 Poster: A snowHead
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I have asked a similar question before
Has any instructor their personal / own public liability insurance to instruct independently on any mountain ?
ie private lessons not working for a ski school
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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... if you are qualified then BASI Membership (and I assume other associations) cover this. However as soon as you actually go somewhere and teach then you would be subject to that slopes / resorts rules and regs so you would need to check they allow independent working on the slope / resort and if they do then as long as your membership is up to date you should be OK. If you have BASI ISTD L4 then you automatically have cover to work independently anywhere.
.... that is my understanding of the situation! Of course you have to be working within the remit of your qualification so no taking people off piste if you are level 1 for example!
Also, for what it is worth, I have separate loss of earnings insurance too for ski instructing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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1969jma,
I'm pretty sure that most regulating authorities which qualify you to do this type of teaching also offer insurance within their profesisonal membership.
Which qualification do you hold?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have a Canadian qualification which only covers North America
I will be going to Europe
i) anyone suggest any companies?
ii) Which company do BASI use?
Steve Angus, which company for loss of earnings, thats a great shout?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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1969jma, You should be covered through your employer and their liability insurance.
However, one option would be to convert to one of the European systems for extra cover. BASI or the Irish System could be options, but people do teach in Europe on Canadian qualifications...
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| Quote: |
ie private lessons not working for a ski school
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The only way to legally teach private lessons is to either hold a recognised qualification at the suitable level or to work with the Canadian cert. for a local ski school.
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flangesax, Fair do's, I missed the Indi bit. However Canadian qualifications are recognised in parts of Europe and we don't know 1969jma's qualification.
The idea of having an independent option for Instructor professional liability insurance is actually quite an interesting one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As I mention above my Canadian qualification insurance doesn't cover Europe.
I have worked in 3 countries as part of ski school
I could still instruct these families as a friend and they would be happy with this irrespective of whether I had insurance. I personally would like the security of having some insurance
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AndAnotherThing.., they are unoffically recognised in Austria, it is purely up to whether the Ski School owner takes the risk to employ (and whether their insurance accepts the liability as Austria pretends not to recognise the cert).
1969jma, there is nothing wrong with teaching your mates and their familes to ski but if anything goes wrong and anyone suggests that anything was exchanged in way of thanks, this would be seen as payment and then you are up the creek.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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1969jma, as said above, if you are not suitably qualified to teach independently then an insurer will not cover you, even if you're just giving a few tips to family and friends.
What you probably do need to be very careful about when you're working for a ski school, is that they as an employer are suitably insured to cover your personal liability. BASI members have the "back up" of liability insurance with current membership, so if their employer's insurance fails (e.g. they forgot to pay the premium) then they are covered.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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beanie1, have you read the dialogue which every one else clearly has.
Qualified to teach independently with a Canadian qualification. It's obtaining the insurance which is in question.
I will seeking who BASI use and also (just thought) as a school teacher my local authority has covered me to instruct on my school trips, so i can check who they too use.
flangesax, I totally agree. I refused any form of payment / gift for this reason
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1969jma, What level Canadian qualification do you hold?
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You know it makes sense.
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1969jma, One option could be to find out if your Canadian qualification would let you get an IVSI licence through UK Snowsports, then join Snowsport England to use their insurance.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rjs, good shout !
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Poster: A snowHead
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1969jma,
Before you work independently you will need to register with the country you want to work in, and in some cases with the area (e.g. within Austria). They will check your qualification before giving you consent to work there. Whichever insurance you go with you'll need to make sure you do this, or you risk them trying to get out of a claim.
My understanding is that the CISA L4 isn't recognised by FEMPS to work independently in the Euro group countries (within BASI it's L4 that's needed to work independently). In Switzerland you need to hold the Patente (top Swiss level) to work independently. Andorra may allow it, but you may have visa issues there (unless you are already legally entitled to work in Andorra). There might be some smaller nations, eg Bulgaria? that allow it, I can ask the BASI office the full answer if you wish?
There is some useful info here:
http://www.basi.org.uk/content/employment-switzerland.aspx
As rjs, said there are some exceptions for IVSI licenced instructors working with their own club, but I can't see Canada on the list of members:
http://www.ivsi.info/ivsi/page/360680691110469600_535531249413613832_535531249413613832,en.html
This is quite a hot topic at the moment, and BASI and other European governing bodies are working on it with Brussels, to introduce full recognition of each others' qualifications. Unfortunately this will only be relevant for Europeans with European qualifications.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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beanie1, does working mean a paid position or in my case voluntary work, maybe there is no difference.
With a local junior football club we turn up and coach football on a voluntary basis, we have public liability through the local FA
I can't believe there aren't indivuals out there working privately.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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1969jma, I know nothing about ski teaching and insurance, but surely, if you are simply giving advice and help as an unpaid "friend" you don't need any specific additional insurance? We probably all do that from time to time, or take a group down a slope they've never skied before, etc. We probably all have 3rd party insurance on our ordinary travel policies, which I have always assumed would cover me if a third party was injured and successfully demonstrated that it was my fault.
Indeed, if you DID have professional ski instructor insurance it would presumably be more difficult to prove that you weren't acting as an instructor, only as a friend?
My daughter is a sailing instructor and insured through RYA. I'm not a sailing instructor so even though I will sometimes be the most experienced member of a crew and therefore kind of "instructing" others, and certainly making decisions which could end in disaster, it never occurred to me that I should have professional insurance. Indeed, as I don't have the right qualifications, I probably couldn't get it anyway. My own boat insurance includes 3rd party (much the most important aspect, as the boat is worth about fourpence) but I guess I'm not insured if sailing on somebody else's boat (e.g. a charter). Maybe I should give it more thought? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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1969jma, I don't think it makes a difference if you're getting paid or not, but as pam w suggests, a few pointers to friends probably doesn't count as either. As long as your trust your friends not to sue you if they had an accident and considered it to be a result of something you said / somewhere you took them. I'm not a lawyer, but i would guess you are more vulnerable to this as a qualified instructor, than with no qualifications at all... (This is just my musings, not BASI's view). Perhaps a lawyer could comment.
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With a local junior football club we turn up and coach football on a voluntary basis, we have public liability through the local FA
I can't believe there aren't indivuals out there working privately.
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There are, but they need to meet the minimum qualifications of the place they're working, and get permission from the local authority. Does the FA have any rules about who can coach? Even if just a first aid course, or something like that?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can't believe there aren't indivuals out there working privately.
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Of course there are, and they are doing it either with the correct qualifications and permissions or they are doing it illegally,
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With a local junior football club we turn up and coach football on a voluntary basis, we have public liability through the local FA
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You may find ski clubs that would offer you a similar set-up but this is a completely different scenario and discipline.
And analogies are useless against facts... would you take your friends and family along to the fottball club to coach them at the same time that a paid-for session is running at the other end of the pitch?...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm not a sailing instructor so even though I will sometimes be the most experienced member of a crew and therefore kind of "instructing" others, and certainly making decisions which could end in disaster, it never occurred to me that I should have professional insurance. Indeed, as I don't have the right qualifications, I probably couldn't get it anyway. My own boat insurance includes 3rd party (much the most important aspect, as the boat is worth about fourpence) but I guess I'm not insured if sailing on somebody else's boat (e.g. a charter). Maybe I should give it more thought? |
In France and other part of Europe my understanding is that for some sports (including Snowsports) the most experienced member of the group has a legal responsibility for the other group members, and can be held accountable should bad things happen. I'm pretty sure there have been threads on here which have mentioned it in passing.
It could be that joining a (ski) club and taking advantage of the (SSE) club insurance might be a good idea if this is correct.
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I can't believe there aren't indivuals out there working privately.
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Of course there are, and they are doing it either with the correct qualifications and permissions or they are doing it illegally,
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With a local junior football club we turn up and coach football on a voluntary basis, we have public liability through the local FA
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You may find ski clubs that would offer you a similar set-up but this is a completely different scenario and discipline.
And analogies are useless against facts... would you take your friends and family along to the fottball club to coach them at the same time that a paid-for session is running at the other end of the pitch?...
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| In France and other part of Europe my understanding is that for some sports (including Snowsports) the most experienced member of the group has a legal responsibility for the other group members, and can be held accountable should bad things happen. I'm pretty sure there have been threads on here which have mentioned it in passing. |
And, indeed, in the UK. This has been covered from time to time in Summit, the magazine of the British Mountaineering Council (BMC). On my L1 I met a young woman who refused to go on outings of her university climbing club specifically because she had a Single Pitch Award (SPA) and could be held negligent if someone had an accident - even if she wasn't actually instructing them. If you see someone doing something dangerous then you are legally (and morally) bound to point out to them their error.
It strikes me that having a Canadian licence will identify you as an 'expert' and open up just this sort of problem.
And don't just rely on an 'understanding' between friends. If they are unfortunate enough to die in an accident then their relatives may well not be party to the understanding and will likely sue.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A mine field eh!
Perhaps the easiest thing is for me not to instruct at all, tell the family to stump up for a ski school instructor
I was just trying to save them some ££'s. I can now just ski. Offpiste anyone
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FAQ
's who are trying to or have worked their way up the appropriate systems to be able to teach may get a little bit annoyed. 
