 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just had an awesome week's skiing in Niseko, however I found it incredibly cold. I wear 6 layers on the top (skins, thermals, sports t shirt, North Face fleece, Arcteryx soft shell, Arceteryx hard shell), 3 on the legs (skins, thermals, salopettes). A helmet, neck warmer and gloves. But i really feel the cold. It was so painful I avoided speed where at all possible!.
I noticed quite a few people wearing a down jacked as mid-layer - are they good? Any other tips? I certainly need to upgrade my gloves - any suggestions for super warm gloves?
Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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down jacket / down sweater for the win
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good grief. 
You actually manage to move about with that lot on? Suggest you move into down and merino. And possibly silk.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lizzard, yes i can move about - they're all thin layers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you wear lots of layers, the outer ones will tend to compress the inner ones making them work less well. Then you end up having to throw on another layer to compensate. This is also why you probably don't want to use a down jacket as a mid, because the shell layer will compress the down making it less warm. I'd also just skip the non-insulating layers, like the tshirt over the thermals.
Don't wear more, wear warmer. Heaviweight thermals (like patagonia capilene 3/4, heavy powerdry stuff) a high loft fleece (thermal pro high loft is excellent, and feels reaaaaally nice) and a decent down jacket on the outside (look for fillpowers above 700 either US or EU, the difference isn't massive) should do you just fine. A hard shell might be useful in a storm. A softshell might be useful over the fleece and under the down, in case you get too warm! If you can afford two arcteryx shells, you can definitely afford to get yourself a really nice down jacket! Its a purchase you won't regret.
You could also consider a softshell with a decent thick fleecy layer in it, rather than the usual stretch weave or windstopper type fabric softshell and separate fleece layer. The Rab Baltoro Guide Pro is one example, the old (and discontinued) Patagonia Speed Ascent or newer (and very expensive) Northwall is another.
Seriously, don't just keep stacking layers on. They need to trap air to insulate, and if they're squashed they're just dead weight.
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what Serriadh said.
a merino base layer, Rab vapour-rise mid layer and a thick down jacket should keep you warm, with a hardshell as backup in case of really bad weather or to replace the DJ if you get too warm. Don't forget your head is also key, a windproof balaclava may look dodgy but is the best way to keep your head warm (and thus your body, as up to30% of your heat can be lost from the head). Personally I would overheat skiing with such a set up but I've used it hiking & camping in the mountains in winter and it works really well
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Serriadh, +1 beanie1, by the sound of what your saying your just adding layers on top of what you would wear when its not as cold.
If you know its going to be super cold day and you know you suffer then I would suggest having a setup for such days, I know its more expensive this way, but you will reduce the risk of just compressing the base layers as Serriadh, says
Lots of Merino gear out there in different weights, as an example my OH really feels the cold, shes only 43 kg and a transplant patient so is not that active, so over the last couple of years have built up range for her.
Very cold days for her is.
Base layer merino 185
2nd layer merino 280
Mid layer merino 320
Outer normal ski jacket
Less cold days she just does not bother with the 320 and she is fine, and if its warmer then she uses a light base under the 280 top
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| horizon wrote: |
| down jacket / down sweater for the win |
This
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For me, on the coldest days:
Extremely thin merino sleeveless vest
Long sleeved silk vest
Merino 200 base
Merino 260 mid layer
Insulated jacket
Compression tights
Silk long johns
Ski socks (up to my knee)
Ski pants
Neck warmer
Mid-performance Hestra gloves
Silk glove liners + those gel thingies sometimes
Helmet
Works a treat, not too bulky, doesn't get compressed. I do feel the cold - even though I have quite a lot of natural insulation. 
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I will be paying attention to this thread, minus 38 on Thursday night in les arcs, brrr.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I like merino base layers and if it's cold wear a long sleeve and a short sleeve one. Then a 100 weight fleece topped by a shell ski jacket with a mesh lining.
In the past I wore an extra fleece if really cold but I does go a bit Michelin man. This year I bought a primaloft vest (Rab generator) and it is superb. I'm thinking of an equivalent jacket or pull on instead for super cold days.
I love my down jacket for evenings but find it just too warm for any activity though one of the thinner ones (Rab microlight, Patagonia down sweater) would probably make a good mid layer.
Mitts with silk liners, half fleece buff under the helmet (or balaclava if really cold) and merino long johns and I'm OK.
The only thing I can't do is get my feet warm enough if it's super cold (-15 or lower)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| blahblahblah wrote: |
| I will be paying attention to this thread, minus 38 on Thursday night in les arcs, brrr. |
For that sort of temperature, you don't want a down jacket. You want a busy pub.
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| Quote: |
The only thing I can't do is get my feet warm enough if it's super cold (-15 or lower)
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I simply HAVE to wear Thermic foot warmers once it's cold. A balaclava under a helmet or hat makes a big difference. And I find helmet a lot warmer than a hat. But - this may be sacrilege - but I think there comes a point where it's too cold to be enjoyable, though you can always do a run or two then duck into a nice warm restaurant where they give you hangers to put jackets to warm over the wood stove, and nice slippers.
The last several seasons in Europe there's been scarcely any cold weather - the coldest long spell I remember was Jan/early Feb 2003 which was -15 for quite a while. Colder at night, but who goes out in the night? Little or no wind, fortunately. I found it was fine as long as you keep turning and doing stuff and don't just whizz down the hill.
Difficult with little kids when it gets really cold.  I had a skinny little niece (now doing her final med exams) who just couldn't be kept warm, whatever you did. She was a brave little thing, and very athletic - gymnast, dancer, later ferocious hockey player, rower). Not a wimp then, but sometimes weeping with cold nonetheless. Her younger brother was the opposite. "Me too 'ot" he used to say, and ski everywhere with his jacket open.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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DJL, There is a thread on here where someone made their own from an old wet suit at far less cost. I would also add not to forget to make sure you have dried and warmed your boots overnight - it makes a big difference.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w,
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I think there comes a point where it's too cold to be enjoyable
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Agreed, I was close to that one day in Whistler last year - kept having to stop for hot drinks (which I don't usually do) and wanted to plunge my hands into them almost more than I wanted to drink them! I was skiing with another couple of old ladies that day and we found a nice run to lap a few times, at one point: the liftie was very complimentary, said we were proper gnarly, since we were virtually the only people out on the hill! We were rather proud of ourselves.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
the liftie was very complimentary, said we were proper gnarly, since we were virtually the only people out on the hill! We were rather proud of ourselves.
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 I bet he says that to all the old girls!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, maybe, but that day there weren't any other old girls, or indeed anyone else, to say it to!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| gra wrote: |
what Serriadh said.
Don't forget your head is also key, a windproof balaclava may look dodgy but is the best way to keep your head warm (and thus your body, as up to30% of your heat can be lost from the head). |
Urban myth !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OP A Spyder uniform.
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ringingmaster, How much is lost from this exposed blood suffused organ?
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| ringingmaster wrote: |
| gra wrote: |
| Don't forget your head is also key, a windproof balaclava may look dodgy but is the best way to keep your head warm (and thus your body, as up to30% of your heat can be lost from the head). |
Urban myth ! |
Isn't it more like 'common misunderstanding', or perhaps 'terrible phrasing'? Please also take note of the weasel words, 'can be' and 'up to' which are guilty of a multitude of sins.
I believe the actual meaning is something like 'when you sensibly dressed but bare-headed, up to 30% of your total heat loss can be from your head', on account of it being a good source of heat loss and exposed to the elements. Next best place to lose heat is from your wrists, I think. Anyway, if you're basically naked, your head accounts for about 10% of your heat loss.
Me, I've always been a fan of jackets with hoods. There's another thread which has excoriated hoods (especially when worn over helmets), however, so I won't be recommending them on this site 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
you feel significantly warmer with decent headwear
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definitely. that's why an extra thin (e.g. silk) balaclava can be v good - and a bit neckwarmer, obviously (but then I wear a neckwarmer even when it isn't very cold....).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Merino thermals, good thin fleece, down jacket, neckwarmer, shell jacket, helmet and goggles. That seems to work for me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Cynic wrote: |
| ringingmaster, How much is lost from this exposed blood suffused organ? |
There is only marginally more heat loss for the skin area than any other part of the body, so about 10% of your heat would be lost through your head if you were naked. The point is, you would not ski in -30C with your arm exposed, but you might with your head exposed.
I will see if I can dig out the reference to a peer reviewed paper from a study a couple of years back (in the states I think).
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Skied in -30 degC at Mt Tremblant....
MUST have the full face mask & goggles (the neoprene face mask is widely available in Canada for a reason i guess!) - ANY exposed skin will get frostbitten very very quickly in -30C with the wind chill added on to it....
Body etc was fine - problem was feet and hands.
I've heard the Intuition Liner is warmer than most... neoprene booties to fit over the front of your boots may seem silly but will help - those thermic heated footbeds would be the best option though - and i remember seeing heated gloves available (!) otherwise, good mittens over a good glove liner inner.
Saw a guy on the coach back to the airport with an astonishing pus-filled earlobe from frostbite..... youch.
Coops
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You know it makes sense.
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UUuuuuuum whad'ja think that hipflask is for?
Also, down jacket. Too hot for me to ski in, but great for sitting around outside/camping/etc on a cold Scottish evening!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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+1 for neoprene face mask and don't forget the handwarmers!
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Poster: A snowHead
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The big difference for me was mitts with a separate liner - the glove provides the warmth, the mitt keeps the wind and a bit of the cold out.
The other thing is to make sure that your neck doesn't get cold - lots of arteries and veins in there, if your neck gets cold then it will transport that cold either into your head (not nice) or into your body core (also not nice) so keep them warm at all costs. A fleece buff to go round the base of your neck and either a thinner buff to come up to the bottom of your chin or a mask to go from neck warmer to the bottom of your face.
It sounds like you are layering up ok, so what you need to do now is keep draughts out and if anything increase the efficiency of the layers with higher performance materials.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ringingmaster, Thank you look forward to it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Merino base-layer & mid-layer, Primaloft insulating jacket and Goretex outer shell. Topped off with a merino balaclava, neck warmer and helmet. Never been cold with this combination, even at -30C. At those temps it's usually hands and feet that get the coldest.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, AARGH! My eyes hurt!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wool for the win!
Merino is nicest next-to-skin, but outer layers do not need to be merino.
Basic gear for me is
legs: medium-weight merino + soft shell salopettes
upper body: polyester base, medium-weight merino, thin fleece + soft shell
Colder than -10C: change thin fleece to thick fleece
Colder than -20C: change thick fleece to wool ( medium-heavy) + add polyester base to legs, cover face
Colder than -30C: Nope! Not doing it!
Only problem area is feet. I adjust the settings of my Thermics accordingly, but still the first to freeze.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just wear one normal base layer under my ski jacket and salopettes. I can't be doing with loads of layers. The coldest temperatures I have ever encountered whilst skiing were about -15 (but with a colder wind chill) and yes, it can be a bit chilly on the chairlift but I always get warm whilst skiing.
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FAQ
but keeps the cold off your face and, as it has proper mouth and nose vents, doesn't tend to get soggy from breaths. Otherwise I don't tend really to wear anything extra other than to make sure my thermals are the long legged ones, my mid-layer is the thicker one, and I wear the down inner jacket to my outer shell.
