 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, this post is addressed to experienced ski instructors :
a) How quickly do you reckon a fit, middle aged, bold but average, english skiier could progress from intermediate to advanced ? ive skiied red & black runs badly with confidence for decades, 1 week a year, but can now manage some time off & would like to improve my technique, initially on piste, and afterwards touring offpiste.
b) how best should training be structured ?
I could manage a 3 week trip at the beginning of the season and follow thereafter with a 1 week trip every 3 weeks, or 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off etc
c) would I be better trying to go for 4-6 weeks intensive training initially?
d) would attending one of the english-spoken run ski schools every morning be best, or 2 hours private 1:1 lessons a day be better ?
e) is it advisable to stick with the same instructor, or change regularly ?
I'm thinking of going to chamonix, or val d'isere, possibly renting a studio or flatshare for a season, but am flexible on other suggestions. I'd like to go somewhere I could bump into a few others of my vintage - 50  , but not verbier.
f) so which resort/school or private instructor would anyone recommend?
g) should I stick to one resort, or keep trying new ones ?
thanks in advance
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Go to the view from Val D'Isere thread and search out a Steve who teaches in Val in winter, I m sure he will point you in the right direction
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Go to the view from Val D'Isere thread and search out a Steve who teaches in Val in winter, I m sure he will point you in the right direction
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Buzzfan wrote: |
| Hi, this post is addressed to experienced ski instructors... |
OK. That's not me, but I'll answer anyway.
I assume that by 'Advanced', you mean a strong recreational skier who'll tackle, with a fair degree of fluency and confidence, anything on piste and almost anything off piste regardless of conditions. According to that fairly relaxed definition, all of my family are advanced skiers so I can tell you how the progression looks and feels from the punter's end.
For us, by far the most rapid progression has come from private lessons interspersed with free practice in resorts with an abundance of advanced skiing. Too often, group lessons end up progressing at the rate of the slowest learner. If the group is together for more than a couple of days, that's a disaster if you're ambitious. And, although it's an extraordinarily unpopular thing to say around here, everyone in my family has consistently improved most quickly when we've been in North America - the constant availability of inbounds off-piste, avalanche controlled with no guide required, means that we are much more able to find consistently challenging terrain when we ski over there. Also, although individual instructors obviously vary, my family's experience of several dozen lessons on each side of the pond is that progression during lessons is sharply more rapid over there.
I think that it's best to use a variety of instructors. Each will have their own strengths and weaknesses as a teacher, and you want to be a well-rounded pupil. After 3-4 half days with an instructor, your pace of learning will be likely to slow down. It's time to change.
If I had time and money to spare and were trying to break out of the intermediate plateau, I'd spread 7-10 half-day private lessons over three weeks in a place like Jackson Hole. Then I'd take a two week break with a few gym sessions, some cycling and some running to allow my body a little recovery time. I'd follow that up with a course like this one (the ski school is excellent there in my experience) and then head off to Canada for some heliskiing. Not cheap, but you'd have a whale of a time and learn to tackle some serious stuff.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Buzzfan, You could try Steve Angus as stefoy4me, suggested hope its the same person he was thinking of but give him a week cos he's on his honeymoon!
Plus why not try some UK based courses to get you going you can not go wrong with http://www.insideoutskiing.com/
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good to have a season-long goal of making a step change in your ability. Assuming budget is not too much of an issue, at the start of the season I'd recommend starting of with some private lessons to look at your core technique, probably working on piste. This would give you a good idea of what your strengths and weaknesses are, and identify some things to work on to improve your skiing. I think you should then plan later in the season to do some specialist off-piste courses which last a week, perhaps with an element of instruction and guiding.
I don't think it is absolutely necessary to change instructors providing you find a good one who you are happy to work with and who you have confidence in. A good instructor will relish the chance to help a client make long term changes to their skiing. In my own teaching if I think a client is committed to long-term improvement it is good to be able to build really solid foundations in their skiing rather than cover as many bases as is possible in a short amount of time. If you chop and change instructors on a frequent basis you will lose that sense of long term goals and continuity of understanding that you can develop between client and coach. Maybe try two or perhaps three recommended instructors to find someone you like, but after that I'd stick with the same one for that season.
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livetoski,
| Quote: |
Steve Angus as stefoy4me, suggested hope its the same person he was thinking of but give him a week cos he's on his honeymoon!
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Did he get married at the Mairie in Aime per chance? As we drove by last week there was a Bridegroom in full Kilt etc and holding some antique ski's.
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Time. Consecutive weeks (as many as possible). Add in private lessons, probably two or three a week - and make sure you practise in your free time as well as jsut freeski. Watch videos of better skiers (and form the lifts too), and compare to videos of yourself. Start the season with a period of more intense training (probably at least two weeks of going right back to basics) to break the bad habits, and, if you have the budget, add in periods of more intense training throughout the season - week long mogul/race/freeride camps, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would agree with Clarky999, it is better to be working on it consistantly rather than intermittantly ie stay out for a few weeks.
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+1 for private lessons but inter spaced with lots of self practice of what you learn in the lessons.
Don't try to run before you can walk properly and a good attitude for learning with lots of humility will never goes amiss.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Buzzfan, Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Some great advice all round.
I have a student based in Tokyo - American, 50 years or age - who spends a couple of weeks up with me on Hokkaido, Japan getting set at the start of the season and then skis for long weekends / week every month throughout the season.
The benefits of this schedule to him are :
he has a long enough opportunity initially to get set for the season
he has time away from snow to look at pics and video for the new learning to sink in
he has a number of opportunities throughout the winter in different snow conditions and in different resorts to consolidate his learning,
and when ready learn more
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 4-09-12 11:23; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Buzzfan, IMHO time on snow is key, experiencing different types of snow, and terrain etc.
I think this should be a journey, not a quick fix, if you could spend regular time throughout the season, getting in the practise with some good instruction then I do think you'd notice changes by the end of the season.
I do think joining some kind of focused group would be a good place to start, as you can easily get bored/dispirited if you are on your own.
But taking a step back 
Do you have well fitting and comfortable boots, fitted by a professional boot fitter? If not, get these asap.
There are some places you could look at for courses, and also some events in the UK indoor snow centres which could perhaps give you some initial guidance and feedback?
Try these links
http://www.insideoutskiing.com/
http://snoworks.co.uk/
http://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
b) how best should training be structured ?
I could manage a 3 week trip at the beginning of the season and follow thereafter with a 1 week trip every 3 weeks, or 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off etc |
You would get a lot of benefit from booking into one of the early season Instructor technical training courses for that period, and perhaps including some introduction to race training and bumps. Phil Smith runs courses in Tignes that would fit the bill.
3 or 4 weeks of that with good coaches will give you enough to think about for the rest of the season. I'd then be tempted to 'top-up' with another technical course towards the mid\end of season depending on how you feel things are going.
In terms of 'resort' the trick will be to find a suitable group of peers to ski with - that's probably going to make more difference than the actual resort. If you can hook up with some Instructors or trainee instructors so much the better.
If you can combine your selected resort with the location of one of your coaches from the initial 3 week training then you'll be able call on them to give you occasional feedback as you need.
I'm not sure that 'spot' lessons will be all that effective but finding a coach (or coaches) that you can work with over time will.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lessons and practice. It's great if you can string consecutive weeks skiing. Warren Smith runs excellent courses, though not in France, but you can even start with them in UK. If you go private, it's worth sticking with the same instructor as he will be in a good position to monitor your progress. And patience. You might even have to take a step back to re-learn what you think you know well. The change won't happen overnight, but it will. Any resort with a good variety of terrain will be good for what you are looking for. Chamonix is a good option. You can start with general "piste" courses and progress to off-piste from there and only then to touring. Basically, solid piste technique is essential. Many skiers think they do piste well and only struggle off it (powder/bumps), but really when their skiing is analysed, they are often found fairly off balance on piste even without realising especially when they ski fast, so this is what they need to work on first. Every other skill is incremental.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Learn to ski gates, in the spring, summer and autumn if in GB, on plastic or snow dome, will bring on your turning and carving skills very quickly. All of the above recommended instructors did.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You will find some good pre-season training weeks in Nov/ Dec. I am in Kaprun again 8 Dec all mountain with Skivolution (as referred to by Countryman) and probably the other UK ones are similar (Warren Smith and Snoworks and Inside Out for xample)-----great coaches you can talk to, with you all day, , comparable classmates and 6 max, back to basic technique if required, eye-opening ideas about objectives, excelllent terrain, video feedback, and good fun.
Make notes of key points, and practice them in your free skiing. Good basics are essential to build on.Don't do social weeks as they won't improve you at all but do ski in comparable keen company.
Stick with BASI instructors until you have a confident platform.... they seem to have a common hymn sheet whilst europeans (though excellent) sometimes see things differently and aren't so easy to talk to, and they can vary for each of the four main skiing countries. A mixture of them caused me confusion a few years back.
I have (I think ) reached Advanced, where you want to get and I wish I had done what I set out above much earlier and more intensively, as you are intending. You can reach Expert...I left it too late.
Oh, I have built on my training weeks in Chill Factore ....indoor snow does help if you can get in with the right instructor level. Also, get fit ! . You will be asking a lot of your body and you don't want breakdowns.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Make it a full season - find folks who ski gud who'll tolerate you hanging around then follow them everywhere.
More seriously - don't overegg the lessons - repeating the same weekly courses will give you diminishing returns. A few days 1 on 1 then repeated healthchecks with the same instructor over a season will give you enough air to develop.
If you can get on a course early season that will get you exposed to seasonnaire that can be ski buddies for the rest of the winter that's obviously desirable. Don't know whether this means getting on an in resort Instructor programme or early season BASI 1 week? Whether you pass or not is irrelevant really but it might give you a foundation to build on.
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cran
cran
Guest
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I reckon one or two private sessions a week of 2 hours one on one with a good instructor is good value in terms improvement v cost.
Also just go off piste straight away. You can do the piste stuff when the snow/weather is bad.
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kitenski, As you mentioned boot fitters Profeet in Fulham Road are said to be good
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Buzzfan,
I am not an instructor.
I don't think you have defined the problem adequately.
Really truly what do you think constitutes what you want to be able to do.
Skiing gates is a great exercise, but might not help.
Ignoring technique and just going off piste will be tiring and probably counter productive.
You almost certainly have a middle age of engraved errors that need to be ironed out.
But I think, humbly, that you need a better defined objective. Also, an awareness, that through this season and those to come, that that objective by necessity will evolve.
If you were asked what single accomplishment would mean that you had achieved your goal, what would it be?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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WTF................. just go ski!
The moment you begin to intellectualise your objectives and skiing .......... you miss the point of skiing, and put yourself first!
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Oh the irony
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skimastaaah wrote: |
WTF................. just go ski!
The moment you begin to intellectualise your objectives and skiing .......... you miss the point of skiing, and put yourself first!
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Nope. The more you think, the more it becomes instinct, and the less you have to think whilst actually skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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clarky999, That's my thinking.
Conscious, intentional practice.
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You know it makes sense.
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skimastaaah, I think you're missing the point. People are talking about training and practice, not free skiing. Conscious, intentional practice (I like that phrase) enables you to develop skills at a deep enough level so that you can ski with a quiet mind using those skills autonomously.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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http://www.masterclass.f9.co.uk
If you're planning on shuttling back and forth between the UK and resort, travel and transfer costs will mount up. Public transport from airports to Alpe d'Huez is cheap and convenient.
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimastaaah, Rob gets my point exactly (I'd be astonished if he didn't!)
While there is no right way to ski, there are an infinite number of very wrong ways, all of which are aesthetically unpleasant, desperately inefficient and miserable to the skier.
But without having the first idea of what you want to be able to do, you'll certainly never achieve it.
Go on. Define "advanced" as the OP really means for us... 
Perhaps "advanced" simply means being able to ski with confidence on hard pack? Or maybe, with confidence on a steep pitch?
Or maybe it means being able to zip line a competition bumps field?
All of these are, to my mind, valid "intermediate" to "advanced" transitions... Depending, of course, how you set those definitions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Buzzfan, Lots of great advice on this thread for you , out of curiosity when you say "intermediate" to "advanced" could you have a look at our levels guide to see where you are currently at as well as where you would like to get to.
I would probably try a couple of instructors out early in the season, find one you click with and use him/her more consistently over the season. As a coach gets to know you and your skiing well you will make more rapid progress and not have to wasted time reviewing your goals, what you have worked on, etc with a stream of new people. If you can assemble a training group with a few like minded people who are into skiing AND getting better at the same time you can share coaching costs and help each other as opposed to just hooning around.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
find folks who ski gud who'll tolerate you hanging around then follow them everywhere.
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my son did that when he was working in Val D'Isere, sometimes, because he shared a flat with a top British ski instructor. However, he was a pretty good skier before he started - and he only skied with them on their days off. Having always been the best, by far, in a family group or with mates, he discovered (in his words) that actually, he could hardly ski at all!
If you are a pretty ordinary sort of skier, people who look to you like they ski gud might not be very good role models, and certainly might lack judgement about off piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Skiing gates is a great exercise, but might not help.
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Why on earth not, I was not suggesting as an excercise but as part of development.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| ...While there is no right way to ski, there are an infinite number of very wrong ways, all of which are aesthetically unpleasant... |
What an extraordinary idea! Would you like to help me understand why any skier should have the remotest interest in the aesthetic qualities of their skiing? I ski for my own pleasure, not for the benefit of those watching me. I'm not so insecure that I need approving nods from passers by.
I have a lot of sympathy with skimastaaah's views. It would be a tragedy to spend a season simply chasing an elusive 'advanced' will o' th' wisp. You need to have fun on the way; as has been said, feel the mountain.
I regard advanced skiing as the removal of obstacles. Can I ski well enough to have fun under any snow conditions? On any slope that I want to tackle? At exhilarating speeds? Without being left behind by my ski buddies? All day without needing recovery breaks? Without placing myself into danger? In powder, through the trees, over huge bumps, through rock lines, over drops. When you can ski pretty much everything that you want to ski at the speed that you want to ski it, you're a sufficiently advanced skier. Anything else is vanity - unless, of course, you make your living from the sport.
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Jonny Jones, if it looks wrong, unbalanced, inefficient and out of sync, it probably is - which means the skier is limiting themselves. No-one has suggested spending all season doing dedicated training. No-one has suggested don't freeski and have fun. But the majority if intermediate holiday skiers have serious ingrained bad habits, which are a pretty big barrier to what you refer to in your last paragraph. Spending time to fix those habits and improve technique, will allow the OP to ski like that, by instinct, without having to think. Which is a pretty damn awesome state to be in and leads to some amazing times.
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Jonny Jones, or until your dodgy technique means you break yourself!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Jonny Jones, or until your dodgy technique means you break yourself!! |
I never suggested that anyone should persist with any bad technique that harms their skiing. But seeking to improve the aesthetic qualities of your skiing as an end in itself is a bizarre proposition. And worrying about technical issues that have no impact on the type of skiing to which you aspire is similarly strange.
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Jonny Jones, I think you might be taking one comment ("aesthetically unpleasant") and rather taking it out of context. The sentence as written by under a new name makes sense to me. I have no interest in "stylish skiing", not least because it can easily become contrived and inefficient, but as clarky999 said, ugly skiing is often ineffective skiing.
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FAQ
