austrians can make a living out of it, then why can't France?
I must admit that it doesn't bother me skiing wise where I ski - it's like the photos, seen one snowy moutain, seen them all. I'd prefer to ski in France, it's a damn sight easier to get to and significantly closer by car - and that is a consideration, but that closeness doesn't weigh enough when it comes to being able to afford to go and the nicer holiday I had not having to be close enough to the appt the whole time to return for lunch in Austria.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 20-11-12 14:42; edited 3 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, +1
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We have to remember that skiing was always a rich mans sport.
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Megamum, +1.
Just vote with your feet - go to A.U.S.T.R.I.A. After a couple of seasons without high spending Brits, the French prices will collapse. 
P.S. I love France, and Austria, but French hillside beer prices are taking le pissoir, not to mention the outrageous cost of a malignant Panini.
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You know it makes sense.
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I just roll around with laughter when I see holiday makers, arriving for their weeks holiday to the chalet that is rented out behind us, lugging case after case of mineral water up the snowy, icy steps, when we have the most pure, cold (Swiss) alpine water straight from the tap. This on top of all the other groceries bought in the car.
| Quote: |
A common complaint from resort people is that us Brits buy slabs of beer etc and the weekly shop down in the valley and stay in every night consuming it all. Or we're holed up in fully catered chalets where, again, the stuff has been bought down at the hypermarket. Then there's the home made sarnie brigade to save dosh on the mountain. So the resort establishments feel like they are seeing relatively little custom compared to the hordes that show up. But then they need to consider affordability, service etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Swissie, Tap water was fine for me in Switzerland as it is also in France and Austria.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
'FLASHPINT' CANCELLED
Since the 250 French ski instructors have now decided not to flash in Parliament Square, the Ecole de Booze Anglaise (EBA) have been left with no alternative but to cancel the pre-flash flashbash and 'flashpint' at the Red Lion in Whitehall.
The EBA extends its apologies to anyone disappointed by this decision. |
It ain't over 'til the fat lady flashes. There is always the possibility that saying they have cancelled the event is just a ruse. After all, that would be the fast way to ensure a smooth running event and make it all the more unplanned and spontaneous-looking. I'll still be here in my pyjamas but don't be surprised if they sneak in under the radar.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Axsman, Sing it!!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Cynic wrote: |
| Quote: |
I get the feeling that they'll then start lobbying about the general standard of holiday skiers and suggesting that an ESF approved certificate is mandatory for anyone to buy a lift pass.
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Now that is a very good idea we had not thought of that |
Ermmmmm...think they did... 
I posted this in the 'Bloody French' thread...
Quote...
There is an easy solution to all this....
Ski Resorts should make it law, that everyone who skis or boards and uses the lifts, should have had at least one lesson, With the Ski School and receive a certificate ( which you would have to show when buying lift pass ), showing that they have the knowledge of the mountain code and know how to stop.
Plus I wouldn't allow anyone on the mountain without appropriate Insurance.
If this Court case really is about safety and being responsible and not about loss of earnings, then Ski Resorts and Ski Schools should be trying to enforce this type of safety system.'
I've thought this for years...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spud, in the ideal world, yes, I'd like those around me to know what they are doing but such a measure would kill the sport.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| ... when we stayed in Austria this year, and I reckonned I could feed the 4 of us for not a lot of cash more than feeding one person on the mountain in France. |
Where in Austria? Are you sure you're comparing like with like? When I compare prices that I might pay in Les Arcs with some of the places I've eaten in around the Sella Ronda or in the Tux valley in Austria (or Niseko in Japan, for that matter if we just compare last season) there is not a huge difference in price, although I definitely feel I'm getting better VFM in the Dolomites because the food seems to be a higher standard. Big restaurant on the piste in a major resort is always going to be more expensive than a little place tucked out of the way in a small village.
People always say Courchevel is ruinously expensive, and so it can be if you want to spend a lot, but one of my favourite places to eat is the Petite Auberge pizzeria in C1650. It's a short walk from the piste and when I ate there you could get a huge and excellent pizza for about €11 and a small carafe of the local red wine for a few €s more. If you wanted a snack lunch you could get a toasted panini from the snack bar in the Forum in the centre of 1850 for just a few €s.
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Always drank the tap water in France!!
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| spud, in the ideal world, yes, I'd like those around me to know what they are doing but such a measure would kill the sport. |
So it is about money and not safety?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| A common complaint from resort people is that us Brits buy slabs of beer etc and the weekly shop down in the valley and stay in every night consuming it all. Or we're holed up in fully catered chalets where, again, the stuff has been bought down at the hypermarket. Then there's the home made sarnie brigade to save dosh on the mountain. So the resort establishments feel like they are seeing relatively little custom compared to the hordes that show up. But then they need to consider affordability, service etc. |
I've heard that complaint quite a few times in Les Arcs. Self-drivers staying in self-catering accommodation, bringing all their own food from down the valley (or further afield), not going out to bars or restaurants. However, the complaints were about the French, not the Brits. Owner of the bar/cafe/pizzeria near my place in Les Arcs said if it wasn't for the Brits he couldn't keep his place going and would have closed it down a few years ago.
Maybe if there was a concerted effort at ensuring the best guest experience possible (recognising that different guests look for different things in a holiday) there would be less need to be quite so protectionist about defending your slice of perhaps an increasingly small cake. Why not shoot for a bigger cake in the first place... |
Same over our side of the mountain in 1950, Rob. The move by P&V to retain the risk themselves, and sell more independent holidays - through their highly cost-effective web sales channel as opposed to selling on to TOs, and giving them margin off rack-rate - has changed the balance of guest's nationalities fairly considerably over the past three years, and much to the chagrin of many of the commercants in the village.
But having shop owners (and their respective landlords) to spot the opportunities that come with a change as opposed to trying to fight it, is a slow process.
Although, as one of them did say to me: "if commercants aren't complaining... they're probably dead".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Agree that a license-to-slide would kill any resort that implemented a blanket ban... but, consider the following...
Would people take a series of lessons on mountain safety, demonstrable technique, and (for want of a better word) ettiquette to earn an 'advanced mountain user' badge? Offering, for example, a discount on future lift passes, priority lift queuing, free authorised guiding services etc...
Give people a shiny bead and the whiff of a carrot and they'll often cooperate.
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Richard_Sideways, 25% discount in mountain eateries.......................
Personally speaking if anyone can get a shot at an eating business in one of these Big French resorts and start offering good wholesome food at a realistic price I reckon you would be sitting on a Gold mine.
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FAQ
