 Poster: A snowHead
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Well, according to this article on PlanetSki http://www.planetski.eu/news/4258
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Head injuries rise despite greater helmet use
That is the conclusion from a US survey presented to a meeting of the American College of Emergency Physicians. The survey has been widely reported but the statistics raise some questions.
The survey says that injuries and fatalities from skiing, snowboarding and snowmobiling have not declined, despite measures aimed at making them safer, according to two studies presented to the Scientific Assembly in Denver Colorado.
To some the conclusion may be surprising and it has been reported by US media.
"Skiing and snowboarding-related head injuries requiring emergency care have increased at a higher rate than all other ski and snowboard injuries, despite an increase in helmet use," said one of the researchers, Mark Christensen from Western Michigan University. "Males, snowboarders and teenagers are most likely to be injured."
According to the survey in 2004, there were an estimated 9,308 head injuries sustained while skiing or snowboarding that required emergency medical care.
By 2010, that estimate had increased to 14,947 head injuries.
The number of helmet users increased by over 20% between 2004 and 2010... continues... |
Winter must be upon us. A helmet debate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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With the increase in park skiing at just about every level and the increase in people doing park type tricks on the edges of pistes this is no surprise, statistics mean nothing when not qualified with other information and even then can be manipulated to say whatever you want.
I choose to wear a helmet but would not try and influence anyone over 18 in either direction. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A number of factors that appear to be missing from the report.
While helmet usage has increased by 20%, to what extent has snow-sports participation increased? Could the 20% be explained by that?
It also doesn't mention how head injuries have changed in relation to injuries or accidents in general. Simply correlating helmet usage and head injuries in isolation is incorrect, misleading and sensationalist. The Planetski article also reports US Media's comments, this sort of meta-reporting is just as flawed as they are interpreting and quoting someone else's interpretation.
It does mention that an increase in park and free skiing could be contributing. This is a more significant factor that requires more than a passing comment. I think this is one of the main reasons.
So seeing an increase in a sector of the sport where accidents are more likely anyway will see a proportionately higher increase in accidents, coupled with the fact that rails, boxes and other park terrain items are far more sturdy than a normal piste, I'd say it's inevitable that injuries will increase.
no doubt there will follow a helmet debate thread, but I really think the article isn't worth reading further. I'd much rather see more information on the original survey.
What was the demographics of the survey group, where the surveys were conducted, when they were conducted. Are the survey questions subjective, objective or a combination?
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Interesting that it says the problem isn't of the same magnitude in Europe with knee injuries still being the most common.
Can't find the original paper but here is the abstract:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196064412008414
Anyway isn't it pretty much common knowledge that helmets are not designed to give much if any protection in accidents where the result would have been fatal or severe concussion? I wear mine for protection against knocks, bumps and cuts. The demographics speak to that too kids see a benefit and male, teenage snowboarders don't the latter tend to take part in far more risky elements of the sport with much less regard for the consequences.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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feef, all good points.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think that's a significant indicator of the quality of data:
185 Skiing and Snowboarding-related Head Injuries in the United States: A Retrospective Analysis From 2004-2010
185 injuries in 6 years, that's not a huge sample group, and certainly not enough (imho) to form any significant stats
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feef, err that's the number of the article not the number of injuries...
(e.g. 186 is The Effect of a Community Crash Reenactment
Program on Teen Alcohol Awareness and Behavior)
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what constitutes a head injury ? split lips , lost teeth , black eyes, cheek bone fractures etc .. ( dare I suggest are the most common) none of which are prevented by the use of the majority of helmets ..
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 10-10-12 14:36; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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limegreen1, it doesn't say in the article but the majority (67%) were concussions or other closed head injuries according to the abstract.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Winter must be upon us. A helmet debate. |
Of those sustaining serious head injuries, how many of them wore helmets? Seems like a slightly unhelpful report, without those numbers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, could be a number of things...
Certainally suspect an increase in park-related injuries, could also be an increase in the number of people being passed into paramedic care from the mountain medical center, rather than being packed on their way with a couple of ibuprofen and a hot chocolate...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Stats don't really tell any kind of story anyway - I can't understand anyone that's actually been skiing that can argue against a helmet. If i'm going to seriously injure myself it's probably happening anyway, but the amount of mild concussion type stuff I've had that there's no point in reporting, self inflicted or punter inflicted...
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Serriadh, not really if helmets protect against serious head injuries then an increase in their use in the population should see a decrease in the number of serious head injuries in that population. Unless helmet use is only prevalent in one very specific demographic and serious head injuries only occur elsewhere or visa versa. Neither of which seems that plausible with skiing and snowboarding particularly considering the demographic most at risk.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Interesting that it says the problem isn't of the same magnitude in Europe with knee injuries still being the most common.
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More skiing below the treeline in the US showing up in the accident stats?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Are you over 18?
Yes - Then if you want a helmet wear one if not don’t.
No- Tough you have to do what your rents or the local authority tells you.
There you go Helmet debate over can we move on?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm currently in the market for a helmet after many years of skiing without.
Took me a while to come round yet I have no idea why. Interesting topic
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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parkesy, I have been well impressed with my Avid.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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parkesy, its one layer of security. I didn't actually buy one until I had to last year and after that I don't see the point of skiing without it. They're light, comfy, provide a modicum of protection and make googles look right. Or something. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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just make sure its well vented. i bought a k2 rant without thinking or seeing it and it only has a tiny slot to the front,  .... sweated me plums off !
Im still not sold on wearing one at all times .. ( i really dont know why )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And make sure its compatible with your headphones 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| Quote: |
Interesting that it says the problem isn't of the same magnitude in Europe with knee injuries still being the most common.
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More skiing below the treeline in the US showing up in the accident stats? |
That!
Only the one time I came too close to a tree, it's my ribs that took the impact. Anyone who got a body protector in exchange for my well worn helmet?
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Bode Swiller, you are a very bad boy. Go stand in the corner.
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My girls had a dy ski slope lesson at the weekend and because they will need to wear helmets when we go with Esprit I made sure they wore helmets for the lesson. While the girls were struggling to carry the skis my eldest ended up swinging her skis round hitting the back of my youngests head. I am now completely sold helmets are great!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So what everyone appears to be saying is that helmet wearers are engaging in more risk?
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davidof, nope. All the stats say is that head injuries are rising in the US, and helmet use is rising too. Everything else is merely inferred.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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abc, Can't blame trees. They don't move around much and they advertise themselves by looking just like errrr... trees. Made of wood you know.
achilles, not my fault. Had an email from a bloke in north London!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, ver you just obeying orders?
Love skiing trees despite no helmet - not hit one yet: even the little quick-moving ones.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| davidof, nope. All the stats say is that head injuries are rising in the US, and helmet use is rising too. Everything else is merely inferred. |
I was commenting on what snowheads are saying which is that accidents are outstripping helmet use because people are doing riskier activities.
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, While i think it's safe to say that people are indulging in risky activity, I'm not sure you can link it to helmet use.
Personally I suspect the increase of park usage among people who havn't got the necessary skills. Large park features aren't as prevelant in Europe as they are in N.A. Most parks have a 'helmets only' policy so all injuries would involve helmet use, and the demographic of those involved in injurys would fit the profile of park users.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
| parkesy, I have been well impressed with my Avid. |
That Red Avid?
Im not sure I like the grey vents on the front. I realise its not a fashion statement but at the same time it I don't fancy wearing something I personally perceive as a bit ugly (sorry).
Any other helmets with great ventilation I should look at at?
I'm a big head 'sweater' so this is essential. More of the park looking helmet sort of person.
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Poster: A snowHead
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parkesy, I'm like you. I could wring the lining of my old helmet out after about half an hour of riding. Was a problem with my Protec and my old RED, but problem went away completely with my new POC. Not even many vents on it (things like Giros are more vent than helmet) but air flows through the shell rather than just over it, so you stay warm but the sweaty air gets vented out.
Have a look at the skull light, also look at the Peak Performance helmets which are rebadged POC's
There was another thread about best helmets for people who sweat recently, may be useful...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=90634
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The thing is the recount in the OP doesn't suggest what proportion of those head injuries were to those people wearing helmets.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, if you look at the abstract I posted it's about 1/3 which I think tallies with the proportion of people taking part in snowsports using helmets.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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meh, can't get into abstract without registering so not working off the exact wording, BUT if roughly 1/3 of the 15,000 head injuries had been wearing helmets, thats significantly under the proportion of of people in the US who wear helmets on the mountain (helmet use there is closer to 60-70%, as high as 80%+ in some areas).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Clearly one helmet is not enough. Two should be worn. I expect snowHeads will lead..
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm wearing 3 right now...
...and not one in the conventional place
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achilles, obviously we'd love to see all your data.
Do helmeted people have less accidents if they are sporting a GoPro on top? I think so or you'd see more footage of collisions with trees etc. Or are they too injured to edit it?
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Until Ski insurance companies give a discount to skiers who wear helmets I doubt we will get any meaningful stats.
I have never seen an insurance form with any questions about ski's or helmets.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boredsurfing, but much of the data I've seen over the years suggests that helmeted peeps suffer more injuries
Essential Travel started giving discount last year but that was a marketing ploy by the looks of it.
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Richard_Sideways, I'm not registered and can view it fine. Weird!
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FAQ
