 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think that might actually be a landslide Stanton? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Either way, it's scarily impressive - check out the faultlines under and around the barn at the end!
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It isnt an avalanche 
Still pretty impressive. When was this and where?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hmm. Presumably caused by the spring thaw. Begs the question of whether a similar slide would be possible in spring snow conditions, with water from a thaw managing to get down into ground below snow?
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achilles, it can and does happen, years ago the railway line below Wengen was cut when a mudslide took out the tracks, that was caused by snow thaw, in the one above however it looks like a very substantial slide, possibly caused by water but also I guess possibly caused by ground conditions or seismic activity, I'm guessing that the slide in the video was triggered by a previous slide which is in evidence at the top of the frame
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
It isnt an avalanche
Still pretty impressive. When was this and where? |
Technically an avalanche doesn't have to be snow, and I think can include rock.
/Semantics
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
It isnt an avalanche
Still pretty impressive. When was this and where? |
Technically an avalanche doesn't have to be snow, and I think can include rock.
/Semantics |
An avalanche DOES have to consist of snow or ice. If its earth and rock, its called a landslide.
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If we believe in the Internet the definition of avalanche is "A fall or slide of a large mass, as of snow or rock, down a mountainside", as reported here.
I suppose in most avalanches there will have to be some rock and soil accompanying the fall although we are used to seeing the bottom a heap of mainly the white stuff.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
It isnt an avalanche
Still pretty impressive. When was this and where? |
Technically an avalanche doesn't have to be snow, and I think can include rock.
/Semantics |
An avalanche DOES have to consist of snow or ice. If its earth and rock, its called a landslide. |
Nope. An avalanche is a generic term, and can be a landslide or snow avalanche or ice avalanche or mud avalanche.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/avalanche
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Isn't the difference between an avalanche and a slide as much about the movement as the material? Seem to remember soil/rock avalanches were faster than soil/rock slides or something like that.... actually that's probably nonsense - I wasn't a big fan of Geography at school!
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miranda, As I understand it, they are just different names for the same thing. A slow wet snow slide is still termed an avalanche, for instance.
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You know it makes sense.
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A slow slide is a slide or slip.
A fast slide is an avalanche.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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clarky999, I actually just went and googled as I was sure I remembered hearing that but couldn't remember whether it was at school or what (I think it must have been a few years ago helping someone cram for her Earth Sciences test in the US). It's just wikipedia so who knows but it says this:
| Quote: |
A debris avalanche is a type of slide characterized by the chaotic movement of rocks soil and debris mixed with water or ice (or both). They are usually triggered by the saturation of thickly vegetated slopes which results in an incoherent mixture of broken timber, smaller vegetation and other debris. Debris avalanches differ from debris slides because their movement is much more rapid. This is usually a result of lower cohesion or higher water content and commonly steeper slopes. Steep coastal cliffs can be caused by catastrophic debris avalanches. These have been common on the submerged flanks of ocean island volcanos such as the Hawaiian Islands and the Cape Verde Islands.
Movement
Debris slides generally start with big rocks that start at the top of the slide and begin to break apart as they slide towards the bottom. This is much slower than a debris avalanche. Debris avalanches are very fast and the entire mass seems to liquefy as it slides down the slope. This is caused by a combination of saturated material, and steep slopes. As the debris moves down the slope it generally follows stream channels leaving a v-shaped scar as it moves down the hill. This differs from the more U-shaped scar of a slump. Debris avalanches can also travel well past the foot of the slope due to their tremendous speed. |
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't have a physical geography dictionary to hand, but the few geography/geology sites I jsut looked at say that it should be called a slide when one cohesive unit is sliding over another (which I guess would normally be slower due to friction, but that's a secondary point), as opposed to debris flow where it all gets churned up (and presumably moves faster). I can't find any source saying a flow needs to be over a certain speed to be classed as an avalanche, or what that speed should be - basically they seem to define avalanche as a form of 'sudden mass wastage/debris movement,' which could be rocks/snow/whatever, and also (volcanic) pyroclastic flow.
There is some relativity in there, and you couldn't term, say, snowpack creep/glide as an avalanche (really slow), but the one in the video definitely fits the definition, as would (to my mind anyway) late season wet snow slides/avalanches.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| I can't find any source saying a flow needs to be over a certain speed to be classed as an avalanche, or what that speed should be |
Yes, I don't think speed was the defining factor but I'm sure the point was that the terms avalanche and slide are not always interchangeable and that it is the movement rather than just material that makes the difference (with the difference affecting speed rather than the difference being speed). Either way, no need to at the OP for calling it an avalanche!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Does it matter? Still a lot of 5hit falling down a hill no matter what it's called. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Can we have a vote on it please? Maybe we'll get a landslide.
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Sorry for finding the question of what makes an avalanche an avalanche and what makes a slide a slide interesting... actually, not sorry as you all post tedious crap on here too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The base of the cliff is at 250 meters altitude, it is on the south side of the Swiss Alps, there is no snow or ice there, either at the base or higher up. No permafrost. Nothing remotely icy or snowy.
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| miranda wrote: |
| Sorry for finding the question of what makes an avalanche an avalanche and what makes a slide a slide interesting... actually, not sorry as you all post tedious crap on here too. |
+1
Don't really get the problem..?
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We can agree that avalanche is a mass of material sliding down from the mountain and it should have snow in it, otherwise we call it landslide if there is only soil, mud and water.
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No, doesn't have to have snow! See:
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=rock+avalanche&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 20-05-12 21:51; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| davidof wrote: |
| The base of the cliff is at 250 meters altitude, it is on the south side of the Swiss Alps, there is no snow or ice there, either at the base or higher up. No permafrost. Nothing remotely icy or snowy. |
I was just wondering about the height ...
Thank you 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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legue,
Yes , i didnt look in that section 
Loosen up folk , it is a slide! These rock slides happen all year round,
However, this year in the summer the Alps are expected to erode and you will see alot more,
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Jesus christ - another six months of this...
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You know it makes sense.
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| 8611 wrote: |
| Jesus christ - another six months of this... |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| 8611 wrote: |
| Jesus christ - another six months of this... |
I really don't understand what the problem is here. I find this stuff interesting, if you don't, maybe don't bother reading, or posting pointless comments. At least this thread is about mountain stuff.
But hey ho.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Elston wrote: |
| 8611 wrote: |
| Jesus christ - another six months of this... |
. |
Honestly... I don't get it... what's the problem with people who spend a lot of time in the mountains thinking about whether slides and avalanches are different phenomena and, if so how - especially when one of them is a Geographer?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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clarky999,  cross post
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Folks I know the difference between a Lawine & Bergsturz. I put Avalanche to draw attention to the post
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm not bemoaning the thread, I'm bemoaning the lack of snow that's leading to the thread. Or rather, since there is apparently fresh snow still, the lack of lifts that are leading to the snow that is leading to the thread. 
Really I just want to skiing again. Roll on the 'is it to early for the OMG there's no snow' thread 2012 imo.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is a great thread!
If it wasn't for avalanches, and OP was as safe as Disneyland, it wouldn't be the same. The fact that you risk your life engenders a morbid fascinatiion. I am passing the time to next ski season by reading books about avalanches
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You reckon the owner of that barn will be able to renew his insurance?
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sanman, shouldn't think so, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that barn and the other buildings near it being dismantled and moved elsewhere
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