 Poster: A snowHead
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I know there should be no difference between a probe or shovel for a man or woman, but knowing my better half as I do if I get her a probe and shovel that is too heavy it will never be in ten bag and thereby defeats the objective.
I'm looking for a good but light set-up, my initial thoughts are the Mammut super light and ortovox all pfa, but I'm a bit concerned that the M SL looks like it doesn't have an extendable handle and if its needed leverage will be lost.
Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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None of them are particularly heavy and if she doesn't carry it she doesn't go. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| meh wrote: |
| None of them are particularly heavy |
You can save as much as 150g, if you're prepared to have a teeny little handle and a crappy plastic blade instead of a decent slice of metal!
| meh wrote: |
| if she doesn't carry it she doesn't go |
This. Does she really feel your life is worth less than the weight of a bottle of water?
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They're all pretty light. I don't notice the weight of mine in my pack. She may be less inclined to carry it if the handle is too long and the shovel doesn't fit neatly into her pack. I'd go for an aluminium shovel rather than poly, personally.
And what meh said, no shovel no go (unless your life insurance promises a handsome payout).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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May seem obvious but whatever you do make sure you get a shovel that is solid enough. Can't remember which author its by but there's an interesting paper written on a study of shovels which details, rather alarmingly, that many commercially available shovels brake whilst trying to dig out people caught in an avalanche. I'm certainly happier when i can trust my equipment even if it is a bit of a trade off in terms of weight. But yeah, i'd only let your better half join you if she has the correct equipment and more importantly, knows how to use it!!!
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I'd be interested in reading that paper Andy06, worrying 
Metal for sure, i know how hard it is to eat pie and peas with a plastic fork...
i know the weight difference is negligible, but the packing and fitting in a smaller pack will make a difference. I'll probably pick up the mammut as they seem to produce good kit in this area? My first shovel (deploy 7) could be used on a building site, works well but takes up most of a backpack given its bowed shape.
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If you want a light probe, what about a carbon one? Carbon is an excellent probe material- light, strong, low thermal conductivity. They're the lightest probes you'll find. Both Ortovox and BCA do good quality varieties.
With regard to the shovels, we would generally not recommend a plastic blade, as they deform too easily in hard avalanche snow. We only stock one on our website, and that's really only for people who want to go ultralight, with the view that something is better than nothing. The best ones are T6 heat-tempered aluminium. The BCA ones are very good in this respect- aircraft grade aluminium that's been heat tempered to that degree. Some of the smaller aluminium shovels are quite light.
Hope that helps.
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Mt, the paper is:
Shovels That Span the Divide Between Heaven and Hell
By Manuel Genswein and Ragnhild Eide
Published in the Avalanche Journal.
Worth a read, quite sobering, although many of the shovels tested are obsolete now or have been significantly upgraded in the meantime.
A good shovel is massively important- when you need it, you really need it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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evski, ok, i think i'll pick up a BCA B1 Extendable Avalanche Shovel from you.
What is the difference between the Ortovox 240+ Carbon Pro pfa Avalanche Probe and the Ortovox 240 Carbon pfa Avalanche Probe?
That report/test makes for sobering reading. The models aren't that old and although the shovels might have been upgraded the names are mainly the same!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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While you are there consider a shovel with a "hoe" feature like the K 2 rescue shovel, the Ortovox Kodiak or the BCA equivalent as well. I' m getting one of those and mrs is getting my ally BCA shovel.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mt, On the Mammut Super Lite you are correct it does not have a extending handle, the Alugator Light does plus it folds down very small, smaller than others on the market and if she is tight on space in her backpack then this is a much better option.
The lightest Probes are the carbon ones, but these are more money.
Make sure you get a 240 probe anything under this is not very usable in a real situation.
The Carbon Pro is a heavy version of the normal carbon, its stronger but is 260g comapred to 190g, you can add sections to the Pro model as well.
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Mt, I have a brand new Ortovox Economy shovel (blue plastic blade) that I bought last season and have never used it or am likely to, its sitting in my loft. I bought it to take with me in the car for clearing snow off the roof of the car when left in resort after a week when it gets buried. If you want it you can have it for the "right price", PM me if interested, I see you are in Leeds, I'm local too so can drop it off? It meets all your criteria apart from the fact its a plastic blade, its up to you.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mt wrote: |
evski, ok, i think i'll pick up a BCA B1 Extendable Avalanche Shovel from you.
What is the difference between the Ortovox 240+ Carbon Pro pfa Avalanche Probe and the Ortovox 240 Carbon pfa Avalanche Probe?
That report/test makes for sobering reading. The models aren't that old and although the shovels might have been upgraded the names are mainly the same!! |
Good choice. Remember to drop us an email after purchase, and we'll take the 10% discount off your card straight away.
Yes, as stated above, the main difference is that the Pro is a little thicker. If you are interested in carbon probes, I'll just point out that we have an offer on the BCA version (see front page of website). I'll apply the snowheads discount on top of that too, since it's you 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mt,
Out of interest, after reading that report on shovels, and doing your research as you have,
why would you go for the B1 instead of the B52 considering this info regarding handles.
"This is the least efficient and least ergonomic handle version.
Newer versions of the T-shaped handles with more
rounding show fewer problems, except for rescuers
with small hands, where the entire handle is too big
and does not allow a proper grip any more."
For the sake of an extra tenner, I just don't understand.
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Poster: A snowHead
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jimmjimm, i agree with the handle thing, but the b52 looks quite big and snow can be heavier and digging, more tiring, than we imagine. So i'd prefer to get her a smaller shovel so at least she gives up and counts the dollars after at least five minutes effort..... 
Markymark29, i appreciate the offer but i'm not sure about the plastic blade thing, i'd keep it for digging out the motor if we get any snow this year. If we do i'm boot packing up any near by hill and laying some lines down. I've missed out three times and this year i'm definitely getting some local lines in.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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livetoski, thanks for the pro info, i've got to remember to start rereading a thread as i return to it!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mt, no problems
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Might be a bit late, but there this review of a BCA B2 shovel (which looks very similar in design to the B1) on tgr that's less than complimentary: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/237994-BCA-Bomber-Shovel-review-fail
This issues may of course have been resolved by now.
I have a Mammut Alugator Light, which is a nice piece of kit. I picked it over others for the slightly unconventional reason that it has a couple of holes through the centre of the blade that make it a little easier to throw a sling though and use as a deadman anchor; handy for snow camping, etc. Doubt that'll be much of a selling point for others, though 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Serriadh, yes, this issue was resolved. BCA picked up on this and now the shovels have been adapted to prevent the problem. They're a very responsible company IMO and have a strong reputation that they want to uphold. I think you can see this if you read through to the end of the TGR post, where everybody ends up happy.
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Mt, Black Diamond Deploy 3 is small, light and metal
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Try digging anything with these lightweight shovels and then you'll be thankful for a decent one.
Even if you just play at digging your chalet out, you'll know the difference between a decent one and a useless one.
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