 Poster: A snowHead
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Earlier today, saw a pair of WhiteDot Directors on the ex-demo page on Edge and Wax, and the offer was too good to turn down. Tried to buy them on the finance, got referred (standard!) and whilst checking back, the ski's are now displaying out of stock.. Is this because I tried to buy them, or have they since gone do people reckon?
If they've gone, rubbish, and well done to whoever got them - but how do I cancel the finance?! Slightly pooing myself that I'll be lumped with finance I don't really want or need if I can't get the Directors. Anyone been here before? Anyone help?!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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joe1890, Scotty from Edge & Wax comes on here, he'll probably see this and respond.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Colin B, cheers mate.. was a slightly impulse purchase (or attempted purchase!) but due to budget had to go finance route, and now I'm in a reet mess over it haha!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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joe1890, it should be possible to cancel the finance if they don't have the skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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joe1890, Why not IM him, scottydog
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Colin B, probably the best idea - was concious about not messaging regarding work on here.. plus couldn't remember his username 
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joe1890, Edge and Wax/Scotty Dog are top notch, straight and 100% reliable. If you have a problem, the website has a telephone number. Why don't you use it and simply call him?
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Jivebaby, cause they were shut and I was panicking! Will call today, seems like a much better plan... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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joe1890, Just calm down, if your application has been referred nothing has gone through yet. Even so you still have a 14 day cooling off period.
Don't worry, just grab a beer and relax
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ricfrench, have now coffee'd and calmed-especially with an email confirming finance has been accepted, and another from edge and wax confirming the order. Panic over, and massive thanks to  's for replying and putting my mind at ease!
Now to get out on them! Fridge time soon methinks...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As one who has ridden them a lot over the past season, I should warn U that a fridge is not the best environment to test Directors.
They are IMHO a pretty specialist ski which really come into their own (to a "bouncy bouncy WOOHOO!" degree) in deeper snow.
On-piste? Let's just say "U put up with them".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Don’t worry about it, as ricfrench says you have a couple of weeks to cancel the finance.
Next bit (I know the is blasphemy to some SH’s  ) now you don’t have to pay for the huge planks you could use the cash for some lessons, then you wouldn't need them in the first place.
I can, sort of, understand laying out for a pair of wide-uns if you’re intending to do a season in japan, west coast of canada or US, etc, but how many people "really" need em. Most people would be better off with a normal set of all-mountain’s. In fact I would go as far as to say that many people are being held back by their trying to ski on inappropriate skis.
I ski quite a bit each year and I don’t have a set of ski for each type of snow (suppose I could get a quiver though). I try to get a couple of sets that will do for most conditions; e.g european piste / european off piste. So like Admin says (in his own polite way) white dots (and the like) are sod all use for either, except in very specific conditions.
Am waiting for the howls of indignation and accusations of sacrilegious posting 
PS – Last year I followed Admin down from the top of Tignes and videoed him all the way over some soft, some firm, on/off piste, etc. He was having a brill time, he looked in control, was going at a fair speed, got on to the edges when needed, etc, etc (as a virtual BASI 5 is meant to  ). Basically doing fine. Why? He was skiing on normal all-mountain skis. On a set of white dots he would have come a cropper. But to bring it back a bit, he simply wouldn’t have had so much fun, ain’t that what it’s all about ?
Maybe he will post the video if enough people ask ????
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Wayne, What would you say was the max waist for an all mountain ski?
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You know it makes sense.
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radar I think you’re misunderstanding what the difference is. I know when you go on a SH’s bash it a sort of “my skis are fatter than you skis” thing, but that not really the point – maybe admin will run a few evening chats during one of the bashes with someone to explain the difference – with the proviso that the someone is not trying to flog something to everyone in sight.
All mountain skis are designed with no specific purpose other than to ski around anywhere and everywhere. Of course this “jack of all trades, master of none” means there will have to be some compromises. Your AM skis will need more side cut that a set of GS’s, you’ll need a wider under underfoot area for the fresh snow than a standard set of carvers. Etc etc.
For your off piste monsters the usual thing is to stiffen up the insides and spread the weight out over a larger area so that people without enough technique can go off piste and sort of look as if they can ski. Ski manufactures know this which is why they make such stupidly wide skis. Mind you, recently there has been a move to keep the same parabolic shape but still try and increase the underfoot area, so you end up with something the BBR’s.
But it’s not just about width (yeah I know someone will, it’s too easy) it also about how much of the base it in contact with the snow. If you’re on piste there is not too much reason for rockers (and yes I did see you in Tignes – LoL, you know who you are) if you can control the skis, but off piste rockers do come into their own, which again reduces the need for too much width.
This is just me – my off piste skis are K2 Press's Here, length 169 – yep I know they are a bit short for back country stuff but I’m not too bad at skiing so don’t really need to be Dotting here and there , also I got em short as I like em in the bumps + there's a lot of trees n stuff round our way ?. Note there is still some sidecut
My on piste ones are stockli stormrider-78's Here (I got a pair of 174’s last year in Tignes but have also got a pair of 166’s which I like much better for my style (or lack of it) skiing – so if anyone wants a pair of 174’s, used for only 4 days, make me an offer )
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 5-06-12 8:06; edited 2 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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5 jars of Marmalade
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wayne, yeah I do agree there does seem to be a tendency for going for massively wide skis for European skiing etc - did see in Sauze (bearing in mind we were told off-pisteing was illegal unless for comps) one bloke on K2 Hellbents and another on Salomon Rocker 2's..
I've just heard some good things about the Directors, and they look like a lot of a laugh. Planning ahead, I'm attempting to organise a season either in Chamonix as a DIY job, or maybe with Nonstop in Fernie (angry non-skiing girlfriend still needs convincing that it's worth going skiing for a season instead of a house deposit ). So touch wood I'll get some proper use out of them!
So the idea is my "quiver" is a pair of the CoreUpt Dirty Fitzwilliams as an every day ski, then Directors for off piste and powder days. Did have to work quite hard to talk myself out of Redeemers. But then I realised I'm just no where near good enough to get anywhere NEAR the use out of a ski that fat!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Wayne wrote: |
I know when you go on a SH’s bash it a sort of “my skis are fatter than you skis” thing, but that not really the point
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That couldn't be further from the truth
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PS – Last year I followed Admin down from the top of Tignes and videoed him all the way over some soft, some firm, on/off piste, etc. He was having a brill time, he looked in control, was going at a fair speed, got on to the edges when needed, etc, etc (as a virtual BASI 5 is meant to Toofy Grin ). Basically doing fine. Why? He was skiing on normal all-mountain skis. On a set of white dots he would have come a cropper. But to bring it back a bit, he simply wouldn’t have had so much fun, ain’t that what it’s all about ?
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Wayne, I suspect U know U are, to quite some degree, talking a load of bolllox but since you seem to be directing some of this at me, I'll respond anyway
U filmed me in Tignes, before the snow arrived, when there was only glacier and the run home to be had. I didn't ski off-piste at all during filming and anyway the off piste, what there was of it, was as hard packed as the piste itself, the only difference being the extra rocks to dodge. In such conditions the Kneissl White Star slalom skis I was on where totally perfect. Hence my obvious enjoyment. It's true that there, the Directors would have been hard work but those were the opposite conditions to those for which they are designed.
However, the Kneissls would have been a right pain at, for example, the EoSB where we had powder above our knees on-piste (and somewhat deeper off). There, the Directors were so perfect that even the people following me were getting excited by them. Similarly in the varied conditions of the SOPiB, the directors were perfectly appropriate and handled themselves fine.
I can see, looking at your link, that your off-piste skis have a wider tail than the Directors. A nice big flare in the tail is going to be a great help if you're prone to riding your tails when it gets deep but the rocker of The Directors makes that much less necessary. You should maybe try them some time.
OK, I could ride slalom skis, or compromise 'all-mountain' skis like your K2's, off-piste in deep snow (indeed I have done) but to bring it back a bit, I simply wouldn’t have so much fun, ain’t that what it’s all about ?
The idea U seem to be espousing is that one should use the perfect ski on-piste to make it more fun but to use the right tool for the job off-piste is in some way cheating. I disagree.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| admin wrote: |
| Wayne wrote: |
| I know when you go on a SH’s bash it a sort of “my skis are fatter than you skis” thing, |
That couldn't be further from the truth |
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, think I'll agree to disagree on that one.
| admin wrote: |
| since you seem to be directing some of this at me, I'll respond anyway |
I was using your skiing as proof that for someone who can ski well (like you) fat skis would have been a hindrance.
Oh wel, (didn't think I'd have to go over this again) the point was that you were skiing down some "stuff" that would equate to what most people do on holiday. Bit of piste, bit of off (just), bit of firm, bit of...... you get what I mean. Generally just whizzing around the place.
I have seen shed loads of people doing just that and they are being held back by their "my skis are fatter than yours" frame of mind.
| admin wrote: |
| The idea U seem to be espousing is that one should use the perfect ski on-piste to make it more fun but to use the right tool for the job off-piste is in some way cheating. I disagree. |
No I’m not (again as you know) I'm saying that people should use the right skis for the job. The job being, 99% of the time, to have a holiday. If this includes a little bit of (just) off piste then fine, but this still doesn’t give a genuine reason for buying a set of Dots.
Cheating doesn't come into it. If people think that by buying this or that gear they can improve their skiing ability then fine - again, go for it.
| admin wrote: |
| I can see, looking at your link, that your off-piste skis have a wider tail than the Directors.. |
That's not the point, and you know it; even if you were right about the flare (which you ain’t – 6mm can’t be described as “flare” even to make a SH’s point). Anyway you're wrong about the tails; my K2's are 115 and the Directors are 121
Oh well as I said I'm not an expert on stupidly fat skis, never needed to learn, anyway didn't have time as I spent my time learning to ski. 
There "are" times and condidtions when Dots and the like are fine, in fact better than fine, you're better off with em, but how many people "really" need to buy a set on the off-chance that they will come accross those conditions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wayne, sneering at fat skis is so 2005.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Anyway you're wrong about the tails; my K2's are 115 and the Directors are 121
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erm... only if you're riding the Directors switch!
K2 Recoil = 90 underfoot => 115 tail ie. +25mm "flare" 
Whitedot Director = 107 underfoot => 111 (widest) => 107 tail ie. +4mm
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wayne we know you're a BASI god n all but do you not think it's a little patronising to assume everyone on snowheads is a standard incompetent British holiday skier (SIBHS) who doesn't know any better than to buy stuff idiots on a website recommend. It's also a little unfair on the whitedot guys who make some pretty tasty kit for the right applications and those who know how to use it.
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This is where I think it is actually impossible for a pro skier like Wayne to actually really get how much difference fatter skis can make in real powder conditions because he can ski fast and fluently in any conditions on any skis.
For the rest of us there can be a real difference. Over the last 27 years I've skied decent powder on skis with widths from 68 to 128 mm. And it does make a difference. For me the best compromise seems to be 105-115mm. I am not a great skier, doing only 2-4 weeks a year. And at the speeds I ski at, with my weight, a bit of float is welcome.
And when I've been in Utah and seen serious chaps in the line waiting for first tracks on a powder day, 90% were on really fat skis. Now are they all fashion victims? Or is Wayne anti stuff other than ski lessons which might improve people's skiing and enjoyment ?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 5-06-12 8:31; edited 1 time in total
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Worry not, our site is very clever, allocates stock and therefore are showing out of stock as they are allocated to you 
And my 10p, these are my personal ex demo skis and quite simply a stunning all mountain ski. I was happily cruising down blues, reds and blacks in St Anton with them at Christmas as well as diving off the sides. All testers here rate the Directors as a superb ski, and staff were trying to buy these off me before I put them on the website. As we have a pretty unlimited choice on skis when the boss of the business and ski testers/staff own or want a ski, it's a bit special!
Enjoy those skis!
ScottyDog
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't worry scottydog, I will enjoy them, that's a given! Purely out of interest, are these the exact skis (and reviewer?!) from the youTube vid that Edge and Wax have put on there about the directors? If so, you did seem to be waxing lyrical about them, was definitely a reason I went for them!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Fwiw it's easy to ski perfect powder on most skis, where the specialist skis with rocker and width come into their own IMHO is in less than perfect off piste conditions, crud, tracked out lumpy stuff etc.
Fwiw my last weeks ski holiday I drove, so bought my quiver  2 days avoiding pistes in fresh snow on my wide skis, the rest skiing with the family doing a bit of everything on 78mm skis...
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| scottydog wrote: |
| All testers here rate the Directors as a superb ski, and staff were trying to buy these off me before I put them on the website. As we have a pretty unlimited choice on skis when the boss of the business and ski testers/staff own or want a ski, it's a bit special! |
In that case I've a pair of Directors with 9 1/2 days on them if anyone is interested. I'm in rehab after ACL surgery which sort of makes them surplus to requirements for next season. PM me if interested.
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You know it makes sense.
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To be fair, the Directors are going to be the first foray into anything other than 1 week on rental skis at 13, then a second hand pair of salomon lords, which are now slightly battered.
Just seemed to be what I was after as (whilst I could undoubtedly do with some lessons, who couldn't?!) I want to start doing more backcountry and off piste stuff. I'm comfortable on all the pisted runs I've experienced, although my tekkers (if an instructor was looking at it) is probably crap, the product of being a self taught skier with only 4 days of lessons on a school trip 10 years ago!
Heard far too many good things about the Directors to turn them down at a silly low price. I can always "grow" into them so to speak.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So glad I asked 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| joe1890 wrote: |
| Don't worry scottydog, I will enjoy them, that's a given! Purely out of interest, are these the exact skis (and reviewer?!) from the youTube vid that Edge and Wax have put on there about the directors? If so, you did seem to be waxing lyrical about them, was definitely a reason I went for them! |
Yes they are
ScottyDog
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| scottydog wrote: |
| All testers here rate the Directors as a superb ski, and staff were trying to buy these off me before I put them on the website. As we have a pretty unlimited choice on skis when the boss of the business and ski testers/staff own or want a ski, it's a bit special! |
In that case I've a pair of Directors with 9 1/2 days on them if anyone is interested. I'm in rehab after ACL surgery which sort of makes them surplus to requirements for next season. PM me if interested. |
Sadly I start the lengthy process of knee cartilage transplantation tomorrow so share your short term absence from the mountains 
Good luck with yours!
ScottyDog
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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scottydog, Good luck with yours too. So far, so good for me - I think !!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Damn, must be a trend. I go under the knife in Aug.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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scottydog, I didn't realise that was available in UK, I assume this isn't the NHS? Asking as both my knees are shot and trimming edges isn't going to work again.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dot., Good luck ! What's yours ?
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Ghost Dog, I wonder if you are talking about 2 different things...
Usually edge trimming is of the medium and lateral menisci - commonly known as the "cartilages" - but it isn't really the correct term. see here
scottydog, may be talking about articular cartilage grafting - commonly done under the NHS for defects in the weight-bearing surfaces of the bones in the knee joint. see here
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| Dot., Good luck ! What's yours ? |
Just a "flush and grind" nothing too serious.
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Hi, it's Vitro knee cartilage transplantation, pretty new but CAN be done on NHS. 2 locations offering I that I am aware of, Stanmore (Mr Skinner) and Birmingham. I can confirm It is available on the NHS for eligible patients.
First step is arthroscopy. A small piece of my cartilage is removed from a safe area about 5mm diameter.
This is then sent to Germany (Bosch!) where the cells are harvested in a sample of my blood grown on a mesh matrix
increasing the count by 10,000 times in effect growing cartilage. At 6 weeks this is rushed over to Stanmore, and I then have open knee surgery.
There are a couple of methods for the next step but I believe that for me the mesh will be bonded to the affected area, and will further mesh with my bone and local tissue.
All sounds fun. I will be setting up a blog in this from our website so people can see what it is all about and whether it would work for them, or indeed works! Seems to be around 87% success rate at the moment which for a relatively new procedure is promising.
It's not a quick fix, think 16 months before I will be skiing again fingers crossed!
ScottyDog
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FAQ
at 17 and 19. Really shouldn't be skiing.
