I haven't done the Paris sleeper thing before but very interested. Last year we did the overnight Eurostar from St Pancras to Moutier - it was very cheap, and ridiculously easy.
Normally it is:
Fri night/Sat morning.......Load car in Leeds at 1.30am.
Unload at Manchester parking place 2.30isham.
Load minibus to airport.
Unload minibus at airport.
Lug all kit all over airport (oversize luggage, bar, check in, etc, all v tired and grumpy).
Flight at 6am
Arrive wherever 9.30am, wait (and hope) for all kit (still no sleep)
11am Lug all kit to transfer bus (wait on transfer bus for everyone else)
3pm Arrive in resort and unload kit from bus
Load kit onto chalet minibus
Load kit off chalet minibus and finally arrive in Chalet at something like 3.30/4pm.
Last year it was:
Fri night
Train to London - 2.20 hours unload kit and
Put onto Eurostar at St Pancras 9.30pm
Arrive in Moutier at 6am, unload and load kit onto chalet minibus
We're in Meribel, can ski on Sat, all day
but aren't you missing out a couple of bits
Fri night - how did you get to the train?
did you not have to lug your kit all around st Pancreas as well?
I would love to do the Train but all that buggering about with luggage with kids is a bit of a pain, I guess i am lucky i can be at anyone of 5 airports in no more than 1hr 30 minutes, with the closest being about 35 minutes away. So while i can do my front door to first lift just over 8 hours with 2 kids and a full compliment of luggage that will be the call for me.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
johnE, fairly obvious in the OP "it will cost us only £430 for the 2 of us RETURN. "
How do you calculate £400? Maybe with Tesco vouchers and not taking toll roads?
The pricing is not obvious at all. I just tried to cost up using the direct eurostar train from London to go to Bourg on the 28/12/12 and return the following weekend and the price was an eye watering £537 per person. This was mainly because the return was only available first class. However the standard price is £180 each way per person.
As to driving
Fuel - 2650 km using 150 l of diesel @ 1.4 euro per litre = 210 euro, say £170
Tunnel £60 each way £120, but a bit cheaper and more reliable on the ferry
Tolls 70 euro each way say £112
Total £400 roughly.
OK it is a company car so we do not have to pay for servicing or depreciation etc. but there is no need for Tesco or not using toll roads.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
johnE, thanks, I wouldn't include depreciation etc, although some here do. I have to add european breakdown and a small insurance uplift as well. I guess you also don't stop overnight en route.
I did the overnight sleeper from Paris to Munich in 2008 - not steerage class either.
It was rough. I was in a 4-berth compartment that was not much bigger than a bathtub. The train was rickety and filthy. The 'dining' car had stand-up tables and godawful food.
I barely slept because every time we stopped at a station in France (throughout the night) the station PA would blast out that danged SNCF jingle and the station name. Could hear it all clearly despite wearing ear plugs.
All romantic notions of long-distance train travel well and truly shot to bits.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
I guess you also don't stop overnight en route.
I never saw the point of having an overnight stop, but having arrived very early after one trip at 6:00 I did have a nap until 11:00.
One downside to the costs. If you tie your skis to the roof then the fuel cost goes up by £30 due to the extra wind resistance. It really does make that much difference.
I would dearly love to use the train again for my new year trip, but then think just what we can do with the £1000 saving in travel costs.
I haven't done the Paris sleeper thing before but very interested. Last year we did the overnight Eurostar from St Pancras to Moutier - it was very cheap, and ridiculously easy.
Normally it is:
Fri night/Sat morning.......Load car in Leeds at 1.30am.
Unload at Manchester parking place 2.30isham.
Load minibus to airport.
Unload minibus at airport.
Lug all kit all over airport (oversize luggage, bar, check in, etc, all v tired and grumpy).
Flight at 6am
Arrive wherever 9.30am, wait (and hope) for all kit (still no sleep)
11am Lug all kit to transfer bus (wait on transfer bus for everyone else)
3pm Arrive in resort and unload kit from bus
Load kit onto chalet minibus
Load kit off chalet minibus and finally arrive in Chalet at something like 3.30/4pm.
Last year it was:
Fri night
Train to London - 2.20 hours unload kit and
Put onto Eurostar at St Pancras 9.30pm
Arrive in Moutier at 6am, unload and load kit onto chalet minibus
We're in Meribel, can ski on Sat, all day
but aren't you missing out a couple of bits
Fri night - how did you get to the train?
did you not have to lug your kit all around st Pancreas as well?
I would love to do the Train but all that buggering about with luggage with kids is a bit of a pain, I guess i am lucky i can be at anyone of 5 airports in no more than 1hr 30 minutes, with the closest being about 35 minutes away. So while i can do my front door to first lift just over 8 hours with 2 kids and a full compliment of luggage that will be the call for me.
You make a good point.... and I admit that I wrote the above with a bias towards the train option.
Really all I'm saying is that from a very subjective reflection of my travel experience I found the train easier. We did have to take a taxi to Leeds train station, and also had to lug all the kit from KingsX to St Pancras, but personally, I found this easier than the airport.
I think a large part of it for me, is the lack of waiting around, and also the comfort of the train - it was a seat all the way, no beds - but I booked early and we had tables and lots of space. It just felt less stressful and cramped than planes and buses.
Also - I don't have kids so I cannot say how this would change things. I imagine it increases the luggage considerably and makes moving around harder - whereas we are a group of adults, each responsible for their own luggage and being where they need to be - additionally we're happy to stay up all night as long as comfortable - so comfy train seat, space, have a drink, maybe doze for a bit - that kind of works. But I guess that would be harder with children.
This year we're back to the usual plane etc - just part of the package hol, but hey - long as the holiday is good eh?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ansta1 wrote:
For our family trip to Courchevel we usually leave at about 6am, check in by 7am. Flight leaves around 9.30am. Lands about 12pm local time, transfer about 1hr 30. Usually on the slopes by about 2.30. Of course we don't get the extra full day @ either end but it works quite well for us.
I am confused, where are you landing? at Courchevel? If you can land at 12.00 and be on the slopes for 2.30 you are doing very well.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Land at Chambery, private transfer into 1850. (c.1.30). Dump bags, gear up then on the slopes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
driving has become the least stressful way for us to get to Les Arcs these days. No luggage issues, easy driving for the entire journey (except when the weather gets a bit extreme) and not too much slower than plane or train. We leave home in time to get a Eurotunnel just before 8am and we're in Bourg St Maurice at 6.30pm to buy groceries in the SuperU.
+1,
although I generally drive and have to time the journey to arrive @ St Expuery, Lyon to collect my wife who prefers to fly!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Excellent thread
St Pancras to Moutiers Eurostar Saturday day service
Possibly considering using this route this winter
Anyone used it / what did they think?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Pleasant way of travelling - unlike the night Eurostar - which if crowded is uncomfortable and the sanitation struggles..
Just be prepared for rich londonites snorting cocaine from the first class tables.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
thefatcontroller, greetings, and well done getting a train thread going.
And real impressed you are planning a train trip to the alps from Wales!
I've tried most ways to the alps (not tried the overnight coach, but hated the overnight Eurostar).
Car, train, plane: I reckon its horses-for-courses - each to their own.
But definitely did think the train was only worth considering if you lived in London, or near one of the other stations on the Eurostar route.
If you book up early enough, the train can match most other ways in money terms, but takes about twice the time.
valleyboy asks about the Day Eurostar SkiTrain .
Another route i've not done myself, but lots of friends and colleagues swear by this route. Very convenient, and most convivial if you go out with a group.
One great thing about the train is you can take on board as much booze and food as you can carry.
Great fun if with a crowd of mates - not so much fun if you are in the same carriage and hoping for a quiet snooze.
As menioned earlier: the overnight Eurostar service is to be avoided by anyone who hopes to sleep, unless they are ok sleeping sitting up in among a crowd of restless snoring farting coughing moaning talking smelly extras from a Twighlight film.
I did it once. Never again.
I usually go the Eurostar/SNCF way - day or night, depending circumstances and availability.
Book early enough and Eurostar is only £35 each way for return journey (£39 one way). SNCF day trains to Bourg can be less than £30, but always worth checking the 1st class fare which can be only £10 more: more room and a power point for your laptop.
Night trains: I avoid 2nd class at weekends unless taking over the whole compartment. Six crammed into the compartment can be unpleasant, and tricky finding space for all the luggage. During the week the compartment is often only half full - then not nearly so bad.
First class is much better. Not just you have more room and more comfortable surface to sleep on, but your fellow passengers are usually keen to sleep as soon as the train leaves the station rather than chat all night.
Either way, if you want to make sure of a decent night's sleep, ask you friendly GP for a "sleeping tablet". I use Zoplidem.
My reasons for prefering the train are 1. No luggage restriction 2. No hanging about for ages: you keep moving 3. Feels more of an adventure 4. You see the country you are going through 5. You arrive right at the mountains - bus transfer 30 minutes rather than 3 hours. 6. You can get extra days skiing if using the night train
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Jonpim wrote:
thefatcontroller, greetings, and well done getting a train thread going.
And real impressed you are planning a train trip to the alps from Wales!
My Dad is an old railway man. If any of you have been on the DART in Dublin that was his baby from inception to opening. I grew up on trains, was very fortunate because of Dads position we got free 1st class train travel in Europe. Nice. Long train journeys excite me, airports just bore me, no sense of having travelled anywhere.
The whole point of this thread was/is to make people aware that the train is an option and a real option. Ignore it if you want but get it right and its a joy. I agree about the Doc visit
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
If you are wondering about time, ease, hassle, comfort etc, you might find this film that I made useful: a plane vs train race to the Alps (Meribel) http://youtube.com/v/M5OG8qj79fo
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
thefatcontroller, did you book it all through Eurostar or did you use other sites?
I'm impressed and will be keen to hear how it works out because we'd never really considered the train as an option from Wales.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Daniel Snowcarbon, Good video!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
LittleRos, National Rail, Eurostar and TGV websites. 3 seperate purchases but it was a painless process.
Daniel Snowcarbon, Good video, the guy flying looked the more stressed?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
LittleRos, we use Rail Canterbury (ask for Jacky) as an aggregator, have done for the past 5 seasons. They seem capable of sorting out the most complex mix of iteneraries and needs, from multi-location start positions to multi return days, as well as familes versus lads trips.
I've done the erostar then the sleeper form Paris to Cham once. I liked it - enabled us to get max days skiing for a long weekend. THe loading/unloading wasn't too much of an issue. I packed my board bag with clothes and had a small rucksack as well. The change at Paris was fine by metro and I slept well. I find the motion of the train v soothing actually! Not much space in the standard couchette so I would defo pack light.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
thefatcontroller, Take the metro/RER in Paris. The local taxis aren't plentiful, or good, and the traffic will take up time better spent having dinner. Ever since they put a surface car park in the middle of Boulevard Clichy it's snarled up forever. Taxi's the way to go in London though.
Also, I would be very keen on the day-time eurostar if with a group of friends form London. Easy and fun way to travel if you are heading to the Tarentaise I reckon (although not actually done it) compared to airport transfers and mucking about.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Is there free wifi on the French trains, if so great way to catch up on mails, etc
After all it is free
After all it is free
valleyboy wrote:
Excellent thread
St Pancras to Moutiers Eurostar Saturday day service
Possibly considering using this route this winter
Anyone used it / what did they think?
Have used the Eurostar day train to 3V and Espace Killy for the last 3 years. We travelled as a group of 13 to 15.
Travelled in Standard Premier class (Seats: Wider, reclinable seats, less crowded coach.)
On board service: Light meal service on board with drinks (wine, beer, soft drinks, tea and coffee ect...) Then muffin or biscuits with tea later in the afternoon. All food and drinks included in Standard premier fare and only served during meal time. If you need more drinks you'll have to buy it from the buffet coach. Free newspapers and magazines available on board as well.
The train stops at Moutiers Salins then Aime La Plagne and Bourg St Maurice. It does NOT stop at Aime on the way back to London!
Skis and boards at no extra charge. (New luggage policy from 01/12/12 means that you might be paying on the NON direct train VIA Paris in the future)
It's a long journey but you can seat down and relax until you arrive at your destination.
No anxious wait for your skis or boards at arrival.
Moutiers to anywhere in 3V is between 30 to 40 minutes
Bourg St Maurice to Espace Killy same and less to Les Arcs
If you don't want to rush to get another day of skiing on Saturday then it's really the most ralaxing way I have found.
Have travelled with Crystal/Thomson ski before to 3V by plane+transfer.
Up very early (around 5am) even after spending the night in the Sofitel in Gatwick airport. Then the wait and boarding and the wait for luggage and the wait for everybody to be on the transfer bus and changing bus at Moutiers bus station (btw same station as the train for Eurostar) and of course more waiting in Moutiers etc...... We arrived in La Tania at about 3 pm. Not in a good shape
So if I want to ski in France and within an hour of any Eurostar station, I will not hesitate as I live in London.
If you live in Kent you can join the train at Ashford international.
Of course, its limits are for those who have to travel far to St Pancras or Ashford international
Hope it helps
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I have flown/car-hired, flown/trained, driven, sleeper trained it from Paris, Snowtrained it from London and taken a coach both from London and from a local(ish) airport. Other than getting helicoptered in - ha! - I think I've done the journey from London to the Alps as many ways as are possible.
Relying on this vast depth of experience, I am now booked on a mid-morning Sat Eurostar to Paris in Jan '13 followed by a TGV to BStM two hours later. Total cost return - £116 for two of us. Slight hassle factor with the change in Paris but I've done it before and know the way via the metro and you get a bit of 'insurance' viz-a-vis the leg of the journey for Paris to BstM (no joke when you were one of the people shafted by the snow stopping the Snowtrain a couple of years ago). We do lose the two extra days sking which the Snowtrain gives but we have to unpack/pack up the apartment on those days anyway so I tend to use any extra time to look after kit and we save roughly £350.
Tried a couchette both to and from Paris - won't do it again. Not worth the extra cost.
Provided you positon yourself in the right place on the Snowtrain you can sleep quite well but there's generally some hyped up three year old with his kindergarten friends (nominally in their twenties) who seem to think that the entire train is some form of playground for them for the entire trip (the last time it involved chasing each other up and down the carriages in full fancy dress doing forfeit/dares linked to some lame drinking game. This stopped when I leant in, nicked most of their booze and started drinking it all whilst loudly demanding that I could 'play' as well and started making up some interesting 'forfeits' regarding the ladies in the group. They quietened down a lot after that). FFS - it's a just a journey on a train - chillax. If you can, upgrade - much nicer.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
thefatcontroller, Arctic Roll, thanks!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
dublin2 wrote:
Is there free wifi on the French trains, if so great way to catch up on mails, etc
From the SNCF website it looks like the daytime TGVs and the nighttime Intercites de Nuit don't have wifi, only Thalys trains which I don't think go this route.
I will be doing the train for first time in early Jan - for just 17 EUR each way from Paris-Bourg St Maurice you really can't knock it. I am also one of those who can never EVER sleep in a seat but 1 ordinary Boots sleeping tablet gave me 7 hours' great sleep when I travelled with Snowcoach recently, so I'm relying on that, earplugs and an eyeshade to provide a good night's rest!
I'd be interested to know if there are really lockers for ski bags at Austerlitz. It was posted by someone in another forum (can't remember which) but I can't seem to confirm it..would be handy to know, if you want to spend a day in Paris before heading out. Gare du Nord won't take them and Blue Marble office is closed Saturdays.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'm surprised some bright spark hasn't started a transfer bus from GdN to GdL.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ksscott, I'd be careful about what you leave lying around if you do that - it's not unknown for things to disappear .... (see above comment about three year olds and 'games' + the local criminal talent attracted to tourists with 'ski resort' levels of cash on them).
ansta1, too much hassle to find a parking space - you just get the metro anyway, it's easy and cheap enough to make a coach economically unviable.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ksscott wrote:
I'd be interested to know if there are really lockers for ski bags at Austerlitz. It was posted by someone in another forum (can't remember which) but I can't seem to confirm it..would be handy to know, if you want to spend a day in Paris before heading out. Gare du Nord won't take them and Blue Marble office is closed Saturdays.
Read my trip report here. In the 1st post it shows where the locker rooms are in Austerlitz.
I was looking at train from London to Worgl in Austria (got a group member who won't fly, arms not strong enough) and it is surprisingly cheap and do-able. St Pancras to Paris (2.5 hours), change station, Paris to Munich (6 hours), Munich to Worgl (1 hour 10) - looking like 12 hours total journey time with connections and about £70 each way. So, everyone assumes France for train travel but there are (better ) options.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Zero-G wrote:
I did the overnight sleeper from Paris to Munich in 2008 - not steerage class either.
I think they've stopped the overnight sleeper service now. Couldn't find it via RailEurope. It's only 6 hours in daylight so no real need for overnighters.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
thefatcontroller wrote:
ksscott wrote:
I'd be interested to know if there are really lockers for ski bags at Austerlitz. It was posted by someone in another forum (can't remember which) but I can't seem to confirm it..would be handy to know, if you want to spend a day in Paris before heading out. Gare du Nord won't take them and Blue Marble office is closed Saturdays.
Read my trip report here. In the 1st post it shows where the locker rooms are in Austerlitz.
Hi train experts.
We would like to do a short break to 3vallees by train so could travel one way on the weekend ( eurostar from St Pancras to Moutiers - with a change at Paris if the direct train is fully booked) but would need to do the other leg mid week when I don't think the euro star runs all the way to Moutiers.
Is it possible to do Moutiers to Paris and then onto London during the week ?
If yes, what is the route and how do i book it ?
Hoping to get an adult long ski weekend and leave children with grandparents. We have our own apartment in Brides-les-Bains which is only 10 minutes from Moutiers so taking the train will save on long airport transfers in France and UK.
Thank you for your help
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hi Train experts
Please could you let me know how to travel between Moutiers and London mid week.
Would like to take the direct eurostar one way but return mid week by tain if that is possible. I am assuming it is possible to go from Moutiers to Paris and then from Paris eurostar back to St.Pancras.
Apolgies in advance if I have manged to post in this forum twice in a row - Pc playing up!
The trains for January are not relased yet. By the way a trick, if buying from this website and it asks what country you are in say France. If you say UK it redirects to you their UK website raileurope which is crap. You can print them off at home so no makes no difference.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
For all things European train related http://www.seat61.com/ is a great source of information.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
IwishICouldThinkOfAFabNam, your needs are quite normal for our " boys trip", where we travel out by train to Les Arcs, then people sort themselves out to return , based on their "significant others' " definition of boys weekend / long weekend /short week/ week. LAst time IIRC we had one going on a Wednesday, one on a Thurs, and three of us on the Friday.
We've had people getting to Paris to fly to Montreal midweek, people having to catch an early train home due to a family bereavement, people flying in from Barcelona and then training home with the main party. Averyting is possibl.e
But the overnight trains leave on a daily basis with couchettes: there are TGVs which go straight through during the day, every day or you can change at Chambery if the timings don't work out for you. As above we always use Rail Canterbury, so they will do the hard work: they keep a diary to book your SNCF leg on the first available date, and will email throughout the process to confirm you are still interested / in the game.
One of the advantages for me is I can leave the responsibility for changes of itinerary with individuals and R Canterbury deal with each of them but all under the same umbrella.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thanks Artic Roll. If we can persuade the grandparents to have the children for a few nights I will definately give Rail Canterbury a call. Good to know the mid week train is do -able. If Grandparents can't take children, then a might just have to organise a girls trip instead !
Thanks also Fatcontroller. Your report was really helpful.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) options.