meh, But for amateur "fun" filming this is good enough for the average outdoor enthusiast, without breaking the bank.
Specialman, .... and if I were to say that I got mine for less than £50 BNIB, plus warranty, would the salesman have clinched it for you?
(Just got to know where to look!!)
okay we'll pause our protacted discussion and see if we can provide some more specific guidance, so..
What's your budget?
Do you want to use it just for Snowsports or other stuff, if other stuff what other stuff?
Do you want any other features lifi wifi connectivity, screen etc?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
One of the big pluses of my Contour HD is the battery is actually a really common nokia mobile battery which costs pence on ebay, the other is that when the kids want it it is nice and low profile on their goggle strap and far less likley to get a battering when they crash, go into the trees or something equally daft than a helmet mounted gopro. Quality is certainly plenty good enough for what we want!
The BBC and most other media organisations use Go Pro's, mine are brilliant and some of the post production you can do with a high end MAC and a lot of time (and a very understanding other half) are brilliant.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Swissie, Check out the link in my previous post, it could be worth watching if you're an ebay fan. The "Gaoki" HD Sports camera is a de-badged Delkin Wingman HD camera. "Gaoki" is the brand name used to sell on the factory over-runs for the Chinese Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), it's the same item as the Delkin which is £179 upwards. No silly all-singing-all-dancing-techy-stuff, just good quality, high spec, push button simplicity. With a 8Gb micro SD card included this little piece of kit is a lo-budget-hi-spec option that won't break the bank. And you can get all the accessories you want from off ebay. I got a 360 degree suction mount for the screw in point £1.98 including delivery.......... bargain.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Can I join in with a suggestion request? – I’ve been following this thread with interest as I’d like to get a camera in the next month or so
I don’t already have one, so no worries about upgrading
I want something no-fuss when it comes to recording, i.e. choose a mode, press start
I want good quality shots with minimum effort on my part
I won’t be doing a massive amount of editing beyond cutting clips (I might get hooked though, and if I do, computer power not a concern)
Good battery life and filming capacity
Budget not too much of a concern (within reason!)
Really don’t care what it looks like, just the performance, but the more compact the better
It’ll be used for skiing, scuba, kayaking, and general fun and messing about (Ultimate Frisbee?, biking (motor as well as pedal once I get around to sorting a test/licence), silly drinking games at wine festivals, jumping around at music festivals etc)
Based on that, I was set on the new GoPro black – I’m ok with the cost (though cheaper would be nicer, and I’m annoyed about the mark-up compared to the US), and is anything else quite as solid and indestructible with minimum fuss? Am I missing something?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
They are an earlier version of the Drift HD, but shoot 1080p HD, and 720 at 60fps. The image quality is as good as a GoPro (although I'm not familiar with the newest GoPro versions, so can't comment on them).
The remote is handy - it has a wrist or bag strap, and has big buttons that are easy to use in gloves. You don't end up with that couple of seconds of footage of your face turning on the camera in every clip - this is surprisingly useful, as it means your clips are much easier to identify by thumbnails when you have them in your computer for editing, rather than all the thumbnails being a picture of the palm of your glove. The lens is rotatable, so no matter how you have it mounted, you can adjust it easily to level the image - this is a surprisingly useful feature in practice. There's also a small LCD screen so you can line things up roughly and play them back on the lifts. Again, this saves a lot of wasted footage.
It's incredibly easy to use, and the picture quality is great.
Here are a couple of videos from it from this January. I mostly shot in 720p to save space, and I only made cuts and a few naff transitions, no colour grading or manipulation of the original image quality.
Can I join in with a suggestion request? – I’ve been following this thread with interest as I’d like to get a camera in the next month or so
I want something no-fuss when it comes to recording, i.e. choose a mode, press start
That's pretty much all of them.
I want good quality shots with minimum effort on my part
Definitely something this generation then.
I won’t be doing a massive amount of editing beyond cutting clips (I might get hooked though, and if I do, computer power not a concern)
All of them again.
Good battery life and filming capacity
Any latest gen model and the latter is more a function of memory card size.
Budget not too much of a concern (within reason!)
Gold plated!
Really don’t care what it looks like, just the performance, but the more compact the better
It’ll be used for skiing, scuba, kayaking, and general fun and messing about (Ultimate Frisbee?, biking (motor as well as pedal once I get around to sorting a test/licence), silly drinking games at wine festivals, jumping around at music festivals etc)
I'd grab either the Black version of the GoPro or a secondhand HD2. The former because it's not that much more expensive than the Silver factoring in buying the wifi remote as well which comes as standard with the Black cameras. The latter for a budget conscious choice which is probably completely ample for your needs although is going to suffer a bit in low light in comparison.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
fixx, Just do a little research and then jump in! Many of the pricier options (eg GoPro) appear a tad over priced. I've even compared build quality of my debadged Delkin with a GoPro and there's not much in it. If you want a professional quality then go for the GoPro, otherwise meh is spot on.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I rate my contour based on ease of use, and compactness. I'd recommend 100% to others, never used a Go Pro but I dont believe they are as compact as Contour. Also agree withdavkt, re batteries, I've got 5 now that I just change over in seconds if required and charge up at night as required, 90 mins use per battery, £4-5 each off Amazon. Mounts for helmet/ MTB helmet etc all good, only one I dont like is helmet strap version, I found that too unstable.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
...And if it needs to be said, most of these systems are available a lot cheaper in the US, if you or anyone else is going.
Prices on kit work out about two thirds of what you pay in the UK. Although word of advice, CHECK the vendor has stock BEFORE you go... stops you foraging around Boston looking for sports shops
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Richard_Sideways wrote:
...And if it needs to be said, most of these systems are available a lot cheaper in the US, if you or anyone else is going.
Prices on kit work out about two thirds of what you pay in the UK. Although word of advice, CHECK the vendor has stock BEFORE you go... stops you foraging around Boston looking for sports shops
and one other thng to consider is warranty claims, saving £70 on you camera is fine till you have to send it back to them via ups and a warranty claim ends up costing you £100.
not saying dont do it, but caveat empour applies.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ansta1, Thanks, I would like it primarily for snowsports but the boys might like to use one for surfing if thats a possibility. My budget would be hopefully about £250 or thereabouts. I am not great at the techie stuff but one that you can play through the TV/laptop. I do appreciate your help...oh one thats as in-obtrusive as possible on the old 'skid lid' if poss.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I don't get people's obsession with the drift. It just seems to be the budget option, and if you have one then fine but I don't go around suggesting people buy their groceries at Aldi when they ask for a quality product.
The fact that the drift only does 25 or 30fps in HD is a huge kill point.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks all you guys..I certainly have had loads of advice and it is much appreciated
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimastaaah, you're paying for the sensor, optics and for additional things like the 'heater' in the GoPro which stops it going kaput on very cold days. I know I sound a touch like a stuck record but the difference really is the image quality and additional filters you get which can make or break things you video. This is a comparison of the original GoPro to the Delkin for example, both the Delkin and the cheapest version of the new GoPro3 cameras retail with the trademarks at a similar price point:
These are all visible, very noticeable quality differences without even needing to full-screen the video, watch it in HD or intercut it with some higher quality footage.
Not saying right now everyone should have gopro stuck to their head/helmet but as others and i have said a few times, in simple image quality, right now, the gopro is the top of the pile.
However as mentioned they do have some software issues, if i didnt need to road test the hd3 blacks ive got on order then i probaly would have waited a little longer.
The drift, contour, iontheaction cameras major selling point is their form factor in my view but some of these are not very small things so i really dont see why having a toilet roll stuck to the side of the helmet is any worse than having a box on the top. The other consideration is price, and yes some of the others are cheaper.
My money right now would be on a hd2, retailers are going to be throwing them out of the door in the next few weeks, so there are bargains to be had, but buy from a local and reputable retailer in case of firmware or hardware issues.
If you cant live with the gopro form factor, then for me its the contour hd. Reserving judgement on the iontheaction till i have seen some in action.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The Ion looks interesting. Similar size to contour and drift afaict. If the pro kit came with HDMI lead instead of composite cable, and the wifi adapter, I'd seriously consider it. Full wifi version seems a bit pricy to me (€350).
Since GoPro have the marketing well and truly sealed up, all the others need the features loaded at cheaper prices.
Saying that, someone at work is flogging a contour plus various attachments for €100.
I don't get people's obsession with the drift. It just seems to be the budget option, and if you have one then fine but I don't go around suggesting people buy their groceries at Aldi when they ask for a quality product.
The fact that the drift only does 25 or 30fps in HD is a huge kill point.
Drift HD :
25 / 30 / 50 / 60 FPS in 720p
25 / 30 FPS in 1080p
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
meh, I bought my Delkin Wingman for £41 delivered. I spent a further £6.89 on 360 suction mount, tripod extension, and neoprene bag for all accessories.
I'm NOT talking pro-stuff here, I'm suggesting that the budget of most "fun" action HD cameras (and yes, that means cheap Chinese take aways) is "fun" enough to use on most action shots for a great number of skiers/boarders/surfers.
Your first video comparison just serves to underline the fact that if someone wants a less expensive alternative to the over-priced GoPro then the Delkin Wingman at 30% the cost of a GoPro is such an alternative.
It's a bit like skiing on Whitedots, with top Markers, backed up by ABS Avalung=thingies, top-notch helmet and GoPro HD cam, .............. you may just look the part with some great kit................... but can you cut the wasabi? OR infact, do you need to cut the wasabi?
I do believe the OP was wanting to look at such alternatives.
After all it is free
After all it is free
andy, the Delkin has HDMI connectivity.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
It has the HDMI socket, but comes with a legacy cable for one of those olde worlde CRT tellys, which seemed a bit odd. But they're not alone. Sony used to do the same with PS3.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
skimastaaah, yes, you're basically being the guy who insists that there is no difference worth paying for between the cheap OEM and more expensive consumer point-and-shoot stills cameras. This might be true if you're a half blind guy who only takes pictures of his cats in a well lit room for his own personal digital picture frame but for most other people it isn't. As with still cameras what you pay for is a general increase in image quality combined with more versatility in adverse situations as the camera will still give you a good image.
You can shoot almost indistinguishable footage on an iPhone as compared with some of the really expensive and high end cameras (where you start coming in at tens of thousands of pounds to buy without lenses) it just takes a lot more work than the expensive cameras and the situations in which it is comparable are much smaller. See this for example:
http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge-2012
The advantage for a consumer is that by paying a bit more money they don't need to worry so much about things like it being too bright, too dark, missing sound and umpteen other confusing bits and bobs.
As an enthused amateur myself I've pushed the HD2 past its limits filming a timelapse of an overnight hike of the Laugavegur trail here in Iceland. It simply got too dark so the exposure time was too long to take a non-blurry image from my backpack rigged mount. This was during the summer so it was actually quite bright even at 3am. I've had similar problems with photography using less than ideal equipment. Also the auto white balance doesn't handle full sitting in a dense cloud white out very well. I had to edit around some of the footage taken on Snæfellsjökull in my 'Ski-Touring in Iceland' video on Vimeo for that reason, it momentarily flickers lighter and darker on a fully grey scene.
The reason for buying a decent camera is not to improve you skiing but to make it more obvious what a clutzy fashion-whore you are!!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ALL
Many thanks for all the valuable information and insight. I'l get something in the new year, still decided between a GoPro and a good bullet; less obtrusive when road cycling and mayeb less exposed to damage when rock and ice climbing
Kevin
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
As a quick further point and sidestepping the image quality question. One small advantage the gopro form factor and mounting options does afford is the chest mount, this option gives you something you can wear underneath a jacket if required. You can then just open the zip a bit and start recording. I haven't seen a similar mount (though to be fair I haven't done much investigation) for the bullet type cameras.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ansta1 wrote:
As a quick further point and sidestepping the image quality question. One small advantage the gopro form factor and mounting options does afford is the chest mount, this option gives you something you can wear underneath a jacket if required. You can then just open the zip a bit and start recording. I haven't seen a similar mount (though to be fair I haven't done much investigation) for the bullet type cameras.
Still a pain getting your chest high enough to record the Nurbergring
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ansta1, doubt you will, it's the nature of the beast - bullet-style cameras don't lend themselves to chest mounts.
I've tried using shoulder mounts, hand mounts, and mounted on boards and skis before, as well as the usual helmet/head mount, and the best footage usually comes from the helmet mount, less vibration, better able to track who I'm filming, less obscuring from snow, straps, clothing etc. Never really tried a chest mount, but then i'm normally filming while riding by board, so a chest mount wouldn't really work anyway.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Richard_Sideways wrote:
ansta1, doubt you will, it's the nature of the beast - bullet-style cameras don't lend themselves to chest mounts.
I've tried using shoulder mounts, hand mounts, and mounted on boards and skis before, as well as the usual helmet/head mount, and the best footage usually comes from the helmet mount, less vibration, better able to track who I'm filming, less obscuring from snow, straps, clothing etc. Never really tried a chest mount, but then i'm normally filming while riding by board, so a chest mount wouldn't really work anyway.
Of that lot, the ones I'd say are the most useful are:
stability : your head is naturally the most stable part of your body.
tracking : you can turn your head as friends ski past to film them
I can clip the camera into the goggle-strap mount more easily than I can into a top-of-the-helmet mount that I see most GoPros using, without having to take the helmet off.
Also, as I ski with a rusksack on and wear salopettes rather than pants, I find the chest mount harness gest uncomfortable with so many straps over my shoulders, and pressure on the chest from the rucksack. However, this is a totally personal thing, and I'm sure it doesn't bother others in the same way.
Note none of these are better or worse, they are personal perference, which I think is where this thread has gone awry.
In terms of technical specifications, almost all of these cameras have enough features to keep most of us happy.
Anything else on top of that, form-factor, remote controls etc come into preference and what you're willing to work with. It doesn't make them better.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
feef, pretty much agree, the thread has morphed into a why one is better than the other rather than a straight requirements and suggestions, which whilst useful in context it moved away from the original request.
Also
Quote:
I can clip the camera into the goggle-strap mount more easily than I can into a top-of-the-helmet mount that I see most GoPros using, without having to take the helmet off.
And this is where I believe users should actually mount the gopro on the front of the helmet, why?
1. It makes it easier to put on/take off whilst wearing the helmet
2. If you don't have a remote it makes it easier to turn on/off whilst wearing the helmet
3. You look less like a telly tubby
4. You have the option with the extended J mount to get footage looking down on yourself should you want to.
The main issues with mounting on the front as I see them are...
1. The weight of the camera/mount may cause the helmet to be a little uncomfortable
2. The helmet design may not lend itself to that.
and as for ...
Quote:
Still a pain getting your chest high enough to record the Nurbergring
Here's a little brown pants clip I took before POV were in vogue, I'll post the link to my 9m 3 sec lap shortly...
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 8-11-12 9:10; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
feef, if we ignore the bits that are objectively better then yes the cameras are all very similar!
ansta1, err, the original post is actually asking which the best camera is so discussing why one is better than another is very much in the spirit of the OP!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
meh wrote:
feef, if we ignore the bits that are objectively better then yes the cameras are all very similar!
ansta1, err, the original post is actually asking which the best camera is so discussing why one is better than another is very much in the spirit of the OP!
it is, but only because OP didn't actually specify any particular criteria... We have now thread drifted into a thread about thread drift. Still it's helping get my post count up... at this rate I'll be in 4 figures before the end of the week
My money is still on the gopro for raw image quality btw, all gopro need to do now is bring out their own range of helmets with a custom recess for the gopro. Now there's an idea...
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
