Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Driving around Europe without a spare tyre. Is it legal ?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
With the new wheeze of not putting a spare wheel in cars (of course it’s to save the planet) I was just thinking about som-it and, with the vast combined knowledge of theSH’s massif I’m sure you’ll be able to help me here.

Simply question what are the rules and laws on driving with no spare tyre when you’re whizzing around Europe.

All I can find is “advice” from XYZ or ABC, etc. Anyone got any links to the “law” in different parts of the EU regarding having a spare tyre.

Cheers
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
7 Seat VW Tourans don't have a spare, just a can of tyre weld. I don't think it is mandatory, but if you do have a spare it must be roadworthy.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

I don't think it is mandatory, but if you do have a spare it must be roadworthy.


This is correct I would think. Since most cars these day dont come with spare wheels. Some cars dont have the space to store one, so they cant make it law thast you have one.

No links though sorry.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Some countries in Europe require a spare, sorry I forget which, I have seen it checked by the police. In the countries concerned VW Tourans come with a spare.
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
There are many site giving their advice on what's needed in which country
eg http://www.carcaremadeeasy.com/links.html
But I still can't find the "law"
eg. that site says you do need a spare in some places, but they don't say where they get their info from

eg. You can't use the blow-up type repair kit for a minbus with more than 8 seats (we have a few so I know a little about these)
see The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
Section 24 (1)(c) and 25 (2) and 25 (3)
in association with Section 25 (3) article 5
So you either need a spare or to wait for the repair man to bring you one

But what about cars ??????
Puzzled
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Wayne, we have a 7-seat touran with no spare wheel and the gunge&pump provision. It spends most of its life shuttling to and fro the Alps and I have discarded the gunge and pump approach (since the gunge ruins a good tyre) and simply carry a VW space saver wheel (from an Audi A3, bought on fleabay for 30gbp, and entirely compatible with the Touran) - reason? Doesn't matter what the law is....I am not going to be stuck in the Jura at 12 midnight, in subzero conditions, with two kids, and gunge which fails to work in the tyre (it happens). RAC would take hours to get there, and we'd be in big trouble with cold by then.

this site mentions 'spare wheel' in only a couple of countries' entries but you've looked at that one - I note that you want definitive law, and I suggest that the only way to do this is to contact a tourist office in the countries in which you are interested.
http://www.carcaremadeeasy.com/driving-in-europe-legal-requirements-compulsory-equipment.html

this one mentions spare wheel for Serbia.
http://www.europeanbreakdownrecovery.co.uk/requirements_by_country.aspx
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Wayne, I think its more worrying to see people doing 80mph on a get you home skinny little spare Shocked
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Idris wrote:
Some countries in Europe require a spare, sorry I forget which, I have seen it checked by the police. In the countries concerned VW Tourans come with a spare.


Not ones in the EU. Any car sold in the EU is legal in any other EU country.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've got a BMW with no spare and no ability to carry one so it can't be compulsory in all EU countries...
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
my car came equipped with a stupid space saver, which saved none, because the designated stowage (under the boot) was quite big enough for a proper spare, which I now have. So if I get a puncture I can be on my way again at 80mph all day, rather than 50 miles at 50 mph. Those space savers are a joke, though still a lot better than a can of gunge. I think it's bonkers having no spare. We once had to change a wheel in France, on a Sunday morning, then drive to England. I was worried enough driving with no spare (as it was apparently completely impossible to obtain one in France, or around Geneva, on a Sunday) but if we'd had no spare we'd not only have been stuck in France till Monday, but then had to pay somebody to take us to a garage and get a new tyre put on the rim. We were 98% convinced we wanted a Touran till discovering it had no spare tyre - I can still remember the conversation at the VW dealers. I'd not come across this new business of cars with no spare tyres (at times, in far off countries, I've driven with two spares). So if you get a tyre sufficiently badly damaged to not be able to use that gunk (and I've experienced that several times) you just sit there, maybe in the mountains in the middle of the night, till help arrives? Nuts.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
pam w, I quite agree, I'd much prefer having a standard spare wheel. IMV a space saver is a poor alternative, and a can of gunge is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned. Evil or Very Mad
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The old shape Audi TT cabriolet had a space saver, but the actual wheels on the car were to big to fit in the boot, so if you had a puncture and had a passenger you had to choose between them and your filthy wheel.
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Focus ST doesn't have a spare wheel, neither do BMW's, some Audi's or Merc's.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
If you are carrying a spare tyre and your car does not have one as standard then remember to carry a suitable jack and tyre iron as well.
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

so if you had a puncture and had a passenger you had to choose between them and your filthy wheel.

Laughing the world has gone mad. Cars which know when they need to switch the windscreen wipers on (a task for which I feel fully capable myself!) but which leave you stranded up a mountain in the middle of the night if you have a blowout.
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dirty Gibson wrote:
7 Seat VW Tourans don't have a spare, just a can of tyre weld. I don't think it is mandatory, but if you do have a spare it must be roadworthy.

Ok you have just got away with that wink
Your 7 seater is not a bus (as defined by law) basically it is a large car (as defined by law)

In case you’re interested the legal definition of a bus is given in The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section 3 (2)
A bus is “a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver.”

The reason you can use one of those sprays to temporally inflate and use a car tyre is found here.
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section 24 (3)
Save as provided in paragraph (4) a wheel of a vehicle may not be fitted with a temporary use spare tyre unless either—
(a)the vehicle is a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) first used before 1st April 1987; or
(b)the vehicle complies at the time of its first use with ECE Regulation 64.

If you have few hours/days to spare have a look at regulation 64 (as this is the reason the car manufactures now feel justified in not providing a spare wheel)
http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs61-80.html

Of course they “could” fit spare tyres if they wanted to ??? But why pay for a spare wheel if you don’t need to ? And of course it may save the whales or polar bears and the Amazon rain forest, etc, etc

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section (5)
Paragraphs (1), (2), and (4) do not prohibit the fitting of a temporary use spare tyre to a wheel of a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) unless it is driven at a speed exceeding 50 mph.
You’ll also see now why minibuses can’t have one of those temporary spare wheels or a can to blow up the tyre.



So the uneca regs. allow car makers to give you a can of spray or a temp spare wheel, but neither of these can be used in anything with more than 9 seats (inc driver)

Regulations 24 and 26 the use of temporary use spare tyres on passenger cars is permitted in certain circumstances;
Regulation 26 goods vehicles and buses are required to be fitted with tyres designed and maintained to support the vehicle's maximum axle weights at the vehicle's maximum permitted speed;



But I still can't anything for anywhere other than the UK Puzzled
But I think someone said above that if it's OK in the UK in should be OK anywhere in the EU

Strange point though on minibusses. There is (like cars) no legal requirement to carry a spare wheel but, unlike cars, you can't use a temp wheel or a spray can - this is why all minibusses, again unlike cars, have the option to purchase a spare wheel and the chasis are designed to carry one.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Each car has these things written in papers. If it's written your car is equipped with spare tire, it needs to have spare tire... and not any spare tire, but the one matching papers. If it's written it's equipped with whatever that system with foam and pump is called, then you don't need to have spare tire, but you can change that system for spare tire yourself.
And another thing... if your car is legal in your home country, then it doesn't matter what rules are in some other country. They can't expect you will rebuild your car, just to make few kilometers in some foreign country.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
primoz wrote:
Each car has these things written in papers.

Where would I find that specified? It's very hard sometimes especially with a 2nd-hand car finding out even if certain features came as factory fitted, dealer fitted, or DIY.

Quote:
And another thing... if your car is legal in your home country, then it doesn't matter what rules are in some other country. They can't expect you will rebuild your car, just to make few kilometers in some foreign country.

Winter tyres??
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Ok winter tires are exception... thanks god for that Smile
Otherwise I have no idea how car papers are done in UK, but here you need to have them (something called homologation) if you want to register your car, or even prolong registration of your car every year.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
IIRC you need a proper spare in Spain.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Laws probably vary on type and length of use within that country as well. The argument that something is road legal in X so must be in Y even in the EU doesn't hold past a short recreational visit. You see many an imported car in this country with a bolt on rear fog light as they are a legal requirement here but not elsewhere in the EU.

A lot of BMWs came (still come?) with run flat tyres.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

Those space savers are a joke,

Quote:

a space saver is a poor alternative

Given the sheer size of wheels on cars these days, compared to 30 years ago, carrying a fullsize spare is really not practical, especially in something like a mini. Our S-max has no spare, just a can of gunge that we have never needed in 100,000+ miles, In the case of a blowout that destroys the tyre I would far rather be doing 40mph at 1am than 0 mph, space savers are neither a joke or a poor alternative, I just wish our car carried one.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
German Mini's from Oxford don't have spares just a pump and gunge.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

space savers are neither a joke or a poor alternative, I just wish our car carried one.


My "space saver" was indeed a complete joke because it saved no space at all and was a poor alternative to a proper spare which is now stowed in exactly the same place, under the boot.

When I replace my car I shall be very reluctant not to have a proper spare, even if I have to sacrifice some space inside the car to stow one. To me it's a bit like going out in a boat without an anchor and I'd feel vulnerable. A space saver is certainly heaps better than a can of gunge but that's not much of a recommendation.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
For those people (like me) who much prefer a proper full size spare wheel, this website which lists what system (full size spare wheel, space saver, runflats or gunge repair kit) is fitted to each car is quite useful.
latest report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I would have thought that EU Type Approval Covered all this. If you have a car that is Type Approved it is OK in all EU countries (as far as I know).
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/type-approval-for-ca.asp
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
A lot of BMWs came (still come?) with run flat tyres.[/quote]

My Mini has run flats, I also bought winter wheels with RFs, very costly...
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
harrim51, how to RF tyres work, and what can you do with them? How far, how fast? I did look at that option but very, very, briefly because of the cost, and know very little about them. Where did Minis have their spare tyres in the olden days?
snow conditions
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Having runflat tyres on my BMW, my view is that they don't.

(Especially if the puncture happens at 7pm on a Sunday in Italy).
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pam w wrote:
Quote:

space savers are neither a joke or a poor alternative, I just wish our car carried one.


My "space saver" was indeed a complete joke because it saved no space at all and was a poor alternative to a proper spare which is now stowed in exactly the same place, under the boot.

When I replace my car I shall be very reluctant not to have a proper spare, even if I have to sacrifice some space inside the car to stow one. To me it's a bit like going out in a boat without an anchor and I'd feel vulnerable. A space saver is certainly heaps better than a can of gunge but that's not much of a recommendation.


In some cases, it's not space saver, but a cost saver. The manufacturer can just buy a million identical spares and stick them on all their cars irrespective of the individual wheel sizes.
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Legal or not I can't think of anything worse than not having a proper spare if you are out in snow.

How can a space saver be legal in such a case in those countries that require winter treads?

Although my vehicle had a space saver it fortunately resided in a full size wheel well so when I bought new rims for the winter treads I bought a set of five.

As for the tyre gunk and run flats, I would avoid like the plague. They might get you home but you will need a new tyre. A normally inflated tyre can be repaired, generally run flats and tyres that have had gunge in them can't.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
elj221c wrote:
Legal or not I can't think of anything worse than not having a spare if you are out in snow.

How can a space saver be legal in such a case in those countries that require winter treads?

Although my vehicle had a space saver it fortunately resided in a full size wheel well so when I bought new rims for the winter treads I bought a set of five.

As for the tyre gunk and run flats, I would avoid like the plague. They might get you home but you will need a new tyre. A normally inflated tyre can be repaired, generally run flats and tyres that have had gunge in them can't.


I can imagine that, in the event of a flat, use of the space saver would be permitted to get you to a garage (which IS it's purpose after all)

If you want to be really anal about it, then you could swap wheels round so the relevant chained/winter-tyred wheels are in the right place e.g. a flat front tyre on a FWD car, put the space saver on a rear, and put the correct size rear on the front.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
elj221c wrote:


How can a space saver be legal in such a case in those countries that require winter treads?



Actually, I meant to say safe rather than legal but both apply. I suppose a slight advantage of a space saver would be its smaller section but its compound, tread pattern and construction would likely mitigate against.

I wouldn't want a descent of a pass on ice or snow with either a flat run flat or space saver.
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
The title of this thread is "Driving around Europe without a spare tyre. Is it legal ?" It would seem that under EU regulations it probably is legal, of course whether it is sensible to do so is another matter altogether.... Toofy Grin
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

It would seem that under EU regulations it probably is legal, of course whether it is sensible to do so is another matter altogether..

Spot on. It's down to individual feelings about the risk of an inconveniently-timed puncture and the cost and hassle of waiting to be rescued, versus the knowledge that you can change a tyre in a few minutes and be on your way.

A space saver which "gets you to a garage" is not much help if the garage is closed - which was our experience in France (and Switzerland) on a Sunday. It was simply not possible to get the damaged tyre repaired/replaced. When I asked the border guard on one of the town border crossings into Geneva he looked at me as though I'd suggested dancing naked through the streets. "But it's Sunday", he said, aghast. Driving on with a damaged spare wheel felt wrong, but not as wrong as not having been able to change it at 7 am, when we found a tyre flat as a pancake, with a trip to the UK and a ferry to catch.
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Quote:

Where did Minis have their spare tyres in the olden days?

In a space at the side of the boot if I remember rightly but the wheels on the original minis were about the size of a polo mint!
Fair point if the space saver sits in a well big enough to take a full size wheel
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
tangowaggon,

Mine was under the boot floor, but I think they were only 10" wheels. Space savers hadn't been invented back then.
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy