Megamum, Note that there is always over-rotation on the end of the turn, brought about by the lack of aft turn radius behind the rear binding. That'll be because there is no ski behind the rear binding.
Further to that.................. there is no "carving" of the ski because there is a false turn radius due to no rear ski. .............. look at the angular sliding/skidding of the skiers' feet.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 13-11-12 13:51; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum wrote:
For Tom from Austria, this will be old news, and almost certainly pre-dates his new wing concept, but when I looked up the Rax skis I found this Utube footage - they certainly look fun skiable items, they must be on a par with snow blades. The only thing that does seem evident from the film is that sometimes the skiers seem a little in the back seat, but the guys seem to be having fun and surely that is what skiing is about.
You`ve got it, Megamum! This old video shows the old generation of RaxSki - the wings were not yet invented.
Czech ski acrobats execute quick turns by sharp lifting the ski tips. This technique is NOT required for actual
RaxSki generation with wings.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I was just thinking about these the other day. How's sales?
Just my thought....................
Hey, the "RaxSki with Wings" has just been invented this year! We are in the reality here, skimastaaah, not in a computer game.
Do not expect miracles. But we have sold aroud 1,000 pairs of the first generation RaxSki (no wings, just rear fins), even to Scottland
http://www.aviemoreski.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=287110
Australia, Pamir(Kirgizia) etc
As the next I would like to send a present to all snowheads and to the admin.
The present is .... the blue sky
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tom from Austria, Yikes.......... more 30 year old Salomon bindings slapped on half a 1995 Fischer Revolution.
I'm not buying this Tommy. Metaphorically, nor metaphysically.
Tom from Austria, Yikes.......... more 30 year old Salomon bindings slapped on half a 1995 Fischer Revolution.
I'm not buying this Tommy. Metaphorically, nor metaphysically.
Very cutting edge!
We are not selling Salomon bindings - not even metamorphically.
What we are selling is the the concept of wings (and rear fins)
that should ignite a new life on ski slopes.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm impressed you've done 1000 units of the old ones. Well done.
Was that to shops, or punters, or to collectors, or...? Anyone ever seen a pair being used in the wild?!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Tom from Austria,
hey there are lots of people here at varying levels, if you are confident in the product how about supplying a couple of pairs for various snowheads to try out and provide some feedback. If the product is that good what have you got to lose?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Mr Piehole wrote:
I'm impressed you've done 1000 units of the old ones. Well done.
Was that to shops, or punters, or to collectors, or...? Anyone ever seen a pair being used in the wild?!
Most of them on internet, the rest directly on the piste or during some exhibition like Ski&Snowboard Show in Olympia Hall 2009 and 2010
or ISPO Munich 2010 and 2011.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Tom from Austria, Do I have to cut my skis in half to use these wingy-thingies?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
Most of them on internet, the rest directly on the piste or during some exhibition
Yes, but to whom, was the question - shops/punters/collectors/snowbladers/Mitt Romney/etc.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skimastaaah wrote:
Tom from Austria, Do I have to cut my skis in half to use these wingy-thingies?
No, cut them in 3 pieces, it helps tremendously.
Dear snowheads, next two days are Rax test days. We have no internet there, just snow and sun
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Lizzard wrote:
Quote:
Most of them on internet, the rest directly on the piste or during some exhibition
Yes, but to whom, was the question - shops/punters/collectors/snowbladers/Mitt Romney/etc.
With two exceptions we have sold RaxSkis to end users, Lizzard.
Ok Snowheads, I am back in computer civilization again
The pic was shot in a gorge on the Rax-plateau yesterday.
The dark spot at the bottom is the lower end of the "firn"snow-field coming from the right side (not visible).
Well, the "snow" had the hardness of a skate ground as it has been apparently raining and freezing here in last days.
The ski on the pic (model Rocker/Wings) was mostly carving two thin grooves (by the wing and the rear side-fin) in the ice.
In about 3 hours of testing the ski has never skidded aside by more than few centimeters.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Thu 15-11-12 12:10; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Tom from Austria, maybe you could bring some sets to a SH's bash one day for folks to test?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Tom from Austria, Maybe I'm just guessing here but looking at all the pretty pics of sawn off skis it looks like you have some older model skis, cut them with a V shape at the rear, then place bindings about half way down the new shortened ski length, then add on your "wings" module underfoot infront of the rear bindings.
Yikes, ......... does that mean the new forward position of the bindings relative to the now shortened ski length means the bindings are drilled/screwed into a much thinner part of the ski and therefore not as "anchored" into a reinforced section meant for the mounting of bindings?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just out of interest, what do you do when you don't want to carve?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Tom from Austria, "..... cut them into 3 pieces...." ........????????
Could you show this pictorally/with diagrams please. I've a little background in sports mechanics and all I'm seeing from your pictures are 4, possibly 5, mock-ups that show sawn-off-skis of various ages, various lengths, with various add-on wings and fins, either superimposed on re-positioned bindings, or remounted on separate parts of skis that are then superimposed/mounted one on the other.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimastaaah wrote:
Tom from Austria, Maybe I'm just guessing here but looking at all the pretty pics of sawn off skis it looks like you have some older model skis, cut them with a V shape at the rear, then place bindings about half way down the new shortened ski length, then add on your "wings" module underfoot infront of the rear bindings.
Yikes, ......... does that mean the new forward position of the bindings relative to the now shortened ski length means the bindings are drilled/screwed into a much thinner part of the ski and therefore not as "anchored" into a reinforced section meant for the mounting of bindings?
The wings mounted on a down-hill ski are so new that the fabricated version of ski/wings has appeared just in these days.
The ski base is our old model Rocker /see www.raxski.com/ and the wings are cast as one aluminium piece in a newly developed mould.
Wings are mounted on the ski base like a carve-plate.
In fact, the last picture published today shows this model "Rocker with Wings". The releasing binding is mounted on the ski the same way as with old model "Rocker" - i.e. screwed in aluminium rear brackets and in the original Tyrolia front-plate. The latter is field-adjustable by hand.
Just out of interest, what do you do when you don't want to carve?
You do just nothing!
(If you do not twist the feet, that is if the torque is zero, the ski with fins/wings will run straigt. This is just the opposite to today`s side-cut ski
which can start a turn on a bump even if you do not await it.)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tom from Austria wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Just out of interest, what do you do when you don't want to carve?
You do just nothing!
(If you do not twist the feet, that is if the torque is zero, the ski with fins/wings will run straigt. This is just the opposite to today`s side-cut ski
which can start a turn on a bump even if you do not await it.)
So these skis can only turn by carving? No other way of steering them?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I am convinced that Austrian Tom has no real idea of how a ski works.
These are not skis.
And I don't think they look that much fun either.
Did you see how those Czech guys feet were vibrating?
Yeuchhh!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Zero-G, Or a very tedious free advert thread.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Zero-G, I agree; this has got to be a troll...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Part of me keeps thinking how people also laughed at Henry Ford... If these things are for real, they look like they're only really good for ice.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I suppose people also laughed at the first tri-fin surfboards. But still, ice.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Zero-G, P10DW, CathS,
Tom from Austria, actually exists, I've even been to a ski show and seen him with the skis. They do physically exist. Every industry needs a wildcard, Tom is one from the ski industry. I've never tried his product, I'm no skier, but out of sheer bloody open-mindedness I would do so if I had an opportunity. IMO he celebrates the fun in the ski industry and I think he is genuinely passionate about his ideas. I can't see that that is anything to fault a person on IMO.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Megamum, I agree it's nice to see innovation, but you're also a skier who likes to know what technique is what, much like me. I simply can't get my head around how these skis work other than being extremely limited in what they can do. I've never understood the fins, and these wings are just as perplexing to me. I'd really love to see some videos of a range of different skiing with the Rax skis: carved and skidded short turns, carved longs, shorts and longs in powder snow, spring slush, winter ice, etc.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar, I agree, I look at the skis particularly these wings and feel that they look as though they are more akin to skiing on a set of rails, rather like the the two sets of inline wheels on a traditional set of roller skates, or indeed those ice skates toddlers try out by strapping them to their shoes which have two parallel blades, as such arcs looks difficult to achieve by the ski naturally, I think any curves in the snow would have to be induced in ways other than those we learn on traditional skis. In fact are Tom's Raxs sufficiently different from traditional skis to even be considered as skis?
After all, blades are seen as different from full skis and have thier own methods, advantages, and disadvantages, boards are def. different. Would the traditional skiing world view Tom's products in a different light if they were not treated as something trying to be a skis, but were rather something different in their own right?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Megamum wrote:
After all, blades are seen as different from full skis and have thier own methods, advantages, and disadvantages, boards are def. different.
I don't see blades as different to skis, just a bit shorter and easier to get away with bad habits than regular size skis. Snowboards are different in terms of your stance, but the basic interaction between the board and the snow is pretty similar to how skis interact with snow. I see the Rax skis being exactly the same as blades - in fact, in that video you linked to the fins on the back of the skis seem to be doing almost nothing at all.
I'm confused about the wings. Some of my questions are:
Can you alter the shape of the turn when the wing is carving in the snow? If you tip the ski to a higher edge angle will the wing carve a tighter line?
Does the wing engage with the snow the moment that the skis are tipped up from being completely flat? What would you do if you wanted to skid the skis because you're on terrain which is too steep to carve on as the speeds would be too high?
What happens if you're in soft snow, such as spring slush or fresh powder? Will the ski still work if the wings don't have firm snow to grip in to?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It's like a computer spaceship racing game. Wipeout, or F-Zero. The wings are like the airbrakes (on the shoulder buttons, unless you've done something silly in the options) that pull you round corners super fast.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Can they side-slip? Can you jump turn on them in a steep, narrow couloir?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Can they side-slip?
That's an interesting question - I'd be quite lost on a set of skis that I couldn't side slip on, and/or scrub off some of the height on a traverse across a steep slope by a bit of side slip tied in with my motion forwards.
...
A)Can you alter the shape of the turn when the wing is carving in the snow? If you tip the ski to a higher edge angle will the wing carve a tighter line?
B)Does the wing engage with the snow the moment that the skis are tipped up from being completely flat? What would you do if you wanted to skid the skis because you're on terrain which is too steep to carve on as the speeds would be too high?
C)What happens if you're in soft snow, such as spring slush or fresh powder? Will the ski still work if the wings don't have firm snow to grip in to?
A) Yes, definitely yes, that is why wings were invented. So each consecutive turn can have different radius, e.g 15m, 35m, 7m, 5m, 40m, ...
Of course, the centrifugal force, your speed and the snow surface must allow such tight curves.
Moreover, while executing a single turn you can intentionally modify its instantaneous radius. How? By modifying the torque caused by your legs.
B) As a prerequisit for skidding aside, the wing must be released from its groove in the snow or ice. This can be achieved by less inclination of the body, causing less edging or even putting ski on the full running base. At that moment the rider must rotate the ski in such a way that it is skidding.
C) Wings are not efficient in powder yet they do not disturb. We can recommend the RaxSki for powder if and only if it has got rear fins, too.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tom from Austria, Sawn off skis, lost ski length/radius, bindings mounted on un-reinforced ski section, pretty little wings.
Tom from Austria, thanks for those answers, much appreciated. A few further comments:
Quote:
A) Yes, definitely yes, that is why wings were invented. So each consecutive turn can have different radius, e.g 15m, 35m, 7m, 5m, 40m, ...
What do you have to do to ski a carved turn with those different radii? On a regular ski you can tip it to a bigger edge angle and it will carve a tighter turn. How does the wing achieve the same outcome? Does pushing the wing further in to the snow make it carve a tighter turn?
Quote:
...while executing a single turn you can intentionally modify its instantaneous radius. How? By modifying the torque caused by your legs.
If you are applying a torque (twisting force) to your skis you are no longer carving. I was particularly interested in how you vary the turn shape of a carved turn.
Quote:
B) As a prerequisit for skidding aside, the wing must be released from its groove in the snow or ice.
Does the ski need to be completely flat in order to twist it if you are on firm snow? I'm trying to understand how much the wing grips the snow, and how quickly it engages the snow when you begin to tip the ski.
Quote:
C) Wings are not efficient in powder yet they do not disturb.
If the wings don't bring any advantage to skiing in powder (and presumably on piste in soft or slushy snow) wouldn't it be better to be on a ski of standard length to make fore/aft balance easier to achieve and to stop the ski sinking uncontrollably in to the powder?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Tom from Austria,
Why not send a pair(or 5) to us at The Snow Centre in Hemel (UK) we have around 120 instructors in our ski school. Rob runs clinics here with Inside Out.
I'l happily collate feedback from people and provide you with a surmmary.
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar, There's a reason that a ski has a shape, a sidecut, length, tortional stiffness, longditudinal flex and a host of other "qualities". Horses for courses you might say. (I'm well aware you are well conversant with all of these factors.)
Tom's wingy-thingies are placed on a cut off section of a pair of skis. His last picture shows a heel piece on top of a rear wing on top of the cut off ski section.
I'm really at a loss to see how a shortened ski can effectively "carve" turns of 5m - 40m. I can see than the wing adaptation can "cut" into a snow surface, and depending on the angulation and cut depth of the wing that varying turn radii may be effected, but this is not true "carving" as such where the qualities of the ski need to be mechanically utilised.
Maybe a fun gadget for some, but........... I still remain unconvinced.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
skimastaaah wrote:
Maybe a fun gadget for some ...
Agreed. I kind of think that these Rax skis are a bit like a unicycle: a bit of fun and maybe tricky to master, but if you also want to do a bit of MTB and perhaps cycle to work then you'd buy a different kind of bike. Definitely a one-trick pony, if I can mix my metaphors.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
