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I have an incling we might ski in the states this season and need some help...

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sarah, does the Breckenridge ski school still feature Ripperoo the skiing dog?. My kids loved going to his cabin for hot chocolate and were completely convinced he was real.

Touches like that turn a good holiday into a great one.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jonny Jones, Yes Ripperoo is still there and to be seen skiing around, he also has his own Ripperoo Forest kids fun park, though sadly it was closed due to poor snow when we were there, this year was a very bad snow season for Breck.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mike Pow wrote:
Aspen and Park City to name but two have cuisine to rival Italy and France and I'm not limiting it to just ski resort restaurants.


Exactly and you can get better Sushi or Thai in the average US destination resort than you can in probably the whole of Haute Savoie. It's important to not confuse US diner cuisine with what typical US customers (being relatively wealthy city dwellers) demand on holiday. It's kind of like saying all you eat in France is cones of frites and croque monsieurs based on what's available from convenience outlets. Curries aren't brilliant though so guess they tie with the Alps there.
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sarah, Jonny Jones, Ripperoo Fun park was the highlight of our daughters holiday, couldn't keep her away.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skinanny wrote:
If the food in the US is that bad, I wonder what I live on?

Tahoe has at least 12 different day resorts, so there is plenty of skiing.
Flights are Manchester - Las Vegas - Reno, and then about a 40 to 60 minute drive depending on where you want to be, although many of the casinos run ski buses up to the mountains daily.
Squaw is now combined with Alpine - it's the same pass and company. Plenty of blacks and extreme terrain, and a great ski school (thanks fatbob wink ).
Food is good - from sushi to burgers and pretty much anything in between. Californians like good food, usually lots of vegetarian choices, although I don't tend to eat on mountain as a rule - most people grab something quick at lunch and have a good meal at dinner. One of the best restaurants at Squaw is run by a Brit who can actually cook!

If you wanted to fly into San Francisco it is only about 4 hours by road to Tahoe - I know that sounds far by British standards but over here it isn't, most of our guests are from the Bay Area and they drive up every weekend. Tahoe resorts are basically deserted mid-week except for Presidents week, you'd be skiing straight on to the chair.

As for lift passes - get them before September if you think you might want a season pass - ie for the Vail Corp resorts or Squaw/Alpine.
Been looking for your routing from Manchester on Skyscanner but not bringing anything up, who does the route?
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leedsunited, Virgin and Southwest. Southwest does not usually show up on any generic search sites, you may have to look directly at their website. But your local travel agent should be able to help you out.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
At the risk of reigniting the food wars, I have to say that the beer is unequivocally better in the States than in Europe. Pretty much all resorts have a local microbrewery which can be relied on to produce exceptionally good beer in all styles ranging from golden ales to stout with both lager and British style ales being available. And you can drink it in pints, too (albeit the shrunken US version of a the pint), or order it by the pitcher.

Three boos for small continental glasses of overrated lager!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Jonny Jones wrote:
At the risk of reigniting the food wars, I have to say that the beer is unequivocally better in the States than in Europe. Pretty much all resorts have a local microbrewery which can be relied on to produce exceptionally good beer in all styles ranging from golden ales to stout with both lager and British style ales being available. And you can drink it in pints, too (albeit the shrunken US version of a the pint), or order it by the pitcher.

Three boos for small continental glasses of overrated lager!


Beer better in US??

Ask any American to comment on that and I think you'll be surprised what they say.

Yes you can get decent microbrewery beer but this is variable

Definitely you can get awful lager in Europe- and perhaps a lot of pubs in ski resorts making a killing selling bad heineken or carlsberg. You can generally bet good German or Belgian beer though. I think this comment is same as comparing nicer European restaurants to American diners
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Quote:
beer better in the us


That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Complete and utter tosh.
Unless perhaps... You don't tend to ski solely in France do you? Or switzerland?
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Quote:

Beer better in US??


If we're talking a standard lager, I'll take what Germany or Austria have to offer any day. That said, there's certainly more variety in US as far as beer. This has been a big shift over the last decade or so. It's no longer Bud, Bud Light or what have you (although it's still available everywhere). Like Jonny Jones said, try the local micro-brewed stuff - Lots of different styles (IPA's, Stouts, Lagers, Pilsners...) & usually they're fantastic. In Colorado drink Fat Tire Ale. One of the best!
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TheGeneralist wrote:
Quote:
beer better in the us


That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Complete and utter tosh.
Unless perhaps... You don't tend to ski solely in France do you? Or switzerland?

The USA and Europe are both big places. But in nearly 10 visits to North America (almost entirely in the mountain states, it must be said) and more trips to Europe than I can count, I have always found the same thing. Mass produced North American beer such as Bud is dreadful, but there's no need to ever drink it as every bar, liquor store and restaurant has a decent locally brewed alternative. There is always a wide choice of ales available, typically including IPA, bitter, brown ale, porter and stout. There is often also a choice of traditional lager or wheat beer. The quality of this stuff is uniformly high, and it's served in reassuringly large jugs or decent pint glasses.

I've never seen an ale for sale in Europe. Typical European bars have a very limited choice of quite decent beer - maybe a couple of standard lagers, a wheat beer and maybe a dark beer. Most bars in a town seem to serve the same beer, so you can forget any idea of ringing the changes.

Just my experience. What's yours? Or do you speak from blind prejudice?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My experience is 2 years of living in US and probably about 20 additional trips there, in 15 different states,( but never in a ski resort) and always very frustrated by how bad beer was except when we did manage to find somewhere with decent microbrewery beer, but they are not that common, I am sure it helps you know where you are going.. And every just about American I met who has been to Europe says the beer is way better there. Why do you think it needs to be ice-cold?

I am not an expert on Canadian beer but it appears widely acknowledged this is several notches above US beer and so I exclude Canada from comparison.

PS in fairness it undermines your credibility to say you can drink good beer out of a pitcher!!!
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It helps if you think of the US as 3 distinct regions - East Coast, West Coast, and that wasteland in the middle wink .

The East Coast has good food (don't know about the beer), the West Coast has good food AND beer AND wine (and easily found without searching very hard), the middle wasteland is variable - the areas that are further above sea level seem to do better for both food and beer. Louisiana is a whole 'nother story. Very Happy

Around here Canadian beer is not acknowledged as being better than US beer, at least not amongst those who don't drink beer from the big commercial breweries.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
patricksh, Most decent sized ski towns now seem to have a brewpub or a relatively local microbrewery plus any significant sized town or city in the west. There's even a brewpub in a casino in skinanny's Reno IIRC
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Maybe my experience is coloured (colored?) by having largely visited places that have an abundance of affluent tourists with plenty of dollars in their pocket to spend on decent beer. I'm quite prepared to accept that the North American beer situation is dire away from the holiday centres (centers?), but, in the context of a skiing discussion, it's only the holiday centres that matter.
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fatbob, you're right - it's The Brew Brothers and it's in the Eldorado. There's 4 microbreweries in Reno/Sparks, the other three are B.J.s, Silver Peak, and Great Basin.
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Anyway Jonny Jones, fatbob, skinanny, you were giving us all the practicalities re going about a US trip at a reasonable cost- honestly, the food and/ or drink will not sway it for me. I would like to do lots of powder skiing without needing a guide - with OH, kids (and possibly toddler- is childcare possible?) For reasonable price without having to hire car.

When I know where I am going, I do intend going to local microbrewery and telling them Jonny Jones sent me,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Just my experience. What's yours? Or do you speak from blind prejudice?


I think I was a tad harsh. I have two vastly differing sets of experiences with US food. Each time I've been there it has been biking, climbing, or kayaking with a very full itinerary. We needed to get lots of food, quickly whilst on the move to the next river etc. On my first trip to California I got to the end of the first week and felt unable to get enough food in me to keep me going. It was really unpleasant processed muck with no taste, and the beer was pretty much the same. Note that this was food on the run, not eating out in restaurants in ski resorts.
When I went to Utah years later it was the exact opposite. SLC and especially Moab had loads of places where you could eat really nice food and drink pretty good beer, µ-breweries as the man said. Not just restaurants but snack bars and takeaways had good stuff.
Went back to California again expecting time to have moved on and the food and drink to have got better. It hadn't, still the same junk and very little of any substance.

So, yep basing it only on experience of 3 months or so in US in only 3 states so not a particularly sound statistical sample. But I'd still take my chances with German beer than American any day of the week. Bring Switzerland and France into the equation and I'd probably have to concede that you may be right.
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patricksh wrote:
Anyway Jonny Jones, fatbob, skinanny, you were giving us all the practicalities re going about a US trip at a reasonable cost- honestly, the food and/ or drink will not sway it for me. I would like to do lots of powder skiing without needing a guide - with OH, kids (and possibly toddler- is childcare possible?) For reasonable price without having to hire car.

Option 1: A family room at The Lodge at Jackson Hole. Decent hotel that's breathtakingly cheap if you book it through one of a few UK based tour operators who have special deals there. It's not central, but you don't need a car as there's a free shuttle bus to the slopes (30 mins or so) or to the town (5 mins). Airport transfers are straightforward - it's less than a 30 minute drive so even a taxi isn't out of the question. Having said that, a car is more pleasant, and car hire is cheap in the States. Kids ski free in Jackson with a paying adult, and deeply discounted lift passes are available if you buy in the UK, so the overall price is very low. I can't vouch for childcare in Jackson - my lads were too old when we first went there - but the ski school for adults is excellent. I can still feel a frisson of fear when I remember this year's private lesson: "faster, longer" was the mantra we practised over some fearsome drops and through some terrifying chutes, and my teenage lads loved it (as did I when I pulled myself together). You'll probably have immense amounts of powder, as Jackson has a tremendous snow record and most of the resort is left ungroomed. Parts of the hill (eg Alta Chutes, Expert Chutes, Toilet Bowl) face North and are so steep that the snow never seems to compact, even if it's been some days since a snowfall; however, I've noticed during pre-trip snow checks that many of the double-blacks don't open until early February so I wouldn't advise an early trip, and the hill predominantly faces south-west, so a late trip might not work too well either. I can't vouch for childcare, but I'd be surprised if it isn't available - try calling the resort. The best guide to Jackson's skiing that I've ever found is Bob's Guide on Epicski.

Option 2: If you don't fancy a daily commute to the slopes, the cheapest slopeside accommodation that I've found over the pond is the Pine Inn in Panorama. The resort normally prices up its package deals in the autumn, and you can find more luxurious accommodation if the Pine is too basic for you. Younger kids ski free there, and that has previously worked out pretty well for us price-wise. Panorama is a hidden gem if you want powder skiing without a guide - the Taynton Bowl is vast and some areas remain untracked for days after a snowfall, even in holiday season. You won't do much groomed skiing in Pano, as it hardly has any, but the quality of the glades and steeps more than makes up for that; I've personally never found tree skiing of comparable quality anywhere else. The ski school was absolutely first class when we used it (it's since changed ownership but I think many of the instructors are the same), and our kids haven't had a dodgy lesson there in more than 40 days of instruction. There's a kids' play area hidden in the trees for younger children, and older kids are quickly dragged out onto the double blacks so it might not be the best place if your sprogs are a little timid. Mine loved it, and every year there's a loud clamour in the family demanding yet another trip to Panorama. A car is of little value in Panorama unless you plan day trips; airport transfers are available, but I personally always preferred to drive so I can't vouch for price or convenience. Again, I don't know if childcare is available, but the resort could let you know.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ok, a couple of photos to back up the recommendations.

First, Jackson. Pepi's run is a straightforward single black that follows a ridge just below the tree level. It gets quite narrow further on, but here you can see one of my lads letting rip in the middle section that's a little more open. Not really powder on this occasion, though: things were slightly chopped up but still immense fun.


Second, Panorama. B1st is one of the easier runs in the Taynton and probably wouldn't be a double black if it weren't so far from civilisation - a rescue would take a VERY long time if you fell and incapacitated yourself. As you can see, it was in great condition on this occasion.


For me, these pictures eloquently express why we keep crossing the pond to ski. Both runs are within the resort boundary, avalanche patrolled, marked on the trail map and swept at the end of the day. No guide needed - just enjoy!
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Jonny Jones, gorgeous
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TheGeneralist wrote:
I think I was a tad harsh.
...
So, yep basing it only on experience of 3 months or so in US in only 3 states so not a particularly sound statistical sample. But I'd still take my chances with German beer than American any day of the week. Bring Switzerland and France into the equation and I'd probably have to concede that you may be right.

That's more than "a tad" harsh.

You pick 2 states from out of 50 in the US and found 1 of them inadequate. You then compare it to 1 out of how many countries in the Alps? rolling eyes

(if you were doing rivers or climbing in California, you would have been in the foothills of the Sierra. Area not frequented by well heeled tourists such as skier are)
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Some really good useful stuff in this thread, especially about skiing in Americas. I must bookmark this for next season's plans. Park City sounds good and I must admit the ungroomed runs are tempting.
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I'm someone who skis frequently on both sides of Atlantic. Bottom line with food/beer is that most of the 'on mountain' stuff in the US is cafeteria style food & with some exceptions it's shite. At some of the higher end resorts (Vail, Aspen, etc) there are high quality food spots on the mountain (usually in the base are) but they're expensive as is skiing at these places in general. Most ski-area towns will have at least a few really good restauants, some excellent, others not so much.

Good beer can usually be had anywhere here, which again, is a change over the last decade. Gone are the days of poo-poo beer in the U.S. In the northeast try anything from the Vermont breweries - really good stuff! I've found that almost any local or local-ish brew nowadays is really good & usually is available in styles to suit any beer drinker's taste (lager, stout, etc..).

All that said I'd personally take an on-mountain meal in Austria with a Stiegl anyday. But it's rarer for me to get that opportunity, so it's kind of a luxury.
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farlep99 wrote:
x Bottom line with food/beer is that most of the 'on mountain' stuff in the US is cafeteria style food & with some exceptions it's shite. .


Worth seeking out the exceptions to the burger/fries or bowl of chilli type stuff though. Some of the deck BBQ and asian fusion stuff can be quite nice. Eating on mountain isn't generally a big deal in the US given lifts stop spinning as early as 3.30 in midwinter it tends to be grab and go rather than an essential leisure activity.
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Yup. On-mountain food is fuel: fast, effective calories with minimum downtime. Evening food is pleasure.
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Got a notion Alta-Snowbird would be perfect resort for me- powder, challenging, ski in/out, uncrowded. But can't seem to find anywhere less than $650 per night!! Not driving every day from SLC with kids (clearly that's the way to do it)

Is skiing in US preserve of filthy rich only?? I have already been frightened off Aspen, Snowmass, Vail and Whistler because of prices. Am afraid Jackson Hole won't work for OH. And not interested in flying total 12 hours for small less challenging resort when I could be in Val d'Isere for less
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skinanny wrote:
leedsunited, Virgin and Southwest. Southwest does not usually show up on any generic search sites, you may have to look directly at their website. But your local travel agent should be able to help you out.
Many thanks for the info.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Solitude and Brighton may be cheaper
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patricksh wrote:
And not interested in flying total 12 hours for small less challenging resort when I could be in Val d'Isere for less

Many smaller North American resorts can scarcely be described as 'less challenging'. Smaller hills tend to have a much higher proportion of local skiers, which means that the average punter skis at a pretty advanced level and demands plenty of double blacks.

Panorama - which I suggested above - is a case in point; unless my memory is seriously faulty, the advanced skiing is almost as extensive as at Jackson and is of a broadly equivalent standard. The two resorts have a very similar total skiable area, but three things are missing from Panaroama: groomers (who cares?), an extensive lift system (more of a bummer) and crowds (yay!). You'll find a very similar picture in other interior BC resorts.

If you want a big ski area and slopeside accommodation, look at Big Sky. A room for 4 in the Huntley Lodge is about £100 per night (that's the room, not per person) in early February, which is hardly a rip-off. And, to keep up the theme of American food, I have never had a better breakfast anywhere in the world in any grade of hotel than I enjoyed in the Huntley when I stayed there a few years back. Big Sky is larger than Vail but attracts only 2,000 punters on an average day. It's completely deserted, and the only way you'll ever find a queue is for the tram on a public holiday or a powder day. There's certainly no shortage of high quality skiing there - just look at Martin Bell's fabulous photo thread in the Resort section. If you can tackle the Big Couloir, you're certainly a much better skier than I am.

Big Sky also opens up the possibility of a day trip to Yellowstone. The kids will certainly thank you for it. Here's a photo to whet your appetite.

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Jonny Jones wrote:

If you want a big ski area and slopeside accommodation, look at Big Sky.

My standard answer: if you want a big area with slopeside accommodation, go to Europe.
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Jonny Jones wrote:
patricksh wrote:
And not interested in flying total 12 hours for small less challenging resort when I could be in Val d'Isere for less

Panorama - which I suggested above - is a case in point; unless my memory is seriously faulty, the advanced skiing is almost as extensive as at Jackson and is of a broadly equivalent standard. The two resorts have a very similar total skiable area, but three things are missing from Panaroama: groomers (who cares?), an extensive lift system (more of a bummer) and crowds (yay!). You'll find a very similar picture in other interior BC resorts.


No disrepect but Panorama is not in the same league as Jackson Hole.

And Jackson Hole has much a much better snow record. The locals say that Panorama is in the centre of the BC powder doughnut and has significantly less snow than places like Fernie, Red, Whitewater.

A better comparison would be Jackson Hole and Revelstoke, or on a good snow year Kicking Horse.
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Jonny Jones, thanks, I will look up Big Sky

Personally one thing important to me is to not ski the same trails again and again. I would have found Les Arcs too small if I didn't go to La Plagne for a couple of days (but I am too chicken to do Face Nord de Aiguille Rouge). So I do want a big area as well as everything else.

Groomers- I can't bring OH down dbl black diamonds- so unfortunately some groomers are necessary.

And back to food -- no arguments - when it comes to breakfast I nowhere competes with US (except one hotel I stayed in for one night in Japan many years ago that was in just a different league)
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Jonny Jones, just quick sconce at Big Sky on metrosnow- this could be the one !!

Any tips re practicalities here I am listening !
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patricksh wrote:


Personally one thing important to me is to not ski the same trails again and again. I would have found Les Arcs too small if I didn't go to La Plagne for a couple of days (but I am too chicken to do Face Nord de Aiguille Rouge). So I do want a big area as well as everything else.



Do not go to North America - if Les Arcs alone doesn't have enough skiing for you even Whistler will disappoint.
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Quote:
No disrepect but Panorama is not in the same league as Jackson Hole.

And Jackson Hole has much a much better snow record. The locals say that Panorama is in the centre of the BC powder doughnut and has significantly less snow than places like Fernie, Red, Whitewater.

I perhaps didn't express myself terribly well. Panorama has no Corbett's Couloir, but most of Jackson isn't like that either - it actually has very few double black runs and huge areas of the mountain (eg the Hobacks), whilst great fun, aren't even very steep. So, while Panorama misses the very gnarly stuff, the bulk of its advanced skiing is very similar. As for snow, Jackson has much more precipitation, but it faces south. When I've been there, the lower slopes have hardly ever been in good condition, which shrinks the enjoyably skiable area dramatically. And, in area terms, they're both a similar size. A typical British advanced recreational skier won't miss the real top end Jackson stuff, and would therefore ski very similar terrain in both resorts. I'd take either place for a holiday.
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Jonny Jones wrote:
Quote:
No disrepect but Panorama is not in the same league as Jackson Hole.

And Jackson Hole has much a much better snow record. The locals say that Panorama is in the centre of the BC powder doughnut and has significantly less snow than places like Fernie, Red, Whitewater.

I perhaps didn't express myself terribly well. Panorama has no Corbett's Couloir, but most of Jackson isn't like that either - it actually has very few double black runs and huge areas of the mountain (eg the Hobacks), whilst great fun, aren't even very steep. So, while Panorama misses the very gnarly stuff, the bulk of its advanced skiing is very similar. As for snow, Jackson has much more precipitation, but it faces south. When I've been there, the lower slopes have hardly ever been in good condition, which shrinks the enjoyably skiable area dramatically. And, in area terms, they're both a similar size. A typical British advanced recreational skier won't miss the real top end Jackson stuff, and would therefore ski very similar terrain in both resorts. I'd take either place for a holiday.


Really? Impression I got was everything in JH so gnarly non-experts have no business there. Certainly too steep for average gardener European black piste skiier. Or are you saying someone comfortable on black slopes in Europe could do most of JH? I should go there just to boast I did (most of) it
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fatbob wrote:
patricksh wrote:


Personally one thing important to me is to not ski the same trails again and again. I would have found Les Arcs too small if I didn't go to La Plagne for a couple of days (but I am too chicken to do Face Nord de Aiguille Rouge). So I do want a big area as well as everything else.



Do not go to North America - if Les Arcs alone doesn't have enough skiing for you even Whistler will disappoint.


Really? I can't convert acres to km, but I had impression Whistler would be far more extensive than Les Arcs? Is it not? What french resort is it comparable to size -wise?
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patricksh wrote:
Jonny Jones, just quick sconce at Big Sky on metrosnow- this could be the one !!

Any tips re practicalities here I am listening !

Getting there is the issue. You'll almost certainly need to change planes twice, and IIRC there are two hours of wilderness between Bozeman and Big Sky. Transfers are available, but we chose to drive. The resort used to offer discounts on tickets purchased in the UK as part of an accommodation package, and kids aged 12 and under used to ski free; I assume this is still true.

The base area is no great place of beauty and it's very quiet: a lot of the self catering accommodation is spread over a large area so people keep themselves to themselves in the evening. Our kids were young when we were there, so we largely ate in the hotel in the evening; my recollection is of excellent beer accompanied by typically unsubtle food served in gargantuan quantities. The Huntley has an outdoor swimming pool and a fantastic manned ski storage facility at the entrance to the slopes where a friendly assistant will look after your prized ski gear without any need to faff with locks and keys.

The ski area is divided between Big Sky and Moonlight Basin. There used to be a feud between the two resorts so we only skied Big Sky; they've since patched up their differences and you can now buy a joint lift ticket. My understanding is that Moonlight Basin has largely slow, fixed grip lifts, though, so you'll probably stick more to the Big Sky area. By North American standards the resort is big with a large choice of immaculately groomed runs or extensive off-piste. By European mega-resorts, it's still quite small but the lack of crowds more than compensates. If you know any friendly millionaires, you can also ski across to the Yellowstone Club - a linked private ski area that's only open to property owners who can stump up $3m or so for a property on the hill. It's apparently a favourite with ageing Republican politicians.

The ski school was great for our kids. They'd had a pretty brutal time in Tignes the previous year, and American ski school was a revelation - tiny classes, friendly instructors who loved kids, a great sense of fun and camaraderie, and everything bookable in flexible half day instalments (including lunch if needed, of course). The Huntley also offered a free kids club after ski school that our kids used once or twice; it was run by a Peruvian lad who was delighted to find some kids who understood how to play proper football with him. I don't know if the club still operates.

Provided you're staying slopeside, a car is basically useless once you've arrived: there's complete wilderness between Bozeman (2 hours north) and West Yellowstone (two hours south). If you want to visit Yellowstone, though, a car is far preferable - although organised excursions were available from the resort, it was much cheaper for us to hire a car than pay for transfers and an excursion. Yellowstone trips are only permitted through approved tour operators - you can either go in a snowmobile convoy (max one child per adult) or in a specially converted bus that runs on a mixture of skis and caterpillar treads. We took the bus, and it was a great day out - we saw huge numbers of bison, elk, moose, bighorn sheep, bald eagles and even got close and personal with a lone coyote. And, of course, we saw the geysers and other geothermal features.

Big Sky has very high precipitation, but it's a very rocky hill that needs a lot of powder to cover natural obstacles. I don't think I'd recommend a trip until early February.

Martin Bell - former British ski racer and fellow snowHead - is a Big Sky resident. You might want to PM him for any more specific or up to date advice and/or to book one of his training sessions.
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patricksh wrote:
Jonny Jones wrote:
Quote:
No disrepect but Panorama is not in the same league as Jackson Hole.

And Jackson Hole has much a much better snow record. The locals say that Panorama is in the centre of the BC powder doughnut and has significantly less snow than places like Fernie, Red, Whitewater.

I perhaps didn't express myself terribly well. Panorama has no Corbett's Couloir, but most of Jackson isn't like that either - it actually has very few double black runs and huge areas of the mountain (eg the Hobacks), whilst great fun, aren't even very steep. So, while Panorama misses the very gnarly stuff, the bulk of its advanced skiing is very similar. As for snow, Jackson has much more precipitation, but it faces south. When I've been there, the lower slopes have hardly ever been in good condition, which shrinks the enjoyably skiable area dramatically. And, in area terms, they're both a similar size. A typical British advanced recreational skier won't miss the real top end Jackson stuff, and would therefore ski very similar terrain in both resorts. I'd take either place for a holiday.


Really? Impression I got was everything in JH so gnarly non-experts have no business there. Certainly too steep for average gardener European black piste skiier. Or are you saying someone comfortable on black slopes in Europe could do most of JH? I should go there just to boast I did (most of) it

Jackson has a reasonable number of groomers that would be accessible to all European piste skiers. The blacks don't really compare with European blacks, though - some European black-run skiers would find them straightforward while others would be terrified.

My experience of European blacks is that they tend to be steep, often icy and nearly always groomed. In Jackson, runs get a single black rating either because: they're very steep and groomed (rare); moderately steep and ungroomed with enormous moguls (common); or covered with trees (very common). If you can't ski ungroomed runs with comfort, dislike moguls, or freak in the trees, you'll greatly limit your options. The trouble is that if you've mostly skied in Europe, you might not have encountered this terrain often enough to know how much you like it.

The double blacks - and there aren't many - are extremely steep (> 40 degrees) and usually have a very narrow pinch point somewhere on the steepest pitch, most commonly caused by a chute or awkward rock formation. You don't want to encounter something like this by accident, but, if your technique is strong, you should cope.

The really gnarly stuff is mostly unmarked and best left to the locals. Never, ever, ever make the mistake of following someone else's ski tracks in Jackson. They quite literally might drop straight off a cliff.

Look at Bob's Guide on Epicski to get a fairly objective assessment of the standard needed to get the most out of the place.
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