 Poster: A snowHead
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I just think that someone who has acquired skiing competency to go off-piste should have the competency to go down a black run. Conversely for someone progressing from blues to reds, the logical way to progress their skiing is to master reds and do blacks, not go off-piste. I know not all off-piste is steep slopes in avalanche terrain, but buried rocks, holes, wells, drops, sudden changes in snow consistency to ice or crust etc may occur anywhere outside pistes, and consequences of fall are likely to be higher.
PS fixx you sound to me like your level is up to it
PPS- I hope clarky is not offended by suggesting guides/ instructors for newbies to off-piste. In fact I have no doubt that many respondants above have experience to take less experienced skiier off-piste. The reason I suggest against friends bringing friends is simply for same reasons spouses shouldn't bring spouses down black runs! I know of many examples of well meaning friends damaging friends confidence by bringing them off-pistefixx, fixx,
PPPS, abc, I did read thread and am aware it drifted far off opening point. Sorry for bringing it back to the point. I will re-read guidelines for posting!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I still don't understand why you think they should have ticked the 'black run' box though. Rocks, holes, drops and changes in snow consistency don't happen on them either after all, they just have a steeper pitch.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| patricksh wrote: |
| I just think that someone who has acquired skiing competency to go off-piste should have the competency to go down a black run. Conversely for someone progressing from blues to reds, the logical way to progress their skiing is to master reds and do blacks, not go off-piste. |
I disagree. There's no conflict between "mastering reds and do blacks" and a bit of easy off-piste.
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I know not all off-piste is steep slopes in avalanche terrain, but buried rocks, holes, wells, drops, sudden changes in snow consistency to ice or crust etc may occur anywhere outside pistes, and consequences of fall are likely to be higher.
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Again, I disagree. While the potential of falls may be a bit higher, the "consequence" of falls are only very slightly elevated. Neither are significant to prohibit off-piste skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
PPS- I hope clarky is not offended by suggesting guides/ instructors for newbies to off-piste. In fact I have no doubt that many respondants above have experience to take less experienced skiier off-piste.
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Not at all, obviously it's in no way a bad idea, just far from the ONLY way. I just think there's a tendency on SH's (not just this thread) to think that you should only ski offpiste with a guide.
I also think a lot of the time offpiste is safer. Can think of several icy reds and blacks where I've been genuinely terrified of the idiots falling and sliding past me (at speed), for instance. You just have to be sensible when choosing what to ski.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would concur wrt icy reds and blacks, seen that more often than I'd care to remember. Got taken out from behind last year on a red by someone out of control in bad Viz and never saw it coming, thankfully it was on day 5 of a 6 day trip, so only lost a day Skiing, was off work for 2 weeks on my return to UK though. Thought I had broken a rib but turned out to be serious torn ligament or muscle. I have had broken ribs before( not from skiing though) and it hurts just the same either way 
Andy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I agree with several of the posters in that you don't have to be competent on all black pistes before you tackle off piste. Only once or twice have I been on off piste pitches that were as steep as a black and they were definitely easier to ski because of the soft snow. Falling on them hurt less too.
Skiing off piste is really good for your balance and helps you to learn to absorb the terrain. It should be encouraged right from the start.
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For what it's worth, a real bargain for off-piste is the 6 day off-piste package at the ESF of Les 2 Alpes. 460€ incl lift pass and gear (not skis). You learn all the stuff about safety, and you do some great runs off the back of L2A, La Grave, etc. The domain is great and the off-piste is at the level you can handle, from easy to life-threatening! Even after years of off-piste, I still do that package if I can get 2-3 friends so we make a 'private' group. It's the best value for money in off-piste that I know.
Ciao,
Bob
ps. Never follow tracks off-piste if you don't know where they go! You'd be surprised how many cliffs you can come across that way...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Or if you don't have friends, join a TopSki or Alpine Experience off-piste group of your standard at Val d'Isere
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Quick update as I was away for a week in the 3 Vallees just over a month ago, and had booked some private lessons with my favourite instructor from last year.
First lesson I went through areas I wanted to work on (including deeper snow) and told him I’d started doing some off-piste. After an absolute grilling to determine how seriously I was taking the safety aspect, and some initial skiing to see how good/bad I was, he started getting quite excited and lesson plan was quickly biased towards off-piste 
The first lesson was lots of technique for short turns, which has given me a level of control I have never had before - completely changed my skiing and massively increased my confidence, it was brilliant – also fixed my too-wide stance that I've been battling with since I started. Second lesson was meant to be some between-the-pistes off-piste, but poor visibility put paid to that – so lots more great technique in deeper and steeper snow on piste and just off the sides. Then the final day with a lesson dawned bright and clear – so I was kitted up with a backpack, and taught how to use a transceiver, shovel and probe, and taken well away from the pistes for a good hour long run in deep snow. Then back into the resort for practice in the transceiver park finding multiple deep (5m+) bodies as well as some off-piste just off some runs. Great afternoon.
And all 3 lessons were peppered with talks on evaluating snow, texture, wind direction, evaluating a slope, choosing a path, spotting buried features, types of avalanches, examples of rescues, what to do in an avalanche, different types of kit etc. Just brilliant.
There’s still a long way to go for me, but I’m feeling much more confident now, and have had a fantastic time doing some amazing runs – so a good instructor is definitely worth their weight in gold! I just need to book him for (much) longer than 2 hours next time…
I also did lots of playing off the sides all with a friend who knows the 3 Vallees inside out, so lots of fun all week, bliss!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| If you see untracked powder close to a piste you should ask yourself why the 200 skiers who went down before you didn't ski it. |
When does that happen? Not in Espace Killy last week! Once the weather cleared after a metre of fresh snow, every scrap of piste-side powder was more or less instantly tracked out - including some very hairy gradients. We also saw numerous examples of riders hiking up ridiculous off-piste slopes (45 degrees) in the hot afternoon sun - virtually asking to be avalanched  .....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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