 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't know the Mountain Hardwear gear but my new go-everywhere jacket is a Patagonia 'Stretch Element' which is a sort of semi-soft shell and it gets used for everything from walking and hill running and for all of my skiing. It has enough pocket space to carry the usual crap you find yourself needing in your pocket when you're on the mountain and is stretchy enough to allow fleece & merino layers etc underneath. The hood expands to wrap around a helmet which is incredibly nice when conditions are really cold and wild and the whole thing is light enough and packs small enough to stuff away in a backpack if conditions require.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2545
Mine was £75 (reduced from £300) at the Ellis Brigham marquee sale in Glasgow last year so was even more of a bargain than your offer and now that I've come to appreciate just how versatile it is, I'd pay double for it. It has picked up a small nick from somewhere that maybe a conventional ski jacket would have resisted but other than that, its condition after 40-50 uses is pristine.
PS. Mine is very definitely waterproof.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| tomb wrote: |
| Does anyone here have any experience with these new bread of completely waterproof softshells? |
As usual, "softshell" has been diluted so much by marketers that it no longer has any meaning.
All waterproof softshells of this type are ultimately boring old 3-layer shells with stretchy fabrics. They'll breathe and dry like a conventional hardshell but they'll feel nicer and will be a bit less rustly in use. Treat em like a hardshell in all other respects, and I'm sure you're familiar enough with those to make your own judgement on their worthiness 
I prefer conventional non-stretchy hardshells because they don't attract such a big marketing tax, but as this one is at a pretty steep discount there's no particular reason to avoid it, if its some kind of hardshell you're after.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Serriadh, +1
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I bought a soft shell jacket from decathlon for about £50. It's far and away the best jacket I've ever owned, and does as good a job in the rain as my £200 waterproof.
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Timbobaggins,
Has to be done at those prices 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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tomb, Not sure about dryQ, but I've been very interested in polartec neoshell. It is a none membrane fabric which is the next step in the powershield fabric evolution. This is different from some of the other new range of fabrics because it's not a full membrane, it's basically a windproof fabric that has been improved to reduce water ingress.
It's hydrostatic head is not as great as the likes of goretex but it's still enough to keep out a downpour, and the lack of a full membrane means it will breathe better.
The fabric is quite versatile and given it's softshell roots it has been developed into two versions; a hard shell and a soft shell, with the difference between the two being that the softshell has a wicking type inner face, which makes it slightly warmer and the hardshell has a smooth face like a normal hardshell.
I really like the polartec powershield thevfabric was developed from and even managed to find a pair a ski pants on eBay earlier this year made from the stuff. It is a thin windproof fabric which breates much better than gores windstopper fabric, so I want to go the next step and get the neoshell, but I don't like any of the jackets using it yet.
Rab have a stretch version, which is good, but I don't get on with the rab hood, and also it uses a lot of fleece backing for wicking so it's a bit on the heavy side in my opinion. So ideally I'd like a longer cut, better fit jacket, with a neoshell lite fabric for skiing.
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| It is a none membrane fabric which is the next step in the powershield fabric evolution. This is different from some of the other new range of fabrics because it's not a full membrane, it's basically a windproof fabric that has been improved to reduce water ingress. |
It is a membrane. Polartec even describe it as such in their marketing blurb. It has rather different physical properties to the usual suspects, but is still a three layer membrane hardshell with all of the tradeoffs that entails. Even Powershield had a membrane of sorts, but it was sufficiently porous that no-one would be using it as a waterproof.
Neoshell does fulfil the principle requirement of the new school of "soft" shells, in that it facilitates significant cost markups.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thing is if you shop right you can buy a decent softshell that you can wear when you don't want the full protection of a hardshell. I found myself wishing I had a lightweight softshell to keep the weather off but still be really breathable when going uphill last year. Sweating in a pro-shell bag is horrendous even with decent pit venting. I ended up buying a RAB Alpine Jacket which uses Pertex Equilibrium as the fabric. It's super lightweight and packs to essentially nothing so will sit inside my pack ready to use, with my ProShell jacket there for skiing back down and really nasty weather. A mate of mine won a NeoShell jacket so will see how he gets on with it and report back.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yeah, the Rab Alpine is great little bit of gear. Good hood too, which is kinda unusual for something with such light fabric. I'd call it a wind shell rather than a soft shell, though 
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I've also got the rab alpine, but on the slopes I prefer my patagonia ascentionsit - its a thicker, stretchable windproof but very breathable - more substantial than pertex
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You know it makes sense.
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Sack the Juggler, yer I'm not ditching my hardshell jacket at all! This is purely for when I'm going uphill on skins/bootpacking which is normally done in just a baselayer top. I apparently heat up really well with a little bit of exercise so can't stand to have much more on. I doubt I'd bother bringing it along if I was skiing from lifts.
Serriadh, you have a horribly specific definition of soft-shell. Also all the Rab jackets have awesome hoods, love the wire brims in all the jackets from them I have. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yeah, the Ascensionist is more like what I'd call a "soft shell"; tough stretchy nylon stuff. I wouldn't want to risk the Alpine in trees, and I don't know how many times it would cope with me wiping out on an icy piste, either! I've got a Rab Exodus that's similar to the Ascensionist, but with a heavier weight of fabric. Doesn't get used so much for skiing these days, mind you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| meh wrote: |
| Serriadh, you have a horribly specific definition of soft-shell. |
Back in the day, before it meant "Ooh, a new sales opportunity!" it generally referred to highly breathable, robust, non-membrane, non-insulating stretchy stuff that you might want if you're an ice climber; the sort of past time when getting wet ends up being inevitable. That is a fairly specific definition, but at least it actually had meaning beyond "This is what you should spend your money on this year, consumer".
Membrane stuff takes too long to dry once you've soaked it, and can't ever breathe nearly as well as any non-membrane fabric (the two issues are related), and so even if it is soft, stretchy and worn on the outside it is unhelpful to call it the same thing as a fabric that's so massively different. Pertex windshells have existed for years too, so they don't need to be subsumed into the "lets call everything softshell" category either
I'd perhaps lump Paramo, Pile/Pertex, Rab's Vapour Rise and similar things (Montane and Marmot do this sort of stuff) into a broader category of soft shells, but as they're not even remotely sexy products they'd not get purchased as such. I'm aware I'm on the losing side of this particular battle of terminology, doesn't make me less grumpy though
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 11-09-12 17:12; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Serriadh, lol, nice rant!
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