 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Kids have been going up chairlifts for as long as they have existed with very few serious accidents. While I've had to grab a few collars to locate 3rd party kids securely on the chair at take off I'd say its the not getting seated properly in the first place that's the real risk rather than sliding off. Still rather have magnestick than the uncomfortable underbar brushes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
We tried Magnestick in Megeve for our 2.5 yo.
It's rubbish. We didn't bother with it beyond the first time.
Problems:
1) Half the time, unless it aligns perfectly with the magnets on the chair, it doesn't work at all - lulling you into a false sense of security.
2) The lifties had a tendency to pull jr *hard* against the back of the chair to try and make sure he was affixed. This, on one occasion, meant that the binding release thingies slammed into the front of the seat (he's only got little legs!), his skis fell off, and he cried like I've never heard him cry before for the entire journey because he though he'd lost his precious skis.
3) You have to spend money on renting the bloody tabard! As a safety device for chairlifts, I thoroughly expect this to be a free service. It's like having a 10c slot in order to be allowed to put the bar down.
Fact of the matter is, nobody - not even kids - fall off sofas very often. Just keep a hold of them. Magnestick is just a silly expensive gimmick that doesn't work properly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
They have had magnestick on some of the lifts for a couple of years, I can see some benefit but teaching children proper lift use is more valuable in my opinion, plus if you happen to get stuck in a seat with the gear it isn't comfortable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
nobody - not even kids - fall off sofas very often. Just keep a hold of them. Magnestick is just a silly expensive gimmick
|
That thing. No doubt Megamum wil like it though. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Can you fit them to dining chairs?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I suspect it could be driven more by ski-school usage to attempt to prevent any litigation should something happen.. But yeah, it's better to teach them how to use a chairlift safely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I fell off a chairlift in Chamonix once, about 10 feet spreadeagled into a massive snowdrift right in front of the lift station. Lifties (and everyone else in the area) found it extremely funny.
True story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I have one of those faces which for some reason prompts Italian ski instructors to command me to accompany a rugrat on skis up a decrepit wooden 2-pack chairlift. So yes, let's glue the little darlings to the seats and save me the embarrassment of trying to rehearse my basic grasp of Italian with a 5-year-old... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I can't see the attraction myself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Over the past few seasons I had noticed that this system has been installed on quite a few lifts throughout the Three Valleys (including Courchvel) and I wondered how it worked.
More specifically, I wondered how the magnets released when it was time to get off.
I understood that the magnetism was probably provided by electromagnets, but how were these electromagnets powered throughout the lift journey? There is no way that electrical power can be connected to an electromagnet from the single lift cable.
After much thought, I finally worked it out and considered that it was actually quite a nifty concept.
Has anyone else worked out how the magnets are 'powered' and then released?
I too have 'fallen' off a chairlift.
When I went to sit down right on the end of a six man chair, the person who had been standing next to me had for some reason shuffled over and I ended up sitting on his lap!
As the chair pulled away, he then pushed me off the chair, in panic. Fortunately I had the good sense to duck as the chair passed over the top of me.
At this point the 'lifty' hit the emergency button. 'My chair' was now some 10 foot off the ground, so I had to side-step back to the following chair.
Knowing that many of the lift staff don't have much of a sense of humour, I expected to be told off for 'mucking about'.
"What happened?", the lifty asked.
"I was pushed off the chair", I replied
"No!", he exclaimed "Do you know who did it?"
"Yes, it was my friend"
"Ah!" he said with a big smile, "I too have 'friends' like that!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Mr Marmot,
Of course we need to teach kids how to sit properly on a chair but when they are really little they are quite slippy and floppy and not rigid and the chair is not designed for a child, its designed for an adult. Ive not used one so I cant comment on how good/bad they are - but I like the idea.
I have also opened the Dogtag ad. about 5 times while reading this thread. Totally pi$$ing me off. Managed to use this website for about 4 years without the adverts becoming intrusive - what's going on???
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Alastair Pink,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Mr Marmot, yep not difficult to do using magnetism, permanent magnet mounted to chair, as it comes into lift station an electromagnet of equal power but opposite polarity counters its effect allowing the person to get off.
Personally I never had a problem being asked by ski instructors if I'd keep an eye on kids on a lift, when I was young other adults did so for me I'm just repaying that debt, so why not
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
Personally I never had a problem being asked by ski instructors if I'd keep an eye on kids on a lift
|
I've never had a problem up to now, either, they're mostly very sweet. One little chap, obviously not super-impressed by my French, looked me straight in the eye last year and told me that I talk funny. Another asked how old I was (I'd asked her the same, so fair enough). When I told her, her eyes opened wide. "My granny's old too", she said "But she's dead".
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| musher wrote: |
| Can you fit them to dining chairs? |
You win the thread!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| D G Orf wrote: |
| Mr Marmot, yep not difficult to do using magnetism, permanent magnet mounted to chair, as it comes into lift station an electromagnet of equal power but opposite polarity counters its effect allowing the person to get off.t |
Don't think so. If you look at the chairs that are fitted with Magnestick, there's a big box behind the seat, with all wires coming out of it. So I think the part that's fitted to the chair is the electromagnet, and it's definitely being powered, with the big box containing a battery backup in case of a temporary power failure. At the stations, it gets switched off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Mr Piehole, I think you will discover that the box contains both Magnet and Electromagnet, the Electro magnet only being activated briefly as it arrives in the top station, there's no way of providing a constant feed to the chair via the support cable and the brief time it's in the stations would not allow sufficient charge to be supplied to a battery, besides which batteries loose their charge incredibly quickly in cold weather which would rather make such a system as you suggest somewhat useless on a cold mountainside exposed to the elements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Mr Piehole wrote: |
| D G Orf wrote: |
| Mr Marmot, yep not difficult to do using magnetism, permanent magnet mounted to chair, as it comes into lift station an electromagnet of equal power but opposite polarity counters its effect allowing the person to get off.t |
Don't think so. If you look at the chairs that are fitted with Magnestick, there's a big box behind the seat, with all wires coming out of it. So I think the part that's fitted to the chair is the electromagnet, and it's definitely being powered, with the big box containing a battery backup in case of a temporary power failure. At the stations, it gets switched off. |
Follow the link and you'll see that indeed the system uses an electromagnet in the back of the chair and there is a point in the lift station that charges it and thus allow the child to leave.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Regardless of how it works, it's a shitey useless gimmick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| scooby_simon wrote: |
| Mr Piehole wrote: |
| D G Orf wrote: |
| Mr Marmot, yep not difficult to do using magnetism, permanent magnet mounted to chair, as it comes into lift station an electromagnet of equal power but opposite polarity counters its effect allowing the person to get off.t |
Don't think so. If you look at the chairs that are fitted with Magnestick, there's a big box behind the seat, with all wires coming out of it. So I think the part that's fitted to the chair is the electromagnet, and it's definitely being powered, with the big box containing a battery backup in case of a temporary power failure. At the stations, it gets switched off. |
Follow the link and you'll see that indeed the system uses an electromagnet in the back of the chair and there is a point in the lift station that charges it and thus allow the child to leave. |
What link? internet link or wiring link on the chair?
D G Orf has it right, in my opinion. No battery could be re-charged in the little time the chair is in the station and no battery could retain enough charge to power the size electromagnet required for the duration of the lift journey (especially during the cold conditions).
I believe, the vest the children wear/chair have permanent magnets that attract with sufficient holding force, but when the chair enters the station and an electrical supply can be connected to the lift chair, this causes an electromagnet with a reverse polarity attraction to the permanent magnets to energise which causes the magnetic attraction of the permanent magnet to be nulified so that the child can leave the chair.
I think they are missing a trick, if they made the electromagnet stronger they could 'fire' the child straight off the chair onto the piste. They would love it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mr Marmot, more likely the childs vest simply has a thin steel plate in it, this would be far cheaper to accomplish and make it much easier to get the alignment between fixed and electromagnets correct
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Just another point. I met a bloke a few years ago who had to stop going to Westendorf when they introduced a the magnets as he had a pace maker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wakkitt, I was wondering about that sort of thing so you've just answered my unasked question
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
D G Orf, So was I. I wonder what other equipment might be adversely affected by it as well? Presumably if it could have an effect on pacemakers, there will have to be comprehensive signage in multiple languages. I had a look on the Magnestick website but it makes no mention of potential interference.
On the upside (possibly) the Magnestick vests are back protectors too - although I guess that means they will have to be fitted properly.
I'm in two minds about things like this - trying to prevent accidents by inventing new products, rather than by education seems the wrong way to go, but this is primarily aimed at an age group which is often too young to fully comprehend risk.
It was interesting to see that they appear to be selling in the USA as well - given that there are (I understand) still lifts without bars, definitely lifts without footrests and users who eschew bars out there, that will be an interesting change.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
So - what happens if the chairlift breaks down and children need to be extracted from 50 feet up in the air?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
agw, another very good question, I'm sure there's an answer but off the top of my head I can think of two ways, a portable battery pack for the rescuer to enable them to deactivate the magnets where they need to or a permanent magnet that is sufficiently powerful to do the same.
I'm trying to think how old I was when I went on my first chairlift, I think probably 4 or perhaps 5 and I'm still here so the danger is not huge, bearing in mind the chairs I went on as a child were only two seaters with gates that swung to either side and a spring loaded bolt on top.
I wonder if perhaps the increased security is in fact down to a lack of control of youngsters, as a child I did as my teachers told me and had respect for them, whereas now kids seem far happier to play up and mess around which I guess can only cause more accidents, I wonder if there are any old time teachers or ski teachers who could comment on that ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
It would be much more useful if the magnets were in the tabards. If you got a pesky child in your group you could just pick him up and stick him on the nearest pylon. He'd still be there when you came by on you next lap - lesson taught.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| D G Orf wrote: |
| agw, another very good question, I'm sure there's an answer but off the top of my head I can think of two ways, a portable battery pack for the rescuer to enable them to deactivate the magnets where they need to or a permanent magnet that is sufficiently powerful to do the same. |
They're not everso strong magnets, surely. It's not one of those car-lifter things from a scrapyard. I bet a good yank would do the trick.
Or, to be fair, scissoring through the flimsy orange material of the tabard and leaving it behind would probably do the trick. It's the kid you're rescuing, not the technological vest.
OR IS IT?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Back when I started skiing (late 70s) the chairlifts were old rickety wooden 1 or 2 person lifts. I don't ever remember feeling in danger of falling off. I sat down and held on, much the same as I did on a ferris wheel which was a similar set-up to me. I remember once one of my bindings came undone and my ski was left dangling below my foot attached by the leg leash. I did try to ski down the exit slope (they were quite a bit steeper in the days before detachable lifts) on one ski dragging the other behind me but it all went wrong and I ended up in a heap and had to be rescued by a liftie. The shame of it...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
yes, stroppy child stuck on pylon - with the goodies being fired off at the top, with a headstart on the next run. 
I can't help thinking that a chairlift presents very little danger to a child compared to stuff like riding round at 80 mph in a weak metal box surrounded by other metal boxes, eating too many crisps, biscuits and fizzy pop or spending much time with a smoker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I actually found them quite reassuring when my kids were 4 and 6 and both my husband and I hadn't skied much. They only had magnets on one seat per set but at least then you felt you only had to concentrate one one child clipping down (even if this was quite unlikely- do remember worrying about it!)
Few years on and they are not something we would bother with - ski school gave them to us for free in Andorra too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Yellow Pyranha, I think the US use at Alpine Meadows featured on the video is a clanky old fixed grip bunny hill chair - which I think is probably the ideal market for them. I'm not overjoyed at the prospect of everyone paying more for a lift pass so they can be installed across a whole area as a "benefit". Priceload kids' passes for the relevant age group maybe and see how the Mumsnet types feel about that 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Mr Piehole wrote: |
| D G Orf wrote: |
| agw, another very good question, I'm sure there's an answer but off the top of my head I can think of two ways, a portable battery pack for the rescuer to enable them to deactivate the magnets where they need to or a permanent magnet that is sufficiently powerful to do the same. |
They're not everso strong magnets, surely. It's not one of those car-lifter things from a scrapyard. I bet a good yank would do the trick.
Or, to be fair, scissoring through the flimsy orange material of the tabard and leaving it behind would probably do the trick. It's the kid you're rescuing, not the technological vest.
OR IS IT? |
Detaching the child from the tabard would be a way - but you'd have to secure the child first with a harness or strap and the tabard would seem to get in the way of that.
No doubt the designers have a solution.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Priceload kids' passes for the relevant age group maybe and see how the Mumsnet types feel about tha
|
Agreed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I wonder if it's use will be mandatory for kids and up to what age is yes? If it is then the vest should be provided free. If not mandatory I wonder whether local ski schools will insist on kids taking lessons having vests and if so will they provide them with the lesson as part of a coloured tabard that the kids normally have to wear.
Will the magnetism affect things like mobile phones and GPS units? The pacemaker question is already answered above.
Lizzard, suggests that I will be in favour. I think they could theorectically be useful for very tinies esp. when chucked onto a lift with strangers, but the point is made above and I think rightly so that sometimes it is impractical to sit a child comfortably with their back on the back of a seat - I completely agree with this - I think this make use, even with the 'tinies', impractical for that reason. Older kids say average height 5+ probably are beyond needing it.
Although they are a bit awkward if you move the bar and find that they are spun the wrong way for us grown-ups I am more in favour of those black Y shaped lumps of plastic that you can spin down from the safety bar to close up the gap above the childs thighs. Or as we found in Flachau chairs with covers on them (though I grant that you roast in the sunshine which somewhat limits when they are routinely used!).
I think any adult with a degree of awareness with an UM on a lift has probably kept a whether hand close to the neck collar or hood of their jacket! I know I have.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I imagine the technology being used is a bit like one of these... a simple magnetic circuit, and a small servo motor to turn it on and off. I imagine you can unclamp it just using an allen key, or similar. That way you don't need silly big electromagnets to release people, you don't need big power lines to each chair, you don't need any silly stuff to unclamp a person and you don't have to worry about discharging a nice big inductor every time someone gets off the lift and all the exciting electromagnetic hassles that implies. Oh, and it will be cheap and simple to construct, by way of a bonus.
I don't recall ever seeing anyone fall of a lift, but I did once see a boy next to me lose a ski on takeoff and decide that the best thing to do was to throw himself off the lift to recover it. I guess a muppet clamp might have helped there...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
