Which GPS for Skiing

A snowHead

Thinking about getting a GPS for touring mainly as a safety backup to maps and compasses..

Garmin eTrex seems pretty good but which model?

10, 20 or 30 ?

A snowHead

Follow the FlyingStantoni:

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1945094

I've had a Foretrex 201 for years now. I wear it on my wrist and download it to MemoryMap to generate all the maps in my trip reports. My tips are: look for something with either AA or AAA batteries - easier to change if you're away for a while; look for a simple black and white (not greyscale) screen - easier to read in very bright sunlight.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

altis,

thanks for the link... seems though that technology has moved on a touch since then and the etrex now come with mapping screens and without a big price penalty... £150 ish is my budget

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I'd be wary of ones with built-in maps. Yes, they're easier to use BUT check if mapping is available for the area you are going to and how much does it cost. Also, check how sunlight-readable the screen is. Whilst monchrome screens are often reflective (think LCD calculator), colour screens are transmissive or transflective. This requires a backlight (which increases power consumption) and tends to get less readable in bright sunlight. And when we are skiing it can be VERY bright.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_display

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

altis, fair points... for a test i tried using my iphone with motionX which is great for walking to the pub but useless in the bright sun on Mount Vallon.

I am thinking less of the GPS as a recorder of tracks but more a get out of jail card if the weather closes in... I dont particularly want to have to data enter points manually but would like to be able to turn around retreat and follow the breadcrumb path... or use the map display to correlate to my real map and planned route so i could press on...

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Personally, I'd bet getting the eTrex 30, since it has the Barometric Altimeter and the Electronic Compass. I use it for more than Skiing, MTBing etc. though.
think it's out of that suggested budget.

20+30 do mapping? Built in maps on my Vista (predecessor of the 30 I guess) are minimal. Less than minimal in fact. I tend to load OpenStreetmap maps on to the microSD card, which for me have been more than adequate, but in mountainous back country that may not be the case. I've not used an etrex 20/30 yet so don't know the score there.

10 does not do mapping. I wouldn't use that for anything more than tracking where you've been, and guiding towards pre-defined waypoints (eg carpark, hotel, etc.)
20 looks a pretty good compromise, if you don't need accurate barometric altimeter.

2x AA batteries are (imho) essential. You can carry 2 spares, unlike those with built-in LI-Ion etc. (and iPhones, Android phones, etc.) Of course maps don't have batteries to go flat.

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I use the Vista HCx, having the barometric altimeter in it is very handy. It spends 99% of the time off in the top pocket of my bag though and I've never bothered with the mapping mode.

After all it is free

meh, I have a watch based barometric altimeter which i reset at each spot point on the map, couldnt see updating the GPS one as well... How do you find the colour screen in bright sunlight?

andy, on a quick read of the website looks like you can order maps for france etc plus OS UK maps

Yep, my ancient Foretrex does breadcrumbs too - I think all Garmins are capable of this.

If you're into off-the-cuff off-piste forrays then I can see the advantage of having a 1:25K map in the device. You can quickly tell where you are and which direction to head in.

If you're more likely to follow pre-planned routes then I'd recommend getting some mapping software and sticking with a more basic device. It's much easier to bash in a series of waypoints on the PC and download them to the device. Then print out the map, complete with waypoints, onto Toughprint paper at whatever scale is convenient. As you are travelling along the device will tell you how far, and in which direction, is the next waypoint. You can quickly use this to work out where you are on the printed map. Or just use the grid reference if you are really flumoxed - although this is slower. Something like this technique served us well on our recent tour round Mont Thabor and the viz was pretty bad at times:

Batteries:
When I'm on day trips and can reach the mains every night then I'll tend to use Sanyo Eneloops in my gadgets. These rechargables have a very low self-discharge rate and are much more reliable than the old NiMh cells:
http://www.eneloop.info/

Away from the mains I'll take Energizer Ultimate Lithiums. They are incredibly light, hold more juice than any other AA (or AAA) and work down to -40C:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l92.pdf

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

altis, do you have to enter the waypoints as numeric coordinates on your pc or can you point and click on the map on screen ? good tip on the map paper hadnt heard of that... wondering if the E20 would offer both functionality must review further...

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No, no, it's just point and click. And you can zoom in or out and change mapping scales while you're about it. I even have satellite images of the French Alps at 1:25K so I can pick my way round (big) rocks too. Dead easy!

I've just taken a screenshot of my MemoryMap. The track we actually took is in red and the waypoints and route that I set up beforehand are in blue. It probably took me half an hour to enter them but most of that time was zooming in and out picking the best place for a waypoint. It really is a powerful combination.

This is at 1:250K to show the whole trip. I can zoom in or out with the scroll-wheel and change the map scale with the '+ scale' and '- scale' buttons.

I wouldn't consider keying waypoints directly into the device except in desparation. At least it starts by giving you the current reference so, often, it just requires a bit of editing. It's still tedious though.

And for ultimate wow-factor I can even do a 3D fly-by of our track:

snow reports

altis, sold !! map sware looks really good... unless somebody else comes up with another idea a Garmin Etrax 20 is on my shopping list.... (and some paper and batteries) top tips !!

skimottaret, the MemoryMap software is separate and doesn't come with the Garmin. It's about £100 for software + mapping of the whole of GB at 1:50K and about £40 for software + mapping of the French Alps to 1:25K. You can get the whole of GB at 1:25K too but this is expensive. I have a phone that runs on Pocket PC and I can run a cut-down version on that too. Fun to play with but useless outdoors. They also do their own hardware (check link) but, IIRC, this has a poor battery life.

PM me an email address and I'll send you some scans of a recent Trail mag where they did a review of some of the higher end devices.

You know it makes sense.

that toughprint paper looks really good

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

skimottaret, to be honest I rarely use it in good visibility, much preferring to use a map and compass. I can't remember bright light ever being an issue though. It'd be a bit of a fatal design flaw for a GPS unit designed for outdoor use!

A snowHead

altis, Garmin have something called Base Camp sware which is a free download and french OS maps are £20 looks on first glance to have lots of functionality.. email is scott at insideoutskiing.com

A snowHead

kat.ryb, seconded, it looks amazing in the promo video.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

kat.ryb: expensive, but yes, it's good. I often use it when I'm out fell running in the UK. Using both sides, I'll usually print out the area that I'm interested in for the weekend then just carry it round rolled up in my hand. No matter what the weather it usually comes back in a reusable state. The only problem is that, depending on the area, you can miss out the grid numbers. I usually end up writing them down the side with an inedible pen.

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I use memorymap and trace my route on the map beforehand, then download it onto my ancient etrex as way points. I always like to do a fly thru of the route so I can visualise the shape of the hills etc.

Which reminds me my new windows 7 computer doesn't like the usb to serial converter I use to communicate with said ancient equipment. I must do soemthing about it before the new season.

As for maps and climbing guides I have taken to printing them out, then laminating them, and punching a small hole so they can be carried around the neck.

Oddly I find map, compass and altimeter more use and more reliable than GPS.

skimottaret, when using the GPS just to get coordinates make sure that it is set for the same map projection and datum as the map.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

skimottaret, In true shop assistant style, "what does sir want to do with it".

I have used a Garmin vista cx a lot cycling and also a bit for skiing, and an iPhone gps app with ign mapping.

Last season I only used my Iphone with some French ign mapping, the phone was excellent, showing your position exactly on a 50 000/25 000 map, interestingly it highlighted minor inaccuracies in the position of the blue ski tracks marked on the ign maps. The huge shortcoming of the iPhone is the battery life, I have a supplemental battery in a slip case and also a solar charger, but I had to keep the gps switched off and only used it to find my position as a one off and not to track progress for downloading later.

The vista has a battery life of about ten hours and it's simple to carry a couple of spare AAs. You can leave it on to track a days efforts, also create routes on a pc and upload it to guide you on a tour. The maps for the Garmin are extra and not cheap, plus you really need two lots of maps, one for the pc and also vector maps for the unit. The more modern gps units take proper maps, but I haven't used those.

So if you want something to record continually a dedicated unit is the way to go but be aware of the mapping costs. To supplement a map and compass with highly accurate positioning an iPhone is great and cheap if you already have the phone.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Garmin maps of Europe are FREE, http://www.wanderreitkarte.de/garmin_de.php
Found this thanks to Lou Dawson over at wildsnow, he's such a legend

Edit: also, if you can't stomach memory map prices, for the UK you can use walkhighlands.co.uk free GPS planner does 1:50 and 1:25 if you register (free)

After all it is free

dsoutar, 90% of the time you won't need the GPS and can navigate by map, compass and eye. Navigating inside a white-out and it's much nicer to be able to get confirmation about where you think you are before you walk off a cliff. I find it odd when people are obsessively checking their GPS track on a superbly clear day, if you can't terrain associate at a trot you shouldn't be allowed outdoors. Toofy Grin

dsoutar, I don't know about GPSs blowing away in the wind but maps certainly do, as I know to my cost when I was leading a school group in the Lakes and one of the kids allowed a map to blow into the middle of a large tarn. Fortunately it wasn't our only copy so I didn't have to throw him in after it!

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Which GPS for Skiing

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