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1st ski purchase - advice please !

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello All,

need some help from you ski experts !

OK, just looked at ski hire prices for my trip to St Anton in January and shocked by the v. high prices !
I'm a 1 or (if lucky) 2 weeks a year person - A classic rubbish intermediate level who struggles on mogully runs (ie steeper or ungroomed blacks)

So this has made me think about getting myself a pair of ski's instead, as the relative cost increase will be lower.
Totally confused as what to get. want to buy in UK and try to find a bargain
BUDGET is 200-300 for skis & bindings - so I'm looking for discounted models from last season.

Last year I rented some Atomic Vf 75 DF skis 166cm - I'm 175cm tall and will probably be ~85kg post xmas

Those skis were fantastic - really easy to ski, even when tired at the end of the day.
Also they let me zoom about on groomed runs ( sometimes at 40-50mph) while I tried to learn how to carve a good turn.

I sometimes get dragged away from the groomed pistes, so a ski that will cope with that would be a bonus.
I'm not about to start skiing any powder (though I'd be dragged that way by my snowboarding pals if any did appear)

I can't afford to buy those ski's new. I'm also a bit too nervous to buy second hand from ebay etc.

SO, any recomendations about types of ski, actuall models or even any bargains that are currently available ?

I have seen some Nordica 'hot-rod ingniter ti' skis for 230 quid which are 170cm long - Ok price, but wrong size ?

other 'bargains' I spotted that may well be the wrong ski or not :

nordica? outland 80 (not pro)
fischer motive 76
rossignol experiaence 78

biggest problem is that the manufacturers do not give any useful information about chooseing th correct length ski as far as I can tell !

Thannks All,

Gareth.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hi Gareth

The D2 VF75 is available here for just over £300;

http://www.sport-bittl.de/Skisport/Allmountain-Ski/ATOMIC-D2-VF75-11-12::9032.html

They only have a 175 left which might be a touch too long for you. Something around the 170 mark would probably suit you better. If you can decipher the link above they are very good and helpful. I don't speak or read any German but managed to understand enough to look around and spoke to a very helpful guy on the phone who spoke English when I wanted to order.

Good luck finding something.

It may also be worth mentioning as I'm sure everybody else who replies will!! Do you already have boots? If not they may be a better first investment than skis.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SportPursuit are doing K2 skis with bindings that are well within your price range.
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fatgaz,

The Outland 80 XT is Dynastar not Nordica, but sounds like it might fit the bill.

£320 + £20 postage on fleabay for 2012 model - the 2013 will probably be out of your price range:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2012-DYNASTAR-LEGEND-OUTLAND-XT-80-SKIS-172-including-fluid-NX12-bindings-/270866414211


edit - [b]ScottyDog[b] is selling the VF82 for £325

http://www.edgeandwax.co.uk/166038/products/atomic_d2_vf_82_skis_with_bindings.aspx
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
musher, There's none of those Atomic in stock!!
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Hi peeps,

yes have boots. (that took a while to get fitted properly, but are now snug and comfy) old Xwave 10s

I'll have a good look at those sites people have mentioned tonight.

(I though I might have got the make wrong with those outland ski's !)

As I remember, a rule of thumb for shaped piste skis was to have them ~10 cm shorter than you were ~ nose level.
BUT with all the recent tech I'm really confused.

Will some of these 80mm wide ski's that have some rocker - ie the outland - be much harder to ski on nice groomed pistes?

Am I right in thinking if a ski has a bit of a rocker, you should go slightly longer than a traditional cambered ski ?

G.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
fatgaz, Skis with a bit of rocker (usually some early rise in a tip) won't be harder to ski on groomed pistes. many manufacturers are now adding some tip rocker even at their beginner level models as early rise in a tip will make turn initiation easier since it reduces the effective edge of a ski making it easier to control. It will also make a ski easier to pivot because more of it is already off the snow. You can go slightly longer with a slightly rockered ski, but don't go overboard unless the rocker is substantial (i.e. reduces the effective edge by 30% or more), forehead or top of your head level will be plenty. Fully rockered (reversed camber) skis will be harder to ski on groomers and will require some techinique ajustment though. But they will let you ski powder if it's not even there:). If you want skis that will let you play a bit off-piste aim for skis with not too much waist as they will be less grabby. 80-90 mm waist should let you ski both on an off-piste fairly comfortably. Skis with flat and square tails tend to be less forgiving in bumpy terrain, rounded raised tails release smoother. Avoid soft park-type skis as they will be awfull on hardpack groomers. Medium to stiff flex will be better.
Also, once you have your own skis you will have to pay for their transportation and service. But having your own skis will save time you spend in a ski hire shops. Regardless of whether you buy a brand new latest model skis or second or third-hand skis, service and transportation costs will the the same. So take this into consideration too.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fatgaz, what ever you do remember to get two.

ed
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
fatgaz, I've got a new pair of 2012 Salomon Enduro lx800 if you're interested. They sound like they could fit most of your requirements. I've sent you a pm with the details, if not I'll be putting them up for sale on here (well the Buy, Sell section) next week
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Sport pursuit have some deals on K2 skis at the moment for very good prices within your price range. Have a look if interested. http://www.sportpursuit.com/join/Andy06
There is a huge selection available though so i'd suggest going to a demo day if you can and try a variety of skis before you buy any just so you are happy with the pair you end up with. That been said i'd suggest something like never summer suggested with a waist of around about 80mm for a general all mountain type ski. As for the slight rocker, i doubt you'd notice too much difference as in my experience it makes the ski slightly more forgiving.
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ed123 wrote:
fatgaz, what ever you do remember to get two.
ed


must make sure I get skis AND bindings.

I will need to also remember to get poles and a decent ski bag..... more cash ....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
never summer wrote:
fatgaz, Skis with a bit of rocker (usually some early rise in a tip) won't be harder to ski on groomed pistes. many manufacturers are now adding some tip rocker even at their beginner level models as early rise in a tip will make turn initiation easier since it reduces the effective edge of a ski making it easier to control. It will also make a ski easier to pivot because more of it is already off the snow.


OK, so they tend to feel shorter (though still as heavy) when skidding turns etc. , but will probably carve along the whole edge ?

Quote:

Skis with flat and square tails tend to be less forgiving in bumpy terrain, rounded raised tails release smoother.


anything that helps me in the bigger moguls is a good thing
(had a nightmare last year on an un-bashed black run; 3-4 ft high moguls ate me up and spat me out at least twice- was enough to stop me trying the swiss wall, despite apparently easy conditions - those were intimidating moguls!)

Quote:

You can go slightly longer with a slightly rockered ski, but don't go overboard unless the rocker is substantial (i.e. reduces the effective edge by 30% or more), forehead or top of your head level will be plenty. If you want skis that will let you play a bit off-piste aim for skis with not too much waist as they will be less grabby. 80-90 mm waist should let you ski both on an off-piste fairly comfortably. Medium to stiff flex will be better.


I think I'll avoid anything more than 80mm. seems like 75-80 should be OK I hope. Maybe I should only go 170 max in length?

plenty to think about.

thanks,

Gareth.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
fatgaz,
Quote:

OK, so they tend to feel shorter (though still as heavy) when skidding turns etc. , but will probably carve along the whole edge ?


The effective edge ends where the rocker starts.

As for big moguls, do a LOT of smaller ones focusing on controlling your speed and developing some rythm. Increase steepness of mogul runs and size of bumps gradually. When you look at moguls you will see where they are less steep than the slope and where they are steeper than the slope; this wil give you a line - turn on the less steep side and slip down the steeper side. Look where you are going, plant the pole first (good firm plant but make sure it doesn't block your turn) and turn once you get front and back of your skis off the snow. Keep feet closer and rotate them simultaneously and not in sequence. Pivot slips and short turns are a good practice on groomed slopes. I am by no means mogul expert but I love them and the more I do them the easier they become.

And yes, 170 cm will be sufficient length in a type of skis you seem to be looking into.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
OK people, what do you think of this short list ? any dogs to avoid ? any gems to pounce on ?

~~ my preference is for something in this price range ~~

blackeye (non ti) {123/82/108) 167cm £ 215
bit fat & not stiff enough?

k2 amp charger 2011 {122/74/106) 167cm £ 249
quite(too) stiff ? 10% rocker tip

nordica hot-rod ignitor-ti {123-76-107} 170cm £ 230
bit stiff ? too long ?

~~ then stepping up in price ~~

HEAD-iPeak-78 170cm 350euro=£ 292
don't know about these.

Dynastar Outland 80 Skis (not pro) 172cm £ 302
probably too long ??

k2 amp riktor + mx12 80mm 167cm 390euro=£ 325
very stiff so very heavy ?

nordica-firearrow 80 ti 164 or 172cm £ 357
132-80-115mm metal & big & wide = very heavy ?
---------

I like the idea of a little bit of tip rocker and a slight twin-tip.

I'm a bit worried about getting ski's that are (not fun because)
a) very heavy.
b). so stiff you can't cruse around slowly with your mates, or just too much ski for when I'm tired.
c). are too long.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm not going to comment on the skis because there's people who know a lot more about this than me. But I thought I'd share my experience of last year because, like you, I've always struggled with moguls and off-piste, despite skiing twice a year, being very fit, etc. I ski with some guys who can ski the really tricky stuff so I've always struggled to keep up when it gets a bit tasty.

I'm 186cm (that's 6ft 2 in old money) and I've always hired skis that were 175cm.

But I tried skiing with shorter skis last year and it was a revelation.

I hired some all terrain skis that were 163cm long - all of a sudden I became Mr Mogul, and felt like I was dancing down the mogul fields. I was told that I would be sacrificing a bit of high speed stability, but actually it was never a problem.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
[quote='Fatmanoffpiste']
I'm 186cm (that's 6ft 2 in old money) and I've always hired skis that were 175cm.
But I tried skiing with shorter skis last year and it was a revelation.
I hired some all terrain skis that were 163cm long - all of a sudden I became Mr Mogul,
[\quote]

which skis where those ? and if you don;t mind the question, how heavy are you ?
it's an interesting point you make.

I think a too stiff and too long ski could be a bad combination for me.

thinking back to last year, I did on occasion feel that the atomic vf75's wanted to go faster that I did.
so I felt that I was needing to skid my turns too much to slow down.
(I had put this down to my incompitance and probably not skiing proper S shapes and failing to finish my turns,
but I wonder if it could have been the stiffness of the ski ?)

I wonder if the K2 impact would actually be the sort of thing I'd want or the sal rx800 ?
ie a quality ski, but just toned down a level.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I found a couple of pairs of last years K2 impact for sale at 300 quid (list 425)
BUT one is 160cm, the other 174cm !

not sure if I should maybe go for the 160cm

OR try the K2 rictor (or K2 charger) at 167cm and risk them being too stiff.

argh. confused. don't think I;m going to be in the position to try them out either.

G.

ALSO, spotted an old pair of Sally Xwing tornados on ebay - the non ti version, I'm tempted if the price stays sane.
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