 Poster: A snowHead
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Monium, If you've got some prototypes ready by Sat pm and I make it up to Hemel I'll give them an on snow test if you like. We might even get some pro endorsements from ski instructors and a renowned UK ski tech. |
I think I can have the handle and pole sorted, but the baskets and strap may prove problematic with 24 hours notice. We can always give them a test as they stand, it isn't like I have a professional reputation to worry about - I think have an idea for these puppies. Adjustable length. Just use some secateurs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From the look of the website video it seems they are marketting a camera mount rather than a ski pole. 
Some great shots though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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TanSnowMan,
This is my first and last comment on your poles.
I liked them from the start, I like the look of them and I like the idea of them and I am thinking of buying myself a pair just to see what all the fuss is about BUT you have come across here as a pretty angry individual, people laugh and point at new things man, especially if they seem to be pretty expensive at first. You needed to 'pop in' to the Forum, declare your interest and SELL them to us, not argue each and every point and then start getting more and more aggitated it is silly and no way to sell your products and you are fueling the fire and driving this topic to the top of the menu with each and every comment made.
I will give your poles a go but you need to think about your approach to customers, they are not always right, but how do you think your company is coming across here? Angry and combatitive are the words that pop into my mind and I am one of the people who LIKE your product, imagine how you are coming across to people who are undecided?
Good luck with your product and I hope it sells well.
NB people picking up on spelling/grammar/punctuation are being silly and need to grow up, ignore it.
Cheers and good luck
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I like the poles, they are expensive for poles and perhaps slightly pretentious but what the heck skiing is one of the most fashion lead sports going. Panda Poles, best hipster poles.
Also this thread is currently delivering on the entertainment front. It's like a playground fight over whose Dad can beat up the others Dads. I'm really interesting in what Monium comes up with.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TanSnowMan, what would it cost to ship a pair to Iceland?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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davidhammy, I think you are too hard on him. He's got into the spirit of things as the thread has continued. I think considering we've had rather a lot of, erm, feedback, they have responded reasonably openly and now positively considering we have made a few fairly silly remarks about their product and pricing.
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Haven't read all the "discussion" but I do have a few comments; I like the poles, or rather the idea of them - but they do throw up a few questions;
1) why are they so expensive? Bamboo is one of the cheapest material on the planet - it might not grow on trees but it grows on grass
2) are they really hand-crafted by blokes who would rather be out skiing? or does someone else craft the rubber ends and the baskets and someone "handcrafts" them by sticking the grips and baskets to a pole? Unless you are crafting the baskets and grips then you've lost my trust. If you're not making them who is?
3) are the grips and baskets also made from green / renewable materials?
4) I don't understand why you are shipping them in from asia when bamboo will grow anywhere - if you want a green product why ship the material across the world?
5) explain to me why they are so expensive again?
Sorry if this comes across as skeptical, but it sounds like a great way to make a profit off the back of green issues, rather than actually making an environmentally sound product - if you see what I mean.
By the way, I'm honestly interested in the answers - and not too worried about Grammar 
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| meh wrote: |
| I'm really interesting in what Monium comes up with. |
Well, we currently have our bona fide Chinese consultant in situ to assist with design. Chairman Miaow may not have opposable thumbs, but he does have strong ideas when it comes to the strength of bamboo and has been known to explore the properties of various materials to prevent excess sinkage in the white stuff.
Oooh, the Monium poles can quite legitimately claim to have been *ahem* fertilised by a famous Chinese despot and his pacifist sidekick. Organic and everything they are.
The only problem with all this ski pole production is that my tomatoes are going to get very droopy 
Mrs M.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now, before you get too carried away and potentially waste your time, keep in mind that the poles have to pass our durability testing parameters https://vimeo.com/33331758. This video may be kind of a joke, but the test was absolutely real. You must use another ski pole, whether carbon fiber or aluminum to test your poles against. If your Monium Enviropoles look like they are a similar quality to Panda Poles and are able to smash through another pair of poles, we have a deal. However I am not going to pay $200 for photos of a pair of poles that not only look knackered, but can't withstand a solid blow. A quick video clip may be necessary to prove this. I know I stated that I would pay $200 just for the photos, but I will need some kind of evidence that they are indeed the quality and durability you tout.
The CE mark is in the works.
And my grammar is far better than most Americans. Anyhow, language is a constantly evolving concept. You don't still speak like Shakespeare do you? 
| Monium wrote: |
TanSnowMan, now you are getting it. Thanks for the more positive approach. I am investing a great deal of time in this project, and have cleared out the diary for the weekend to do it. You need to bear in mind that I am not someone who will launch a product that I don't believe in 100%, so I may use the whole 2 week allowance to get it just right. I may also lose a bit of money on the first pair, because machining things out of solid block takes time. But I appreciate the additional budget you have freed up by removing the cost of shipping to the PandaCave.
I am a bit disappointed that you guys haven't worked out a way of making them baskets out of bamboo though. I think I have an idea on that front that you are welcome to steal from me and patent for yourself - that is what big companies do to us little guys
Genuine question - if you are selling these in the UK through S&R (good idea) then does it have a CE mark? If not, how are you planning to do this? Not sure if you are all familiar with EU law, but basically without a CE mark you can't sell it in the UK - that includes selling to the UK from overseas, which is the same for all EU countries. S&R will not sell a product without CE mark, or they shouldn't do, or they can end up in quite a bit of trouble. They also may have issues if anyone was injured using a non-CE marked product - which lets face it is possible due to the nature of skiing. |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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cheers Meh - hate reading the FAQ's - but these are pretty honest - the bamboo is from asia, the strap hemp is from china and the rubber and plastic is not re-cycled. Wonder if Patagonia could help with the recycled plastics?
but it still doesn't answer the main question - why do they cost so much? although if patagonia get involved I guess the price would only go higher.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't mean to come across sounding angry and I am not an angry person. Maybe it is a difference in humor. I may have defended Panda Poles, but I was not angry when I made the comments. It seems as though the comment that sparked the fire was my first comment with Monium, which was a humorous jab (not unlike what I find in British humor). Thank you for the perspective, as I was unaware I was coming across as combative (well, maybe a little combative with Monium).
| davidhammy wrote: |
TanSnowMan,
This is my first and last comment on your poles.
I liked them from the start, I like the look of them and I like the idea of them and I am thinking of buying myself a pair just to see what all the fuss is about BUT you have come across here as a pretty angry individual, people laugh and point at new things man, especially if they seem to be pretty expensive at first. You needed to 'pop in' to the Forum, declare your interest and SELL them to us, not argue each and every point and then start getting more and more aggitated it is silly and no way to sell your products and you are fueling the fire and driving this topic to the top of the menu with each and every comment made.
I will give your poles a go but you need to think about your approach to customers, they are not always right, but how do you think your company is coming across here? Angry and combatitive are the words that pop into my mind and I am one of the people who LIKE your product, imagine how you are coming across to people who are undecided?
Good luck with your product and I hope it sells well.
NB people picking up on spelling/grammar/punctuation are being silly and need to grow up, ignore it.
Cheers and good luck |
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TanSnowMan, Are you a budget airline in disguise? You started off with a fair $200 contest and now have added so many extras on to your T&Cs I can't even be arsed reading them all.
& I don't think 'Merkin English can be classified as an evolution of the language - at best a simplified version e.g. dropped apostrophes and dlimination of non phonetic vowels.
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You know it makes sense.
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Good Questions...
As for the price, here's the breakdown (this is something we should have on our FAQ, so thanks for reminding me):
For a $100 pair of poles (keep in mind this is an MSRP, which can drop considerably depending on the distributor)...
$50 goes to the retail distributor (i.e. Snow + Rock). We get this money if it is a direct sale through our website, however we cannot price gouge as a retailer would never buy from us just to offer a product that is more expensive than what we offer online.
$20 goes to parts (baskets, grips, hardware, bamboo, straps)
$15 goes to the person manufacturing. Although this is 5 times the cost of manufacturing in Asia, it is one of our ideals to have a locally crafted product and supporting our employees is an important practice. FYI: The assembly of one pair of poles takes 1 to 1.5 hours. There is a lot of work that might not be so apparent when you look at a simple ski pole, but all bamboo poles are different, and this difference takes time to work around.
$15 goes to Panda Poles to cover marketing and office work.
We really don't make a whole lot of money on this project (yet), and our main goal is definitely not profits.
Finding a company that produces recycled plastic which can withstand the forces of pushing in sub freezing conditions is not easy. We currently have a recycled grip and basket manufacturer lined up, but in order to proceed with them we must buy the plastic injection molds which cost roughly $5000 a pop. A little out of our price range for now, but having all recycled plastic in our poles is one of our main objectives. Even better would be bamboo baskets (a very difficult project in itselt)
As for the bamboo...
There are only 3 species of bamboo strong enough to withstand our durability parameters. They are all semi tropical species. There are growers in the US, but they only distribute live plants and do not have the quantities to supply us with what we need. Someday we will be growing our own bamboo in the Southern US, but for now we are left with few options. Almost all of those options are in Asia (we are currently working on sourcing bamboo from Mexico).
Okay, I think I have spent enough time with this thread. I look forward to the results of the Monium Enviropoles and would be thrilled to see any other photos of products people devise. Thank you all for your questions and comments and I hope to get some Pandas in your paws sometime in the future.
| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
cheers Meh - hate reading the FAQ's - but these are pretty honest - the bamboo is from asia, the strap hemp is from china and the rubber and plastic is not re-cycled. Wonder if Patagonia could help with the recycled plastics?
but it still doesn't answer the main question - why do they cost so much? although if patagonia get involved I guess the price would only go higher. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for your interest! The cost to ship to Iceland via USPS is $40, however the maximum length is 105 cm. We can ship longer than that via FedEx, but then the cost is $200+ (ouch!).
| meh wrote: |
| TanSnowMan, what would it cost to ship a pair to Iceland? |
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Poster: A snowHead
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cheers TanSnowMan,
thanks for the breakdown - although the distributors might not thank you if you put it in your FAQs!
looking forward to seeing some pandas on the mountain! and by the way, Shakespeare spoke with a scouse accent - all that "wherefore art though Panda Poles" stuff was just for show
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sack the Juggler, Not really a big secret that hardware has about a 50% gross margin at retail. No VAT or customs duty in the costings for UK market either.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| TanSnowMan, Are you a budget airline in disguise? You started off with a fair $200 contest and now have added so many extras on to your T&Cs I can't even be arsed reading them all. |
Ah, but these are Ts & Cs I accept to win the prize, which will be claimed in the form of a pair of poles (because I am a reasonable chap) I will make a pole that can smash through an aluminium pole. Important note for the American reader - that is a-l-u-m-i-n-i-u-m. I have no idea where I will find an old aluminium pole, but I'm sure we can track something down while we are doing the live ski test.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DEAR GOD  I thought only I was capable of stirring this much ѕhit . . . 2p worth . . . nice and will suit my new wooden skis . . . but over priced by 30%
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TanSnowMan, dude thats insane, it normally costs $40 to ship skis to Iceland! I realise USPS has a parcel size limit but there has to be something wrong with that FedEx pricing unless the poles are getting their own seat in economy!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not for me I'm afraid, they do just look a little on the naff side for my taste. I wish you well though, as I would love to have found a way of working in the industry. I think a lot can be done with bamboo without the need for it to look like bamboo. Perhaps that is what for you is charming, but to me it does look a lot like the emperors new clothes (ie, whether its true or not, it LOOKS like someone just stuck a shuttle cock on the end of a stick). Could you use thicker bamboo, and machine it down to be smooth, and more like a ski pole?
Like I say, best of luck for the future.
Andy
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| Quote: |
Yes, they do a set that get longer, but only very very slowly..
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not always... some up to 10cm a day!
I used bamboo quite a lot when I was a kid... used all kinds of lengths and widths for all kind of swordplay... One thing I can clearly remember is the amount of cuts and scrapes caused by a splintering bamboo shaft. The idea of that happening in a fall or in use is a bit scary to me. Great idea to make ski poles out of wood (ok.. grass) though... if only they had thought of this a hundred and fifty years ago or so.... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Important note for the American reader - that is a-l-u-m-i-n-i-u-m.
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now then... not many people accept this... but Aluminum is actually the correct and original name for the metal... then it went all periodic table friendly and was changed to an 'inium' to suite the elemental tongue.
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flangesax, bauxocks
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What the hell did I start?! 
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You know it makes sense.
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flangesax, run away from carbon poles, they are downright scary when they break and at least one person has speared themselves through the leg breaking one!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Tom Doc wrote: |
| What the hell did I start?! |
Dunno, but it's the funniest thread in ages.
Thanks!
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Poster: A snowHead
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They do have a fresh look about them, will take a look at them when they appear at S+R. Don't suppose the range will expand to include the Leki Trigger S system?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ricfrench wrote: |
| Nice but pointless |
Actually I think you'll find the points are just beneath the baskets....... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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TanSnowMan, What a fantastic video, good luck with the poles.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Correction. Shipping via FedEx is $130 to Iceland.
| meh wrote: |
| TanSnowMan, dude thats insane, it normally costs $40 to ship skis to Iceland! I realise USPS has a parcel size limit but there has to be something wrong with that FedEx pricing unless the poles are getting their own seat in economy! |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Correction $170. I could have sworn I found it for $130 last week, but here is the quote from today on FedEx.
https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/standalone?method=goToResultSummaryPage&isPrevFlag=false
| TanSnowMan wrote: |
Correction. Shipping via FedEx is $130 to Iceland.
| meh wrote: |
| TanSnowMan, dude thats insane, it normally costs $40 to ship skis to Iceland! I realise USPS has a parcel size limit but there has to be something wrong with that FedEx pricing unless the poles are getting their own seat in economy! |
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FAQ
I was just trying to work out a similar reply. 
