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valloire in france or soll, austria

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Without trying to start a fight like in a previous post ( Laughing ), I have been looking at doll and found couple of nice places to stay and read good reviews. My only worry is that Austria has repuatation for leas guarenteed snow than France. I realise that this can never been guarenteed but because I am short listing back up resorts in case low snow when we come.to book, I was wandering if anyone had been to valloire. It's in crystal brochure and looks really nice. Typical French village but with good amount of runs. Mainly blue and red and half tree lined so sounds just what we are after. Anyone know if it is expensive once there. Accomodation is SC so would.be buying from supermarket and occasionly eating out. What r.drink prices like on and off mountain. Thanks for any advice
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Austria doesn't have a reputation for being less snow-sure. In fact, the Arlberg (particularly Stuben) generally get the most snow of ANYWHERE in Europe. It's just most people don't understand that there is more to snowfall distribution than altitude. How high are the Japanese ski resorts, for instance?

For instance, several of the Austrian glaciers have near 364 days of skiing a year. I believe most French glaciers close for large parts of the summer?

Can't comment of the French resort though.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
My only worry is that Austria has repuatation for leas guarenteed snow than France
with who?

BTW you keep typing Doll in your posts instead of Soll (actually Soell would be the correct form as the O had an Umlaut - Söll). wink

Valloire is a delighful resort with masses of blue cruising and easy-ish reds, but not too much is tree lined which was one of your specifications. If you are still thinking of France as a back-up, why not look at the Grand Massif area, particularly Samoens Sixt and Morillon. Les Carroz d'Arâches was and is the main centre but it has become a bit souless in my opinion compared to how it was when I first went there. The big advantage is the closeness to Geneva (about 45 minutes) so transfers cost peanuts and do not take forever on busy Saturdays. There is a snowHead called Marcellus who can give you the most up to date information and advice about that region.

Another great area offering you most of your specs is the Serre Chevalier area, especially if you stay in the Chantemerle part of the region (lovely thermal baths!) A snowHead called Hells Bells can help you best with this area.

Personally I prefer the resorts further south from Geneva and the Haute Savoie as they tend to be less mass market orientated - you were looking at Risoul at one point. I've also skied Pra Loup, Vars and Faux d'Allos all in the peak French Half Term times as well as Serre Chevalier and never had a problem with crowds.

Söll and the Ski Welt region does not have a problem with snow, nor does Tirol and Salzburgerland. These provinces have invested big time in the most modern infrastructure as they really do depend on the ski industry for a large part of their income as does Austria as a whole. There are areas that sometimes suffer from a snow drought, particularly to the south of the main Alpine axis for example Carinthia and East tirol did not get as much snow last season. This is because they lie in the "snow shadow" of the predominatnly northerly systems that bring the snow, but that is not to say that they did not have a good season. It is all relative in the end really!

Toofy Grin
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Thanks again Samerberg Sue, I knew I could rely on you to put mind at rest about doll, sorry soll (typing on phone so tiny keyboard!) Think we will end up there but want list if back ups in case hotels book up. Been looking at serre chaliere. Looks nice and cheap for France...according to brochures. Will check out samoens too. Read about that 1 too and sounded good. Got good number of resorts to start reading about so will find some hotels and look into TO prices vs DIY. Thanks again everyone. snowHead
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Jon Ford,

I was in Valloire in January 2012 and really liked it, here is my trip report http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1970877&highlight=valloire#1970877

as you can see from the trip report I thought Valloire was very good value, cheap but good restaurants, very cheap lift pass and very cheap lessons. I'm not sure we could have found a cheaper resort in France that has 150km of piste and nice town / village.

btw the resort is adding two new lifts this year so even faster lift system. We really liked the place but not wanting to go back to the same place each year we are seriously considering Serre Chevalier for 2013.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Never been to Soll, but can definitely reccommend Valloire - Was there in March this year: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=88285&highlight=

We didn't really drink out much, so not too sure on the price of drink. From what I remember I think the on-slope prices were probably the norm for French Alps.

Smile
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

I think the on-slope prices were probably the norm for French Alps

I suspect that's true, but then the "norm for the French alps" is a great deal less than you'll pay in that handful of big name resorts, such as the 3 Valleys, where you pay silly prices!

This is the first time I've read this thread and I had a good giggle at the OP's statements - first that he didn't want to start a fight and second, that Austria had a less good snow reputation than France!! Can't imagine any statement more likely to start a fight. Totally untrue, of course, as would be the converse. Some French resorts have a very strong snow record, others have a much less good record, and I have no doubt exactly the same is true of Austria.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've been to Valloire twice, in 2010 and 2011 and I would highly recommend it to anyone. We went to Montgenevre this year as one of my brothers wanted a change and it was nowhere near as good, we haven't forgiven him! There is plenty of varied skiing there, the town is picturesque with plenty of shops and restaurants and a few nice bars. It's not full of English, mainly the French go there, so that would be a positive for some and a negative for others I guess. It is linked to the purpose built Valmeinier with a big linked area, including a decent snowpark if you like that sort of thing.

We're going back there in 2013 I think, as I don't think we'll find anywhere better for the same value, as the lift prices are some of the cheapest there. We will also be taking our daughter who will be nearly one then so want somewhere familiar.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I loved Valloire/Valmeinier. For all the reasons people have mentioned above.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
thanks walker2686, TangoFiver, and Jacksd2, will start looking into Valloire a bit more. Still really up for Soll thiugh so will be whichever deal is best come booking.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
thanks walker2686, TangoFiver, and Jacksd2, will start looking into Valloire a bit more. Still really up for Soll thiugh so will be whichever deal is best come booking.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Jon Ford, WHEN are you looking to go? If late season then your average resort in France will have more snow than you average resort in Austria. But mid-season you can just about guarantee every run in Austria is open but not necessarily everything in France.

In Soll you'll find skiing through to mid April most years, but you'll be limited to the higher/north-facing slopes by then.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

If late season then your average resort in France will have more snow than you average resort in Austria

Is there any solid evidence for that statement? (or the other one?). In any case, there's no such thing as an "average" resort and you'd need to look at specifics - there is a much bigger variation between Austrian resorts, or between French resorts, than there is between French resorts and Austrian resorts. Almost any generalisation at a national level will be useless, or positively misleading, when it comes to choosing a specific resort.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
Quote:

If late season then your average resort in France will have more snow than you average resort in Austria

Is there any solid evidence for that statement? (or the other one?). In any case, there's no such thing as an "average" resort and you'd need to look at specifics - there is a much bigger variation between Austrian resorts, or between French resorts, than there is between French resorts and Austrian resorts. Almost any generalisation at a national level will be useless, or positively misleading, when it comes to choosing a specific resort.


In short: French resorts are high, but on relatively rocky slopes. Austrian resorts are low, but on soft grass.

French resorts, are much much higher than Austrian resorts.
In most cases bottom end in is at 1500-2000 metres; which is top station for many Austrian resorts.
In the Austrian alps the temperatures are 2-4 degrees colder due to land climate.
Still, this leaves about 300-400 metres of advantage for the french resorts.

On the other hand, most Austrian resorts have their slopes on soft gentle grassland.
Therefore they only need a snowpack of 10-20 cm.

If you ever saw a picture of Val Thorens, for example, in summer, you understand that they need 60-80 cms of snow to even think of opening up.

Of course this is a coarse simplification.

In addition to this, snow conditions will differ:
1) From year to year. Some years have dominant northwest flow over the eastern alps. Then there's more snow than normal in Austria, and snow drought in france (cold but dry).
2) Resorts in the southern french alps (Alpe d'Huez and further south) have more variation in snow between years. One "retour d'est" and they receive 1 metre of snow. Sometimes this happens 3-4 times per season. Some seasons not at all. Especially Montgenevre, Serre Chevalier, Vars, Risoul are affected.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Onnem, we've been round this loop endless times. You haven't mentioned that Austria is further east, which also has an impact. You might as well finish it off wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I mentioned land climate, which is caused by Austria being further east, i.e. further from the Atlantic.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

French resorts are high, but on relatively rocky slopes

rubbish. At a guess, I'd say the majority of the 300 French resort are on pasture, and not particularly high at all. Of course the great majority of British skiers go to a tiny handful of French resorts and then generalise from that very limited experience. Plenty of low French resorts, or low areas of bigger resorts, will often run out of snow by mid April and a lot will have officially closed by then. A neighbour of mine skied down a red run near our apartments, last October, when there was all of 8 cms of snow on the ground. I thought he was mad (especially as he had to start by climbing up there, as there were no lifts open) but then he's the kind of guy who goes out cycling over mountain passes for fun. You could see his tracks (green ones) for a couple of days afterwards.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Onnem wrote:
I mentioned land climate, which is caused by Austria being further east, i.e. further from the Atlantic.


so you did
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Jon Ford, Am looking into Valloire myself for next winter so interested in all the feedback.

I have to say that I skied in Soll for a long weekend and had possibly the worst ski experience ever (apart from Alpe d'Huez). A lot of runs built on a slide slope, some runs indicated on the plan turned out to be narrow traverses a couple of feet wide - and as for the piste map, wow, never seen a less comprehensible one. Entry to the ski area is badly positioned with the main road through separating the town from the ski lifts, which are a walk of about 500 metres - though yes, there is a bus.

I dont want to run it down completely: Snow conditions were bad on the year we went, which is no fault of the resort, but of course can't help negatively colour ones opinion. Also people were generally friendly, food in hotels was very good, and prices not too steep up the mountain. Après ski seemed lively with lots of big groups of lads knocking back the drinks till all hours - if that's the kind of thing you like you'll love it! (But note that my younger brother went with said group of lads and hated it!)

Agree with Samerberg Sue's opinion of the Grand Massif. I have stayed in Les Carroz, nice town, friendly slopes, and thought Morillon and Samoens also looked beautiful so definitely considering the Massif as another option for next year.
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