ski and board instructors, schools and enthusiasts needed!

A snowHead

Hi! Launching in Sep 2012 www.comeskiwith.me is a new online innovation that aims to change the way everyone finds and books snowsport instructors. We are looking for ski and snowboard instructors, schools and enthusiasts to get involved with the site testing and gain exclusive preview access to the site. This is a great opportunity to get involved with a unique product! Please feel free to drop me an email at hello@comeskiwith.me or sign up to show an interest in testing at www.comeskiwith.me or on facebook.com/comeskiwith.me

Hope to hear from everyone soon!

Alex

A snowHead

I think an introduction something like this would be more appropriate to us as the audience and you as the 'agent'

We believe that developing skills is integral to safety and fun on your winter holiday.

But too many times when you do sign up for lessons the instruction you receive is of a poor standard. And lessons are not cheap.

With that in mind, we are attempting to set up an online resource listing respected and recommended instructors so you can feel assured that when you book a lesson you will learn and have value for money.

We would like to hear from you if you're an instructor to see if the framework we're proposing would work for you.

We would like to hear from you if you're somone who wants lessons and demands the assurance of quality.

Please visit our site

etc etc

-----

Quite frankly my interpretation of what you've done is

we've recognised a problem
we have some cool software
we don't have any instructors signed up

I'm an instructor, and based on your post and a splash page requesting my email address but offering me nothing does not give me a compelling reason to get involved.

Please PM me to convince me otherwise as well as respond to this post.

This is not Facebook or Twitter. It's a moderated public forum where recreational skiers & snowboarders and professionals in the winter sports industry gather to DISCUSS things which are important to the community.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Quite. I'd want to know a lot more about it (e.g. what will be different about this site to the others? how will it help?) before volunteering my time and effort to test it.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.comskiwith.me

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for your feedback and my apologies if how this post was made was taken the wrong way or came across in the wrong way. I was careful not to go into too much detail about the business as I was conscious as you have noted that this is a site to discuss things, and I did not want it to sound like a sales pitch! It was a well intentioned post to network with like minded snowsport professionals and enthusiasts who would like to get involved with a new project.

We have as you said recognised a problem (in our view), although we see it as more about finding the right instructor for a clients needs, as an example my partner is a fantastic instructor with nervous skiers and particularly children, she does not however feel as comfortable doing high-end performance lessons.... it does not make her a bad instructor its just about what clients needs she is appropriate for fulfilling, which is what our site will aim to give to clients - as instructors on the site will be reviewed under different categories of lessons. Therefore, it should allow clients to search for an instructor with a great track record of reviews in the area (ie kids, off piste etc) they are looking for a lesson.

So far we have had a fantastic response from instructors, ski schools and ski clients and if it appears that we have no instructors this is not the case, the post was aimed at this site because it is snowsports enthusiasts that discuss topics on here and this is exactly the audience we would like feedback from just as you have given, regardless of whether it is good or bad Smile

I appreciate it is at present just a splash on the page, the intention of it was to build an audience that we could update as we go through the build, likewise we are using facebook to provide updates also. We didn;t want to launch a product with no instructors on it so we are building are audience, getting them involved with the site development, so when we launch we have a product that is tested by its users and not empty of instructors as this will be very frustrating for clients looking for an instructor!

I will of course send you a PM and would be great to get more feedback on the project.

Alex

You'll need to Register first of course.

Hi Kieran, apologies I was writing my post as you posted a response, I hope that gives you a bit more detail and again I offer my apologies for not providing further detail in the first place (lesson learnt!)... if you would like to know more please do ask as we welcome feedback as I said.

Kitenski - oops my type error in one of the links! www.comeskiwith.me Smile

Alex

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Hi comeskiwith.me,
A bit of feedback from someone who might consider using a service like this. As a punter I'd rather value a recommendation from a fellow skier far more than an advert from an instructor, so I'm not entirely comfortable with the focus being on instructors promoting their business, although I do appreciate you have to start somewhere. I'd be more likely to look at this thread TBCH. More likely still (now that I've been skiing for a few years) to rely on word of mouth. When I was starting out I would probably have depended on the tour operator to point me in the right direction. Good luck to you. If you suceed in getting good, up to date listings of both ski schools and independent instructors in a lot of resorts this could be a useful resource. When you have some instructor content up there I'm sure you'll find a few people more than happy to critique the site.

P.S. you can edit the link in your first post - click on the scissors icon to the right of the screen.

After all it is free

Hi Alex,

And welcome aboard.

Thanks for coming back to answer and address our (mine and others) questions and concerns.

Every month or so, someone pops up promoting, asking, and taking and offering nothing in return. And then promptly disappears.

If your aim is to build a directory of the best instructors and schools then I applaud that.

How you structure that in an independent, objective way will be very interesting to follow.

How you monetise this in the digital age will also be very interesting.

If you're unfamiliar with how this forum works, unlike Facebook and Twitter for example, if a post is interesting then many people will read and comment on it. Time and space is on your side.

So if you could tell us how you came up with idea and how you aim to make it work that would help with what help / advice you think you'd like from here.

Not asking for you to give away your 'secrets' but speaking for most instructors who already deal with an 'agent / middle man' in the form of a ski school, is an individual instructor expected to pay a fee for

1) being in your recommended directory?

2) any lessons generated?

Hi Mike,

Not a problem at all, as I said I welcome comments, questions and feedback good and bad as ultimately it will make the site better for the instructors and skiing community.

The idea was born out of an idea when I was teaching in Austria working for a ski school that deals largely in private lessons, and I wanted as I'm sure many instructors do - a method to promote myself within the ski school I work for, gain feedback from my clients and utilise positive feedback to secure future clients. This led to thinking about having my own website or 'online profile' that promoted my qualifications, teaching experience, and a method to keep engaged with my clients after the lesson.... and to cut a long story short(ish) I thought a portal that allowed instructors and schools to do that and clients to find an instructor could work well.

Absolutely our intention is to build a directory of the best instructors and schools, but also the best in different areas ie. kids, off piste, groups, private etc... as I mentioned before I firmly believe it is about finding a great instructor suitable for your needs, not just a great instructor.

Each instructor on the site will be able to invite past clients to post a review on their profile in which the instructor will be rated and comments made on a number of different criteria. This will have to be done by the client and therefore will be independent of the instructor / school.

In terms of monetising the site we did look at taking a commission on lessons booked however the complexity of this was pretty scary! Members will be required to pay a fee, this fee is to be able to utilise the full site functionality rather than paying to appear in the recommended directory as otherwise this would as you say not be objective. It is then upto the instructor to build their profile with client reviews. From the site clients looking for an instructor will be able to request a lesson with that instructor who will then receive a booking request with the clients details, or it can go straight to the ski school that is upto the instructor or the controls the school may place. When an instructor is linked to a school on the site the packages the school offers will also pull through to their page (they can pick and choose which ones) for instance group beginner lessons.... these can also be requested with the specific instructor. From the instructors perspective the site is about maximising the work they can get in the school they work for.

Little Ms Spock - I completely agree with you, and that is what comeskiwith.me aims to give you the client - a list of recommendations and reviews from past clients based on specific lesson types so you know the instructor is appropriate for your needs. Yes the instructor is paying to promote themselves, but only quality tuition and excellent client feedback will result in a profile with a top average score one which clients will want to book. They cannot pay to appear in the top of the listings.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Thanks for that.

How do you intend making it 'Trip Advisor' proof - individuals posting as customers?

Does a past customer have to sign up to 'join' comeskiwith.me to post a review?

What do you envisage the cost to the instructor to be? One time fee? Monthly? Annually?

Can the 'member' which I take to be the instructor add images and video?

How do you propose marketing comeskiwith.me ?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Hi Mike,

Unfortunately the trip advisor aspect is a difficult one and you make a very good point bringing it up. When a client is making a review they will be required to input their name and email address so we can authenticate them, although an instructor could in theory fake this the work up in doing this will be considerable and instructors that spend their time getting their clients to do it our much more likely to have a greater volume of reviews, an instructor who has 2 reviews with top marks I think clients will be sceptical of, in comparison to someone who has 100 reviews with a more realistic average score. To note in the search results these will be dictated by average score and number of listings, so getting one review of 10/10 will not get you straight to the top!

The client does not have to sign-up however as they have to input name, email etc to make a review they will be invited to add a password so they can become a member of the site, this will allow them to add instructors to their favorites list so they can follow them through-out the season... for instance checking out their instructors updates in the run up to a lesson, as the social networking feel of the profiles will allow instructors to post updates, snow reports, photos, videos of example lessons. We have designed the review process to be quick so the client does not think its a hassle, but enough checks that an instructors does not post lots themselves.

The cost is still being debated, members will be able to pay monthly or annually, by paying annually they will be given a discounted fee (i.e 12 months for the price of 3) although they will be able to cancel their subscription at anytime. To note although the site will go live to the world in Sep (member testing will happen in Aug) it will not become a paid product until 01 Jan. After 01 Jan if you sign up you get a 30 day trial as a full member, those obviously who sign up prior to 01 Jan will get a 30 day free period. The cost at the moment is being considered around an amount that should an instructor get a single private lesson from the site they will cover their fee. It needs to be affordable so we maximize member numbers.

We will be doing a considerable amount of consumer marketing in the summer throughtout indoor slopes and ski shows, then we will be touring the alps in the winter talking to guests, instructors and ski schools. However, the most effective tool is our members - if our members talk to their clients and encourage them to submit reviews, this will increase the awareness of their profile and chances of getting more bookings and in turn promote the site to ski enthusiasts who we hope will use the site in the future. We will be using google and online advertising but as I know from my background in online marketing this is an expensive route to go and a business like this i believe is about networking and getting out their talking about the business and its value to members (albeit a lot harder work!).

A ski school can also have a profile, which an instructor can request to be associated with and appear in their 'team' listing.

As I mentioned just here yes a paid member can upload photos, videos, snow reports, comment on reviews etc.

snow reports

interesting - you've clearly thought through this a lot. have you done any beta on what real world clients actually rate instructors as? The Instructor reviews on sHs for example almost always rank people at 5/5 as it is seen as a positive recommendation type of thing. I also question whether most customers have the breadth of experience and analytical ability to objectively rate instructors - I'd suspect it will be a lot of "they were really good/nice/encouraging and any failure to achieve objectives was down to my lack of ability etc". When I think about recent experiences I've had with instructors I've only had one that I'd consider poor but in the context of group lessons I couldn't say I've had equal "value" out of all the rest, but those were almost all due to group composition factors.

Hi Bob, many thanks for your comments. Each client I taught last season I spoke to about about the project and approached it slightly differently, asking them 'when you are booking a lesson what are the most important factors you would consider or ideally want to know about your instructor' and the common feedback was below and what we intend to ask the clients reviewing our instructors on the site, rating 1 to 5 on each. We would hope that given the simple questioning and a rated scale that clients could be objective, and recognise an excellent aspect for instance in comparison to an average or good one. Interestingly, within the school I worked a feedback form was sent to every client and they did manage to be objective and give constructive points (i was also very surprised the % that did respond to it), my only issue was that it was published to their own site in a summary form which I think clients may question the authenticity of it? I would welcome some feedback on the questions below and any additions / changes. We have tried to keep it quick and simple so it is not a lengthy process.

The other key point is that each review will be made under a specific category - such as kids, groups, advanced - so an instructor will build up their average score under the category that they specialise / tend to teach in, which will assist clients using the site to find a specific instructor category.

How professional was your instructor?
(On time? Well turned out? Great attitude? Felt safe?)

How much did you enjoy your lesson?
(Creativity, communication)

How enthusiastic was your instructor?
(Passion and love for the sport)

How much did you learn?
How did you rate the quality of tuition?
(Lesson structure, content, appropriate exercises to level of client)

Did you get out of the lesson what you wanted?
(Was the tuition based appropriate to type of lesson booked?)

You know it makes sense.

Thanks for the replies Alex.

Looks like you'd done a load of work already.

Comments / Questions

1. An easy to complete review is essential, and I'd have a comments section for anyone who would like to expand on their grading.

2. A customer posts a favourable review on instructor A's profile.

During a search of the site they come across the profile of another instructor they've used but who hasn't specifically asked them to review them.

Can the customer post a review on instructor B's profile?

Can the customer post a poor review on instructor B's profile if they weren't happy with the lesson they received?

3. I think the review should have the reviewer's first name and last initial, the date of the review, and more importantly the date of the lesson they had with the instructor.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Thanks Mike it has been a fair amount of work so far, but plenty more to come!

1. we will be having a free comments section, this is vital for them to make the reviews more personal and will also make it easier to wean out (or spot) fake reviews.

2. Yes they will be able to post a review instructor Bs profile. Yes they can post an unfavorable review - an instructor can flag the review as inappropriate if they deem it to be unfair or rude for instance. We will then moderate these between the instructor and the client. However an instructor cannot just remove it because they got a poor review - to maintain te sites authenticiy we need to have the good and bad.... we have however added in the functionality that the instructor can comment on the review, which the client can then respond to - giving an opportunity to resolve the poor review and hopefully come up with a resolution that keeps the client happy. Of course we would hope this was done prior to the review being submitted whilst the client was still in resort etc with the ability for it to be resolved face to face.

3. Apologies, meant to say we will collect the first name and surname but in the review it will only show their first name and then initial. And yep each review will show when it was made and when the lesson took place.

A snowHead

Great.

Can an instructor be reviewed and profiled in more than one category?

A snowHead

Absolutely. When you sign-up you select which categories you can teach from about 8 that is available. You then select your three top categories that you tend to teach (this has been done to assist with prioritising the search results in the early stages when we do not have many reviews, so the category you select as your category will mean you are more likely to be nearer the listings, but only until we start getting enough reviews to base it on that instead).

On your profile it shows the categories you teach with the average score and nos of reviews you have received in that category.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

comeskiwith.me, are you making this world wide, or just Europe? And how are you going to verify that the instructors are what they say they are - level of qualification, legal to work in the country in which they teach, and have permission to work at the resort they teach at?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Skinanny, it will be worldwide as an instrcutor can add a resort if theirs does not appear, however as the site will only be in English initially (we plan to do it in other languages later) our key markets are the english speaking ones - America, Canada, Europe and NZ/OZ. The instructor / ski school can select which currency to present their lessons in. With regard to validation of instructions we will be very clear on the site that the users will need to make all the relevant checks they normally would do when they go through to the school to make a booking, we are clear on the site that when a booking request is made to an instructor or school it is then the instructors / school responsibility to fulfill and make the booking, we do not take and process the booking itself, if that makes sense?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

comeskiwith.me, hmm I see a bit of a loop hole in your reasoning because of how ski schools operate in the US - there are almost no private ski schools, the resorts operate their own schools, and it is impossible to teach on the mountain without working for the ski school (undergrounding is really frowned upon and can be prosecuted in some areas, plus there are liability considerations to deal with). However, because of how the area where I work operates, I have the ability to book lessons for my private clients myself - they do not have to go through the ski school. It just seems to me that if the instructors on your site are not validated as belonging to a certain ski school it would be easy for an unscrupulous instructor to bypass the system and work underground, which does the whole profession no good because certain guests will do anything to get a lesson for less than the going rate, not understanding either the legalities and or how unprofessional it is of the instructor involved. It seems very similar to just advertising on Craigslist, with pretty much the same guarantee.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Hi Skinanny, within an instructors profile they will be able to validate themselves to a ski school, which the ski school will have to authorise the request when an instructor makes it. The last thing we intend the site to do is encourage underground teaching, as an instructor myself i find this very frustrating. It would be possible for us to set controls on the site that did not allow instructors to promote themselves without an association to a school in resorts where you can only teach if you are working for a school, it would be great to discuss this in more detail with you given your local expertise of the us market? I would also love the opportunity to show you the functionality of the site that I hope would demonstrate the value of our site in comparison to one such as Craig's list.

This is why we are keen to get instructors involved at an early stage so we can discuss issues that might be specific to each country.

I appreciate you taking the time to raise these points. Alex

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Interesting read.... there have been similar websites before.

http://www.snowgurus.com/

I shall keep an eye on the development with interest as Snowgurus never really went anywhere even through I got perhaps one enquiry from it over the years!

After all it is free

Hi Steve,

The concept of comskiwith.me is built around the independent review aspect and helping the client find an instructor for their specific needs so I do believe we have a different product to similar websites previously done, but time will tell Smile

please do sign-up at our homepage to be kept upto date on developments!

Thanks to everyone for the discussion on this, we do welcome further feedback and questions so please keep it coming!

Alex

Got my email invite to look around the beta site last night.

Will report back once I've had a play.

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ski and board instructors, schools and enthusiasts needed!

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