Poster: A snowHead
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With the new wheeze of not putting a spare wheel in cars (of course it’s to save the planet) I was just thinking about som-it and, with the vast combined knowledge of theSH’s massif I’m sure you’ll be able to help me here.
Simply question what are the rules and laws on driving with no spare tyre when you’re whizzing around Europe.
All I can find is “advice” from XYZ or ABC, etc. Anyone got any links to the “law” in different parts of the EU regarding having a spare tyre.
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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7 Seat VW Tourans don't have a spare, just a can of tyre weld. I don't think it is mandatory, but if you do have a spare it must be roadworthy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't think it is mandatory, but if you do have a spare it must be roadworthy.
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This is correct I would think. Since most cars these day dont come with spare wheels. Some cars dont have the space to store one, so they cant make it law thast you have one.
No links though sorry.
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Some countries in Europe require a spare, sorry I forget which, I have seen it checked by the police. In the countries concerned VW Tourans come with a spare.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There are many site giving their advice on what's needed in which country
eg http://www.carcaremadeeasy.com/links.html
But I still can't find the "law"
eg. that site says you do need a spare in some places, but they don't say where they get their info from
eg. You can't use the blow-up type repair kit for a minbus with more than 8 seats (we have a few so I know a little about these)
see The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
Section 24 (1)(c) and 25 (2) and 25 (3)
in association with Section 25 (3) article 5
So you either need a spare or to wait for the repair man to bring you one
But what about cars ??????
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Wayne, we have a 7-seat touran with no spare wheel and the gunge&pump provision. It spends most of its life shuttling to and fro the Alps and I have discarded the gunge and pump approach (since the gunge ruins a good tyre) and simply carry a VW space saver wheel (from an Audi A3, bought on fleabay for 30gbp, and entirely compatible with the Touran) - reason? Doesn't matter what the law is....I am not going to be stuck in the Jura at 12 midnight, in subzero conditions, with two kids, and gunge which fails to work in the tyre (it happens). RAC would take hours to get there, and we'd be in big trouble with cold by then.
this site mentions 'spare wheel' in only a couple of countries' entries but you've looked at that one - I note that you want definitive law, and I suggest that the only way to do this is to contact a tourist office in the countries in which you are interested.
http://www.carcaremadeeasy.com/driving-in-europe-legal-requirements-compulsory-equipment.html
this one mentions spare wheel for Serbia.
http://www.europeanbreakdownrecovery.co.uk/requirements_by_country.aspx
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Wayne, I think its more worrying to see people doing 80mph on a get you home skinny little spare
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Idris wrote: |
Some countries in Europe require a spare, sorry I forget which, I have seen it checked by the police. In the countries concerned VW Tourans come with a spare. |
Not ones in the EU. Any car sold in the EU is legal in any other EU country.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've got a BMW with no spare and no ability to carry one so it can't be compulsory in all EU countries...
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my car came equipped with a stupid space saver, which saved none, because the designated stowage (under the boot) was quite big enough for a proper spare, which I now have. So if I get a puncture I can be on my way again at 80mph all day, rather than 50 miles at 50 mph. Those space savers are a joke, though still a lot better than a can of gunge. I think it's bonkers having no spare. We once had to change a wheel in France, on a Sunday morning, then drive to England. I was worried enough driving with no spare (as it was apparently completely impossible to obtain one in France, or around Geneva, on a Sunday) but if we'd had no spare we'd not only have been stuck in France till Monday, but then had to pay somebody to take us to a garage and get a new tyre put on the rim. We were 98% convinced we wanted a Touran till discovering it had no spare tyre - I can still remember the conversation at the VW dealers. I'd not come across this new business of cars with no spare tyres (at times, in far off countries, I've driven with two spares). So if you get a tyre sufficiently badly damaged to not be able to use that gunk (and I've experienced that several times) you just sit there, maybe in the mountains in the middle of the night, till help arrives? Nuts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, I quite agree, I'd much prefer having a standard spare wheel. IMV a space saver is a poor alternative, and a can of gunge is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The old shape Audi TT cabriolet had a space saver, but the actual wheels on the car were to big to fit in the boot, so if you had a puncture and had a passenger you had to choose between them and your filthy wheel.
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Focus ST doesn't have a spare wheel, neither do BMW's, some Audi's or Merc's.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you are carrying a spare tyre and your car does not have one as standard then remember to carry a suitable jack and tyre iron as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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so if you had a puncture and had a passenger you had to choose between them and your filthy wheel.
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the world has gone mad. Cars which know when they need to switch the windscreen wipers on (a task for which I feel fully capable myself!) but which leave you stranded up a mountain in the middle of the night if you have a blowout.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dirty Gibson wrote: |
7 Seat VW Tourans don't have a spare, just a can of tyre weld. I don't think it is mandatory, but if you do have a spare it must be roadworthy. |
Ok you have just got away with that
Your 7 seater is not a bus (as defined by law) basically it is a large car (as defined by law)
In case you’re interested the legal definition of a bus is given in The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section 3 (2)
A bus is “a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver.”
The reason you can use one of those sprays to temporally inflate and use a car tyre is found here.
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section 24 (3)
Save as provided in paragraph (4) a wheel of a vehicle may not be fitted with a temporary use spare tyre unless either—
(a)the vehicle is a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) first used before 1st April 1987; or
(b)the vehicle complies at the time of its first use with ECE Regulation 64.
If you have few hours/days to spare have a look at regulation 64 (as this is the reason the car manufactures now feel justified in not providing a spare wheel)
http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs61-80.html
Of course they “could” fit spare tyres if they wanted to ??? But why pay for a spare wheel if you don’t need to ? And of course it may save the whales or polar bears and the Amazon rain forest, etc, etc
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Section (5)
Paragraphs (1), (2), and (4) do not prohibit the fitting of a temporary use spare tyre to a wheel of a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) unless it is driven at a speed exceeding 50 mph.
You’ll also see now why minibuses can’t have one of those temporary spare wheels or a can to blow up the tyre.
So the uneca regs. allow car makers to give you a can of spray or a temp spare wheel, but neither of these can be used in anything with more than 9 seats (inc driver)
Regulations 24 and 26 the use of temporary use spare tyres on passenger cars is permitted in certain circumstances;
Regulation 26 goods vehicles and buses are required to be fitted with tyres designed and maintained to support the vehicle's maximum axle weights at the vehicle's maximum permitted speed;
But I still can't anything for anywhere other than the UK
But I think someone said above that if it's OK in the UK in should be OK anywhere in the EU
Strange point though on minibusses. There is (like cars) no legal requirement to carry a spare wheel but, unlike cars, you can't use a temp wheel or a spray can - this is why all minibusses, again unlike cars, have the option to purchase a spare wheel and the chasis are designed to carry one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Each car has these things written in papers. If it's written your car is equipped with spare tire, it needs to have spare tire... and not any spare tire, but the one matching papers. If it's written it's equipped with whatever that system with foam and pump is called, then you don't need to have spare tire, but you can change that system for spare tire yourself.
And another thing... if your car is legal in your home country, then it doesn't matter what rules are in some other country. They can't expect you will rebuild your car, just to make few kilometers in some foreign country.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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primoz wrote: |
Each car has these things written in papers. |
Where would I find that specified? It's very hard sometimes especially with a 2nd-hand car finding out even if certain features came as factory fitted, dealer fitted, or DIY.
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And another thing... if your car is legal in your home country, then it doesn't matter what rules are in some other country. They can't expect you will rebuild your car, just to make few kilometers in some foreign country. |
Winter tyres??
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ok winter tires are exception... thanks god for that
Otherwise I have no idea how car papers are done in UK, but here you need to have them (something called homologation) if you want to register your car, or even prolong registration of your car every year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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IIRC you need a proper spare in Spain.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Laws probably vary on type and length of use within that country as well. The argument that something is road legal in X so must be in Y even in the EU doesn't hold past a short recreational visit. You see many an imported car in this country with a bolt on rear fog light as they are a legal requirement here but not elsewhere in the EU.
A lot of BMWs came (still come?) with run flat tyres.
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Those space savers are a joke,
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a space saver is a poor alternative
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Given the sheer size of wheels on cars these days, compared to 30 years ago, carrying a fullsize spare is really not practical, especially in something like a mini. Our S-max has no spare, just a can of gunge that we have never needed in 100,000+ miles, In the case of a blowout that destroys the tyre I would far rather be doing 40mph at 1am than 0 mph, space savers are neither a joke or a poor alternative, I just wish our car carried one.
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German Mini's from Oxford don't have spares just a pump and gunge.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Quote: |
space savers are neither a joke or a poor alternative, I just wish our car carried one.
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My "space saver" was indeed a complete joke because it saved no space at all and was a poor alternative to a proper spare which is now stowed in exactly the same place, under the boot.
When I replace my car I shall be very reluctant not to have a proper spare, even if I have to sacrifice some space inside the car to stow one. To me it's a bit like going out in a boat without an anchor and I'd feel vulnerable. A space saver is certainly heaps better than a can of gunge but that's not much of a recommendation.
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For those people (like me) who much prefer a proper full size spare wheel, this website which lists what system (full size spare wheel, space saver, runflats or gunge repair kit) is fitted to each car is quite useful.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A lot of BMWs came (still come?) with run flat tyres.[/quote]
My Mini has run flats, I also bought winter wheels with RFs, very costly...
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harrim51, how to RF tyres work, and what can you do with them? How far, how fast? I did look at that option but very, very, briefly because of the cost, and know very little about them. Where did Minis have their spare tyres in the olden days?
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You know it makes sense.
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Having runflat tyres on my BMW, my view is that they don't.
(Especially if the puncture happens at 7pm on a Sunday in Italy).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w wrote: |
Quote: |
space savers are neither a joke or a poor alternative, I just wish our car carried one.
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My "space saver" was indeed a complete joke because it saved no space at all and was a poor alternative to a proper spare which is now stowed in exactly the same place, under the boot.
When I replace my car I shall be very reluctant not to have a proper spare, even if I have to sacrifice some space inside the car to stow one. To me it's a bit like going out in a boat without an anchor and I'd feel vulnerable. A space saver is certainly heaps better than a can of gunge but that's not much of a recommendation. |
In some cases, it's not space saver, but a cost saver. The manufacturer can just buy a million identical spares and stick them on all their cars irrespective of the individual wheel sizes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Legal or not I can't think of anything worse than not having a proper spare if you are out in snow.
How can a space saver be legal in such a case in those countries that require winter treads?
Although my vehicle had a space saver it fortunately resided in a full size wheel well so when I bought new rims for the winter treads I bought a set of five.
As for the tyre gunk and run flats, I would avoid like the plague. They might get you home but you will need a new tyre. A normally inflated tyre can be repaired, generally run flats and tyres that have had gunge in them can't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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elj221c wrote: |
Legal or not I can't think of anything worse than not having a spare if you are out in snow.
How can a space saver be legal in such a case in those countries that require winter treads?
Although my vehicle had a space saver it fortunately resided in a full size wheel well so when I bought new rims for the winter treads I bought a set of five.
As for the tyre gunk and run flats, I would avoid like the plague. They might get you home but you will need a new tyre. A normally inflated tyre can be repaired, generally run flats and tyres that have had gunge in them can't. |
I can imagine that, in the event of a flat, use of the space saver would be permitted to get you to a garage (which IS it's purpose after all)
If you want to be really anal about it, then you could swap wheels round so the relevant chained/winter-tyred wheels are in the right place e.g. a flat front tyre on a FWD car, put the space saver on a rear, and put the correct size rear on the front.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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elj221c wrote: |
How can a space saver be legal in such a case in those countries that require winter treads?
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Actually, I meant to say safe rather than legal but both apply. I suppose a slight advantage of a space saver would be its smaller section but its compound, tread pattern and construction would likely mitigate against.
I wouldn't want a descent of a pass on ice or snow with either a flat run flat or space saver.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The title of this thread is "Driving around Europe without a spare tyre. Is it legal ?" It would seem that under EU regulations it probably is legal, of course whether it is sensible to do so is another matter altogether....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It would seem that under EU regulations it probably is legal, of course whether it is sensible to do so is another matter altogether..
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Spot on. It's down to individual feelings about the risk of an inconveniently-timed puncture and the cost and hassle of waiting to be rescued, versus the knowledge that you can change a tyre in a few minutes and be on your way.
A space saver which "gets you to a garage" is not much help if the garage is closed - which was our experience in France (and Switzerland) on a Sunday. It was simply not possible to get the damaged tyre repaired/replaced. When I asked the border guard on one of the town border crossings into Geneva he looked at me as though I'd suggested dancing naked through the streets. "But it's Sunday", he said, aghast. Driving on with a damaged spare wheel felt wrong, but not as wrong as not having been able to change it at 7 am, when we found a tyre flat as a pancake, with a trip to the UK and a ferry to catch.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Where did Minis have their spare tyres in the olden days?
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In a space at the side of the boot if I remember rightly but the wheels on the original minis were about the size of a polo mint!
Fair point if the space saver sits in a well big enough to take a full size wheel
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tangowaggon,
Mine was under the boot floor, but I think they were only 10" wheels. Space savers hadn't been invented back then.
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