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Snowsure in late december?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So here is the deal, my family ( 3 ppl) is going to europe on the 17th of december. We're going to London then Paris and then on the 28th somewhere to ski, but we need to be back to London on the 6th for our 16:15 flight. So here is what i need help with, I'm trying to find a place that most likely will have good snow on the 28th and that is not too hard to get to from Paris, and not too expensive to go back to London. Yeah i realize this is very specific.

Unfortunatly this is the only period of time we can travel and I'm finding it hard to find a cheaper place to go to that is snowsure. Also i would like to know what i can do to make the skiing part of the trip cheaper, any advice or tip is apreciated. This is our second time going to ski in europe but the other time we went in late february, so it was much cheaper and we knew there would be snow. Oh, also, my mom is a begginer my brother is as most an intermediate and I'm an advanced skier. Best regard from Brazil and thanks.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kkxtrouble, welcome to Snowheads. You'll get lot of advice here, and lots of different suggestions. Where did you go on your first trip? what did you like and dislike about it?

Late December isn't too bad for snow - you'd be unlucky to find no snow, in any mainstream resort, though obviously it is a bit early in the season, as you recognise.

One problem you might be finding is that 28 Dec is a Friday, and a lot of European ski trips organised by tour operators will start on Saturday or Sunday.

What kind of accommodation are you looking for? In France, in that very busy period, most hotels and rented accommodation will work on standard Sat/Sat weeks. It could work well to go skiing from 29 Dec - 5 January, and be back in London on 5 Jan ready for your flight home on the 6th - it would be a bit risky leaving it till the 6th to get to London; travel can be very disrupted by bad weather at that time of year.

Tips for saving money? Well, that's about the most expensive week in the whole ski season, so there's a limit to what you can do, but some accommodation, and some resorts, are a lot less expensive than others. Generally the cheapest way is to rent a small apartment, cook for yourselves and avoid drinking in bars! Smaller resorts will have cheaper lift passes, though they're always a major item. Booking hired ski equipment in advance, on the internet, can also save you money - and again, some places are more expensive for rented gear than others.

You will presumably want to fly? That shouldn't be a big problem.

Stand back and wait for lots of suggestions.

snowHead snowHead snowHead
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
From Paris most logical is to look at trains down to somewhere like Moutiers , a hotel near the station then an early morning bus up to a resort. Self catering appartment for the week needn't break the bank and you might ski the last day then overnight back in the valley before a morning transfer to GVA and a flight back to LHR.
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The train times don't appear for the Paris to Moutiers / Aime / Bourg St Maurice route until approximately 3 months before the date of travel. Look on www.sncf.fr or www.raileurope to look at current train times, duration of journey and prices.
Aim for the higher ski areas such as Paradiski, 3 valleys, Espace Killy. It isn't a total guarantee of snow at that time of year but in recent seasons the early snow cover has been good in those areas.
If the train fares are excessive for that period it may be worth hiring a car from Paris and driving down, it is around 7 to 8 hours drive on a good journey. You could hire the car from Paris and return it to the car hire desk at whichever airport you decide to fly back from. It is worth looking at the small print in the contract as they sometimes charge you an extra one-way rental fee.

A good site to find the best flights from the Alps to London is www.skyscanner.net . There are a number of airports in that area that have flights to London. Look at flights from Chambery, Geneva, Lyon and Grenoble.

Everything else apart from the train journey will be available to book now but it is one of the most expensive weeks of the season for accommodation and travel to and from the Alps.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Friday night overnight train (with couchettes) from Paris (normally Gare Austerlitz) to Bourg St Maurice for Tignes/Val d'Isere (or get out earlier at Moutier for Les Trois Vallee) - all good for early snow. Ski 8 full days (7 nights, Saturday to Saturday) and take overnight train back to Paris, arriving about 6.15 in the morning of the Sunday.
Tickets normally become available 120 days before (at midnight French time). There are cheaper tickets which sell out very quickly.
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pam w wrote:
Kkxtrouble, welcome to Snowheads. You'll get lot of advice here, and lots of different suggestions. Where did you go on your first trip? what did you like and dislike about it?
snowHead snowHead snowHead

Thanks. The first time we went to Andorra and we liked pretty much eveything, i guess other than the lift price eveything was perfect, we got a great deal as the hotel included equipment rent and half pension. The snow was great and everything went as expected.

Anyway, I guess we'll be staying at a rented apartment or something like that, which is no problem at all; I'm checking all the areas mentioned by you guys to see what is the best option. My mais concern is still transportation, I'm still seeing if we'll go by train or not. Car is pretty much not an option unless everything else is way too expensive.

Now, i got a few more questions if it's not much trouble. About train tickets - is it better to buy as soon as they are avaible ( considering the period) or wait a little for a possibility of the prices to lower? Is there any difference like that? I really have no idea.

Oh, also, what exactly would be an expensive pass, and what would be a cheap one? Having skied mostly in South America i don't really have a good idea.

Thanks guys for all the help, you've all been wonderful.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
For the chance of good snow, consider Tignes or Val, Alp D'Huez, Mottaret
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Kkxtrouble, I'm no train expert - only been skiing once by train. But I think prices will go up, not down, as do air fares.

That's a very expensive week to ski, but you can fly very cheaply from Paris to Geneva on 29 December (rather surprisingly) with easyJet. Return flight to London on 5 January is very expensive - 170 euros at present, and likely to rise.

You can get to loads of places from Geneva. It might be a good idea to book flights now, and then ponder accommodation.

If you look at ski-express.com you can search for holidays including accommodation, lift pass and hire of equipment. If you click the logo on the top right you get it in english. There are a huge number of ski resorts - to save cash, don't go for the big name resorts. Valloire, for example, is a good resort, plenty of skiing for a week, more French atmosphere, far lower prices. Less than 500 euros a week including accommodation, lift pass and ski hire. Probably 150 euros more in a big resort (where every coffee will cost twice as much, too).

You would need to factor in the cost of transfer to resort, which is a major item - car hire is often the cheapest way, with 3 of you.

For ease of arrangements, might be better to fly back to London and do a package, with flight and transfer included, with a British tour operator. But prices will be higher - a quick look at Crystal, for example, suggests over £600 for transport and accommodation. Add ski hire and ski pass costs to that, and you're looking at around £900 a head, without eating a single sandwich.

At low season times (e.g. mid January) you can wait for a last minute deal on package holidays. But not at New Year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Unless you are travelling light I would advise you against EasyJet. If you need to get from Geneva to London definitey check with Swiss and BA. Sometimes even buying return ticket with Swiss (and not using the second leg) might be cheaper than one way EasyJet and they don't charge for checking-in your luggage. Another factor to consider is than in case of weather causing delays or strikes, regular airlines will have a priority and easyJet etc. can be delayed indefinitely. I had to fly to London once late December when it was snowing rather heavily for few days (and this is not unusual this time of a year) and while my BA fight was delayed for 3 hours all easyJet flights for the day were cancelled. Since you need to travel further after arriving to London, think about it when booking a ticket. And book sooner - there won't be 'deals' on tickets at this time of the year because this is when most people are travelling.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
never summer, I think you were unlucky. I, and nearly all the people who fly out to stay in my apartment, have been using easyjet very frequently for 10 years now, with few complaints. There is a thread on snowheads where someone describes being bumped, with his family off a pre-booked BA flight and will never fly with them again - you can have bad experiences with any airline. easyJet flights in and out of Geneva are generally very reliable (I dropped someone off for a flight there just yesterday).

But I agree you need to shop around - the BA flights to London on 5 Jan are about the same cost as easyJet and, as you say, include a suitcase, so would be a good bet. But the OP needs to book flights asap, if they decide to fly independently and book transfer and accommodation separately.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Kkxtrouble, If the options to the Alps are coming in as too expensive it may be worth taking a chance on snow condtions and going back to Andorra again or maybe trying a resort in the French or Spanish Pyrenees.
It is possible to catch a train from Paris to very near to Andorra, more details here http://www.seat61.com/Andorra.htm It also shouldn't be too difficult to catch a train from Paris to close to the main French resorts in the Pyrenees.
A flight back from Toulouse to London Gatwick on the 5th January is currently £32 with easyjet. There are a number of airports close to the Pyrenees with flights back to London. Try Perpignan, Barcelona, Girona and Carcasonne.

I'm sure somebody on snowheads will be able to give you an idea of the historical snow conditons in Andorra / Pyrenees if you open a new thread.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Kkxtrouble, from Paris I think I'd rent a car and drive it (around 6 hours to Haute Savoie). Car gives you more flexibility and probably way cheaper. Might need to buy a set of cheap chains. Just a thought.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Rail tickets don't change price but are often more expensive at popular times and dates. However there are a few roughly half priced tickets, which sell out almost at once on popular dates/times, as I said before. One particular Friday overnight train to the Alps during French holidays they were sold out when I went online an hour later.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Some decent resorts within an hour of geneva. Chatel and chamonix are pretty good, if you go to holidaylettings.com, you can find some really good value apartments. I have paid 300-400Euro for 1 week in a three bedroom apartment.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

I have paid 300-400Euro for 1 week in a three bedroom apartment.

not likely in New Year week!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Kkxtrouble, re lift passes: they run from approx. €200-€280 for a weeks pass. The larger and big-name resorts will be at the higher end of the scale.

Sounds like you're planning a great trip Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kkxtrouble, Without cheCking prices I would take the TGV from Paris to Geneva/Bourg st Maurice. You are going to want to be somewhere with at least some high(er) skiing.

Nowhere with a decent snow record will be cheap that week. It's the most expensive week of the year I am afraid...

And I'd probably fly back to London.

Train timetables and fares will be online sooner than 3 months in advance I would expect given that the current timetable extends to Dec 8 already...you may be able to register for an alert when they come out (you don't need a ski specific train).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

they run from approx. €200-€280 for a weeks pass. The larger and big-name resorts will be at the higher end of the scale

and smaller resorts well below the bottom end - there are a good number of smaller resorts with passes for less than 200 for 6 days.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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under a new name wrote:
Kkxtrouble, Without cheCking prices I would take the TGV from Paris to Geneva/Bourg st Maurice. You are going to want to be somewhere with at least some high(er) skiing.

Nowhere with a decent snow record will be cheap that week. It's the most expensive week of the year I am afraid...

And I'd probably fly back to London.

Train timetables and fares will be online sooner than 3 months in advance I would expect given that the current timetable extends to Dec 8 already...you may be able to register for an alert when they come out (you don't need a ski specific train).

TGV and flying back you only get 6 days skiing instead of 8. For that reason I think the overnight train is much better value (overnight is not a TGV, it would get there much too soon).
I just looked at Raileurope and Dec 8th wasn't available yet for that route. Where were you looking?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
snowball, Good point!

I just looked at TGV on the Deutschebahn site, db.de. I find it's one of the better Euro rail timetable and pricing sites.

I think the return problem is always going to involve flying as OP has onward flight from LON.
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