 Poster: A snowHead
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I came across these pills at the weekend whilst cycling in a sportive with a buddy from the US. Lots of people in his club use them - and swear by them for raising their lactate threshold.
They are marketed primarily for cycling/running/tri - but he has heard they are relatively widely used by skiers.
So as the topic title says - anybody used them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you want to give it a whirl, why not.
But the active ingredients they list are basically heartburn medication...
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There seem to be a number of studies out there suggesting that lactate supplements aren't noticably useful. A quick search may turn up a few helpful papers.
It also seems that you can get the principle ingredient (calcium lactate) elsewhere... it is advertised as a dietary calcium supplement, and is probably a wee bit cheaper than sport-oriented stuff.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for the replies so far - I have googled it myself and read the reports - but the anecdotal evidence is strongly in favour - although as we all know that can be 'creatively produced'.
I intend giving it a whirl myself - and will report back but you appear to have to order the stuff from the US so it may take a wee bit of time.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
Thanks for the replies so far - I have googled it myself and read the reports - but the anecdotal evidence is strongly in favour - although as we all know that can be 'creatively produced'.
I intend giving it a whirl myself - and will report back but you appear to have to order the stuff from the US so it may take a wee bit of time. |
Can I suggest doing a blind trial yourself to demonstrate to yourself if it actually does something?
Get ahold of some placebos (some homeopathic tablets of vitamin C or something)
Do something to ensure that they can't be told apart from the lactate pills.
Put them in similar unmarked containers and then decide which ones you'll take first and which ones second. Then do a course for a fe weeks on each and see which give the best effects.
I'm pretty confident it'll make you feel better in the same way that an oil and filter change makes the car feel quicker.
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dont skip leg day
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| Quote: |
anecdotal evidence is strongly in favour
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"Anecdotal evidence" is a contradiction in terms.
What it isn't is evidence.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Acacia wrote: |
| Quote: |
anecdotal evidence is strongly in favour
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"Anecdotal evidence" is a contradiction in terms.
What it isn't is evidence. |
Not necessarily and not necessarily.
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It is evidence, it's just incredibly unreliable evidence.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| bobmcstuff wrote: |
| It is evidence, it's just incredibly unreliable evidence. |
- or, as I've seen it put, "The plural of anecdote is not data"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Interesting to note that the dosage for the trial is 5 pills, and for the identical bulk bought pill its 3. Suspect an injection of same would provoke an even better result...
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cran
cran
Guest
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Bicarbonate of Soda is good as a lactate buffer...
Just don't go too far away from a toilet... 
Instead of looking for a pill, why not build up your legs and endurance instead... maybe cycling or an indoor rower or some squats or a combination of all three...
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You know it makes sense.
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If only there was a pill for this hey! We wouldn't have to do any exercise or learn to ski in balance! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| cran wrote: |
Bicarbonate of Soda is good as a lactate buffer...
Just don't go too far away from a toilet...
Instead of looking for a pill, why not build up your legs and endurance instead... maybe cycling or an indoor rower or some squats or a combination of all three... |
Maybe Mark Cavendish should try that - given he's so crap on hills?
As someone who has spent years trying to raise my VO2 max and lactate threshold I know all about the techniques. I only cycle 200 hilly miles a week.
I just asked a simple question - has anyone tried them - you clearly haven't but - hey thanks for your constructive input.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Cycling 200 miles of hills a week! You should not need a little pill! If you are happy about buying drugs over t'internet then fine, give it a go
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Fifespud wrote: |
Maybe Mark Cavendish should try that - given he's so crap on hills?
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Cav is good at hills, just not as good as some. He would destroy any of us mortals on a hill!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| Cycling 200 miles of hills a week! You should not need a little pill! If you are happy about buying drugs over t'internet then fine, give it a go |
In fairness Roy I'm heading to the Pyrenees next month to do the coast to coast with a fairly hard core crew. It's 720 kms and 20k of vert in 5 days. If I get dropped I won't see them again until tea time.
I've a strong incentive to get on my bike!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Rob D wrote: |
| Fifespud wrote: |
Maybe Mark Cavendish should try that - given he's so crap on hills?
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Cav is good at hills, just not as good as some. He would destroy any of us mortals on a hill! |
I was being ironic, for the avoidance of doubt.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I take it you were looking for someone to say that they are great and that you should get them.
If you want to get better endurance, work harder on endurance, be it on the bike, skis, gym or whatever. There are really no easy shortcuts and many possible 'cheats' may not be exactly beneficial to you in the long run.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Philbo wrote: |
I take it you were looking for someone to say that they are great and that you should get them.
If you want to get better endurance, work harder on endurance, be it on the bike, skis, gym or whatever. There are really no easy shortcuts and many possible 'cheats' may not be exactly beneficial to you in the long run. |
I find there a strange irony to these sorts of discussions.
| Quote: |
| Tell a man that there are 300 billion stars in the universe, and he'll believe you.... Tell him that a bench has wet paint upon it and he'll have to touch it to be sure. |
Raimond Verwei (also attibuted to Einstein)
And yet when scientific proof is provided (as in my first reply) as to whether something works or not, it's still ignored in favour of anecdotal evidence... The irony is, in this case, the 'wet paint' is believed and the scientist is challenged.
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Does not matter if they genuinely work does it? if you belive they work then they will work......the placebo effect will almost certianally ensure that.
Do they work any better than rat droppings in a double blind clinical trial is another matter, The paper feef, posted says that they dont work any better than placebo but you are not talking about improvement above placebo you are talking about taking them vs nothing.
If you genuinely belive that they will work then, like homeopathy, faith healing, crystal therapy, cometic face creams...etc...etc then you will be happy with the outcome. Research has also shown that you will find that the effect is bigger and better the more you pay for them.
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Try magnesium tablets, we're not super fit specimens but if we are skiing hard for a couple of weeks they seem to help.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last pills I bought off the internet didn't work either
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
Does not matter if they genuinely work does it? if you belive they work then they will work......the placebo effect will almost certianally ensure that.
Do they work any better than rat droppings in a double blind clinical trial is another matter, The paper feef, posted says that they dont work any better than placebo but you are not talking about improvement above placebo you are talking about taking them vs nothing.
If you genuinely belive that they will work then, like homeopathy, faith healing, crystal therapy, cometic face creams...etc...etc then you will be happy with the outcome. Research has also shown that you will find that the effect is bigger and better the more you pay for them. |
This ^^^
When you are attempting to push your body way beyond its normal stop sign - you have to believe its possible - otherwise you'll never do it.
I've experienced some strange effects. Jelly Babies are a phenomenon for example - they deliver a boost incomparable to the calorific value of the short chain carbohydrate they contain.
You see people supping litre bottles of solpadine, popping bruffen like it was going out of fashion, the doctors all taking industrial quantities of diclophenic.
So nobody has actually tried SportsLegs then?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| barry wrote: |
dont skip leg day
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Story behind that photo - the guy in question is an army vet who was shot in the middle east and only recently regained full use of his legs. This was his first day back in the gym (doing legwork anyway).
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| You see people supping litre bottles of solpadine, popping bruffen like it was going out of fashion, the doctors all taking industrial quantities of diclophenic. |
Not at any of the ski races I go to.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
You see people supping litre bottles of solpadine, popping bruffen like it was going out of fashion, the doctors all taking industrial quantities of diclophenic.
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I obviously go to the wrong parties 
| Fifespud wrote: |
So nobody has actually tried SportsLegs then?
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Not personally, but 15 men took it in the paper I linked to, under scientific controls, and saw no benefits.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| feef wrote: |
| Fifespud wrote: |
You see people supping litre bottles of solpadine, popping bruffen like it was going out of fashion, the doctors all taking industrial quantities of diclophenic.
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I obviously go to the wrong parties
| Fifespud wrote: |
So nobody has actually tried SportsLegs then?
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Not personally, but 15 men took it in the paper I linked to, under scientific controls, and saw no benefits. |
You are obviously not 50 yet!
My advice would be start stocking up on the Voltarol now.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rjs wrote: |
| Fifespud wrote: |
| You see people supping litre bottles of solpadine, popping bruffen like it was going out of fashion, the doctors all taking industrial quantities of diclophenic. |
Not at any of the ski races I go to. |
That's not really surprising to be honest.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
| Fifespud wrote: |
You see people supping litre bottles of solpadine, popping bruffen like it was going out of fashion, the doctors all taking industrial quantities of diclophenic.
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I obviously go to the wrong parties
| Fifespud wrote: |
So nobody has actually tried SportsLegs then?
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Not personally, but 15 men took it in the paper I linked to, under scientific controls, and saw no benefits. |
You are obviously not 50 yet!
My advice would be start stocking up on the Voltarol now. |
Voltarol is an anti-inflammatory and would work on me now, at 38, as I would expect it to work when I'm 50.
Anti-lactate pills have been shown not to work.. age doesn't come into it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| coast to coast with a fairly hard core crew. It's 720 kms and 20k of vert in 5 days. |
You're averaging 4000m ascent every day for 5 days?
An average gradient of nearly 6%
Tell me more.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| TheGeneralist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| coast to coast with a fairly hard core crew. It's 720 kms and 20k of vert in 5 days. |
You're averaging 4000m ascent every day for 5 days?
An average gradient of nearly 6%
Tell me more. |
Its a slight (well maybe more than that) exaggeration.
That 20k came from the strapline of our Just Giving page which one of the lads created, to grab attention. I was just regurgitating it - thinking I wouldn't be challenged.
We were originally going to tackle the pro strength, but some - well me - whimped out - and that's where the legend began.
http://www.pyractif.com/cycling-packages/road-c2c-max-strength.html
The Pyrenean Raid Coast to Coast is something like 12000m ascent on paper - probably a bit more in reality -sorry sorry sorry.
http://www.pyractif.com/cycling-packages/raid-pyrenean-route.html
20k vert over 720k horizontal would be more like 3% anyway - no?
Tourmalet is c7.5% over 18k.
All I know is it's blooming tough.
Have you done it perchance?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 22-08-12 12:54; edited 1 time in total
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I think you mean 2k (2000) not 20k (20,000)
20k is like climbing Mont Blanc from sea level 4 times.
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| feef wrote: |
I think you mean 2k (2000) not 20k (20,000)
20k is like climbing Mont Blanc from sea level 4 times. |
Every day the total ascent on the 'Raid' is over 2k (2000).
The worst day on the Pro Strength is 3450m ascent.
So yes it is like climbing Mont Blanc 4 times.
Unless I'm getting this hideously wrong in which case I will apologise.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
I think you mean 2k (2000) not 20k (20,000)
20k is like climbing Mont Blanc from sea level 4 times. |
Every day the total ascent on the 'Raid' is over 2k (2000).
The worst day on the Pro Strength is 3450m ascent.
So yes it is like climbing Mont Blanc 4 times.
Unless I'm getting this hideously wrong in which case I will apologise. |
And if you've not got it wrong, the BIG respect... that sounds painful!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
20k vert over 720k horizontal would be more like 3% anyway - no? |
Not unless you could find some paved roads at an altitude 2.5 times higher than Everest. Assuming you can't then every now and again you're going to need to cycle down some hills in order to find some more to cycle up.. So I assume that in fact half of the time you'll be cycling down hills. Which means you've only got 360km horizontal to accrue that height gain (and 360 more to lose it). So the average gradient is around 6%*
| Fifespud wrote: |
| Tourmalet is c7.5% over 18k. |
Yup, which was why I was sceptical that you could find a long route anywhere sensible that gets even remotely close to that.
| Fifespud wrote: |
| Have you done it perchance? |
Nope, the only slightly difficult cycling I've done is the Fred Whitton. That's about 180km or so with 3950m of ascent over pretty much every significant pass in the lake district. Huge amounts of climbing up loads of passes with gradients up to 30% and yet the full route only averages about 4.4% average; which is why I was sceptical about your claim.
But it still sounds like a fat ride, so good luck with it.
* obviously the 'vector' gradient is zero since you effectively end up at the same altitude as you started, but the 'scalar' gradient is 6%. As in calculate it using the total height distance rather than height displacement.
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TheGeneralist,
Not that I'm a cyclist (I leave that to Mrs M), but I do love the Pyranees so I got interested. I've found a few references to the Pyrenean coast to coast "Raid"
The Classic at 710k with 11.5k "elevation gain"
The Pro Strength at 795k with 16k "elevation gain"
The Official Raid at 745k with 11.7k "elevation gain"
So it looks like Fifespud's figure of 20k vertical might possibly include the downs as well as the ups, unless there is a more gruelling version of the Pro Strength?
Either way, not something you would catch me attempting on a push bike 
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